No energy/Fatigue

[Deadpool99]

What "supplement/meds are you taking to "guarantee" a raise in hdl?

I am taking out my cholesterol supplements and using low dose of Pitavastatin. More cost effective and more clinically effective when I blast. I take like 3-4 supplements for my lipids (like citrus bergamot/red yeast rice, beta-sitosterol)

It improves insulin sensitivity, doesn't deplete coq10, almost zero mitochondrial toxicity, and doesn't impact performance, although a bit more expensive but cheaper than 3 different supps.

 

[Jin23]

You can sleep 10h and still be tired, you should do a sleep study, it is possible that you don't have enough REM sleep.

You probably meant to say slow wave sleep, ie. NREM3 / 4. Sleep quality however is determined by more then just the amount of different sleep phases ...

 

[Jin23]

CBC:
- RBC is the first time it has ever been elevated, seems like a one off, thought it's barley out of range.
- My MCH and MCHC is genetic, always has been low, hereditary from parents.

Lipids:
- HDL is a bit low but I am introducing a new supplement/med that would guarantee an increase back to normal
Overall: Cholesterol ratio is good

Liver:
- My natty bassline has always been a tad bit above reference, even when I'm on anavar (haven't been in 20weeks) it says fairly the same.
- Recent exercise increase it a bit, I have tested before a day vs 4 days after my last exercise, usually drops 10-15 points.

Kidney:
- Excellent, chloride and CO2 are like 1mmol/L off reference

Prolactin:
- Actually shocked it's low, haven't used caber.

E2:
- Lower than before, maybe the aggressive cut and lower bf leaded to me aromatizing less, def gonna get it up.

Cortisol and Ha1c:

- Excellent considering I'm using ksm-66 and also blasted HGH prior, rn on only 4ius of hgh

Conclusion:
- Overall the realization of my issues might be enhanced by my blood markers but are likely to be more mental, I do feel better as days pass, started to force my friends to take me out and helped alot.
- Def dropping my mast and making adjustments to get that e2 back to 50pg, although this isn't considered a tanked e2 but why not raise it.
- Prolactin is the only one that rly caught me off guard

There's a lot going on here. For starters I'd toss out the ash, it's a potent adaptogen and one that seldom leads to anhedonia, presumably due to issues with postsynaptic HT1a's, guessing downregulation. However the hpa axis modulation of ash is multifaceted, goes way beyond just ht1a receptors and if you are feeling sluggish, removing it from the equation is a low hanging fruit.

Seeing shbg would also be a plus as well as iron (TSAT, serum iron and ferritin) and some adrenal hormones. I can't speak to the genetic issues you mentioned, but having low oxygen utilisation is something that could lead to your issues.

The elisa test for e2 means little it could be lower it could be higher.

High liver enzymes could be interpreted as a sign of a taxed endocrine system.

You could also be overworked and in need of a deload, time away from the gym. Not to mention psychological issues. Your symptoms are in line with a "burned out nervous system". So focusing on rest isn't a bad idea. We get so used to being burned out we forget how it feels to be rested and it eventually becomes our normal. So focusing on removing neuro inflammation and resting might be the way to go ...

 

[sionnach]

I can't speak to the genetic issues you mentioned, but having low oxygen utilisation is something that could lead to your issues.

This was my takeaway also, particularly the low MCH/MCHC combined with your CO2, and probably warrants looking further into the (possibly rare) long term effects of your genetic condition with a specialist.

 

[Bandern]

Hey guys,
I have had fatigue building up where as soon as I wake up, I go to the gym then when I come home, boom zero energy and I feel sleepy and have no enjoyment, I used to be into gaming. Now I got a new installment of my favorite game coming out and don’t even care about it. Usually it’s the most anticipated moment of the year for me.

Sleeping 8 hours minimum, sometimes upto 10 hours. It was building up for a while, I have been like this for about 2 months, I used tren but it was kinda building up before tren, dropped my tren and still have the same feeling. When I was initially cutting, this wasn’t an issue then when I went back home on vacation and started eating around maintenance it started building up, so it’s clearly not diet (fully clean diet btw).

Has anyone experienced this weird lack of energy/enjoyment of life.

What’s your vagina intake like

 

[eryximachus]

Bupropion to my knowledge gives more baseline dopamine signaling so I get more motivation, enjoyment, “drive” come back online and more norepinephrine signaling which leads to improved energy, focus, alertness.

I thought its kinda safe to use cuz it does not flood the brain with dopamine like amphetamines (Adderall) do, so it doesn’t create euphoria or addiction and I don’t get any dependencies or withdrawal and doesn’t permanently change my brain chemistry like other meds and to my research upto this point no issues with blood markers/organs long term.

I think Trintellix should be the first line antidepressant these days.
The dopamine aspect of bupropion isn't really accurate. The drug also has anticholinergic activity, which long term increases dementia risk and in the short term can negatively impact cognition. There is a lot of evidence Trintellix improves cognition beyond remediating depression, probably because it interacts with histamine receptors like modafinil.

It also has a much lower risk of sexual side effects versus SSRIs.

 

[Deadpool99]

There's a lot going on here. For starters I'd toss out the ash, it's a potent adaptogen and one that seldom leads to anhedonia, presumably due to issues with postsynaptic HT1a's, guessing downregulation. However the hpa axis modulation of ash is multifaceted, goes way beyond just ht1a receptors and if you are feeling sluggish, removing it from the equation is a low hanging fruit.

Seeing shbg would also be a plus as well as iron (TSAT, serum iron and ferritin) and some adrenal hormones. I can't speak to the genetic issues you mentioned, but having low oxygen utilisation is something that could lead to your issues.

The elisa test for e2 means little it could be lower it could be higher.

High liver enzymes could be interpreted as a sign of a taxed endocrine system.

You could also be overworked and in need of a deload, time away from the gym. Not to mention psychological issues. Your symptoms are in line with a "burned out nervous system". So focusing on rest isn't a bad idea. We get so used to being burned out we forget how it feels to be rested and it eventually becomes our normal. So focusing on removing neuro inflammation and resting might be the way to go ...

I asked for sensitive E2 and the doctor said it was. (I went through a clinics, I get these under my insurance that way).

I changed the structure of my current cycle, so I’ll retest my total test, shbg, and do a sensitive E2 as well.

Also I think dropping the ASH is also a good idea. I also know my liver enzymes are elevated further more due to the timing of my blood test.

Thanks alot for ur input, really appreciate it.

 

[Ateam2023]

There's a lot going on here. For starters I'd toss out the ash, it's a potent adaptogen and one that seldom leads to anhedonia, presumably due to issues with postsynaptic HT1a's, guessing downregulation. However the hpa axis modulation of ash is multifaceted, goes way beyond just ht1a receptors and if you are feeling sluggish, removing it from the equation is a low hanging fruit.

Seeing shbg would also be a plus as well as iron (TSAT, serum iron and ferritin) and some adrenal hormones. I can't speak to the genetic issues you mentioned, but having low oxygen utilisation is something that could lead to your issues.

The elisa test for e2 means little it could be lower it could be higher.

High liver enzymes could be interpreted as a sign of a taxed endocrine system.

You could also be overworked and in need of a deload, time away from the gym. Not to mention psychological issues. Your symptoms are in line with a "burned out nervous system". So focusing on rest isn't a bad idea. We get so used to being burned out we forget how it feels to be rested and it eventually becomes our normal. So focusing on removing neuro inflammation and resting might be the way to go ...

I just bought so Ashwaganda from Now foods , its a good ratio of the necessary form of withanolides @11 mg per capsule and if i took 2 per day i could get a decent dose that might help my deep sleep that i lack so much in, over 50 crowd here, Just curious? Tia

 

[Deadpool99]

This was my takeaway also, particularly the low MCH/MCHC combined with your CO2, and probably warrants looking further into the (possibly rare) long term effects of your genetic condition with a specialist.

The genetic part is that I am naturally deficient in iron, which also leads to a low MCH/MCHC.

And my dumbass forgot to buy iron supplements when I came to the US.

Also the CO2 is like 1 mmol/l lower and I believe it could be due to my previous aggressive cut with clen. I did a big ass aggressive cut.

 

[Jin23]

I just bought so Ashwaganda from Now foods , its a good ratio of the necessary form of withanolides @11 mg per capsule and if i took 2 per day i could get a decent dose that might help my deep sleep that i lack so much in, over 50 crowd here, Just curious? Tia

I never recommend ash to anybody. It's ok when used sparingly, but on a continuous basis it's start being problematic.

Regarding increases in SWS, I'm not read up on literature, but mechanistically, ash is really multimodal, so it's hard to say how it will effect you. For me personally, I notice it's sedating effects combined with increases in acetylcholine, which means increases in all REM sleep parameters combined with sedation. A rather unpleasant combination. But ymmv ... Try and you'll see, however I don't recommend you use it continuously. The sedating effects also tend to fall of quickly ...

 

[Deadpool99]

I never recommend ash to anybody. It's ok when used sparingly, but on a continuous basis it's start being problematic.

Regarding increases in SWS, I'm not read up on literature, but mechanistically, ash is really multimodal, so it's hard to say how it will effect you. For me personally, I notice it's sedating effects combined with increases in acetylcholine, which means increases in all REM sleep parameters combined with sedation. A rather unpleasant combination. But ymmv ... Try and you'll see, however I don't recommend you use it continuously. The sedating effects also tend to fall of quickly ...

Great point, also come to think of it, taking my ash in the morning seems like a dumb move to begin with. At first when using it ofc I didn’t notice any sedation but with time it can be an issue for sure.

 

[Ateam2023]

I sure notice im groggy af in the morning from one pill of Ash, i dont like it but will continue to see how it does for my sleep aid

 

[Jin23]

I sure notice im groggy af in the morning from one pill of Ash, i dont like it but will continue to see how it does for my sleep aid

Just dont use it ed. Use it sparingly.

 

[Ateam2023]

Just dont use it ed. Use it sparingly.

i have some Glycine coming which sounds like a nice addition to my sleep stack

 

[Tbaz192]

Ash makes me very un emotional and bland. I feel literally nothing.
Definitely hits hard with the anhedonia and that was 500mg a day.
Unfortunately I’m part of the group that it’s too much & takes way too long to reregulate after getting off it.

I forgot it hits me so hard so I was taking it every night for the last month, now realizing after dropping nicotine cold turkey and taking ash. My mood and energy is dog shit. I’m on week one now of not taking either.

Careful yall.

 

[Jin23]

i have some Glycine coming which sounds like a nice addition to my sleep stack

Glycine is somewhat a double edged sword. On the one hand it acts as an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the suprachiasmatic nucleus, where it helps modulate the circadian clock’s activity: lowers body temp, increases melatonin release, etc. it prepares the body for sleep. It's also the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter in the spinal cord, and much of it's sedating properties come from this MOA.

However, it's also an NMDA co agonist, meaning, it increases excitatory neurotransmission, and it feels surprisingly dopaminergic. It's particularly mentally stabilizing (part of the reason why it's helpful for schizophrenia) but it can get a bit much with prolonged use, especially as the body adapts to it's inhibitory properties, ie. the initial drowsiness fades away. When that happens, your sleep will be cut short to about 4h upon which sleep will be very difficult. The 4h of sleep will feel more like 5 to 6, but alas, it wont be enough and you'll have to cut short the glycine use. YMMV ofc.

Alas, glycine also doesn't work for prolonged use.

With aas you want to lower the "ON" feeling and lower the excitatory HPA axis modulation. In other words, you need to focus on being chill and not directly on sleep. You should learn to listen to your body and mind so you'll know at which point of mental activation you wont be able to sleep. But keeping aas dosages at a reasonable level is the first step.

 

[Ateam2023]

Glycine is somewhat a double edged sword. On the one hand it acts as an inhibitory neurotransmitter in the suprachiasmatic nucleus, where it helps modulate the circadian clock’s activity: lowers body temp, increases melatonin release, etc. it prepares the body for sleep. It's also the primary inhibitory neurotransmitter in the spinal cord, and much of it's sedating properties come from this MOA.

However, it's also an NMDA co agonist, meaning, it increases excitatory neurotransmission, and it feels surprisingly dopaminergic. It's particularly mentally stabilizing (part of the reason why it's helpful for schizophrenia) but it can get a bit much with prolonged use, especially as the body adapts to it's inhibitory properties, ie. the initial drowsiness fades away. When that happens, your sleep will be cut short to about 4h upon which sleep will be very difficult. The 4h of sleep will feel more like 5 to 6, but alas, it wont be enough and you'll have to cut short the glycine use. YMMV ofc.

Alas, glycine also doesn't work for prolonged use.

With aas you want to lower the "ON" feeling and lower the excitatory HPA axis modulation. In other words, you need to focus on being chill and not directly on sleep. You should learn to listen to your body and mind so you'll know at which point of mental activation you wont be able to sleep. But keeping aas dosages at a reasonable level is the first step.

Always a pleasure your wealth of knowledge is, so basically , these two additions, Ash/glycine should only be ran for a "cycle" and not long term? What say about 3 months on , or something similar, listen to my body and mind etc,

 

[DoubleDeez]

Always a pleasure your wealth of knowledge is, so basically , these two additions, Ash/glycine should only be ran for a "cycle" and not long term? What say about 3 months on , or something similar, listen to my body and mind etc,

I mentioned how ash should be cycled in this thread:

From what I’ve read, it needs to be cycled. I take it on occasion but never for a long stretch.

It has the potential to cause liver damage under certain conditions (dosage, supplement quality, long-term usage.) Be careful.

 

[Jin23]

Always a pleasure your wealth of knowledge is, so basically , these two additions, Ash/glycine should only be ran for a "cycle" and not long term? What say about 3 months on , or something similar, listen to my body and mind etc,

No, that's way too long. I'm talking in terms of taking it much more sporadically. Twice per week or something in those lines. This is only in regards to potential anhedonia, loss of libido and hpa axis dysregulation.

Glycine, to my knowledge, there aren't any potential long term sides, so no worries there really. Use it until it works. 1 - 3g before sleep.

 

[Ateam2023]

I mentioned how ash should be cycled in this thread:



It has the potential to cause liver damage under certain conditions (dosage, supplement quality, long-term usage.) Be careful.

how long do you take it for "approximately"?