NPP Clearance time

[baked_cake]

I have been looking around a bit trying to find information on the clearance times for when NPP stops suppressing testosterone production. The only info that I have is that NPP has a half life of about 2.5 days, vs deca has a half life of 7 days. But I've also heard that nandrone is suppressive if even a tiny amount is still present in the body, and that deca is suppressive to testosterone production for months. Which suggests that deca may need to go through up to 10-15 half lives before a PCT can even be started. If this is true then NPP might clear the system after 38 days?

Does any one have any input/insight on this?

 

[fooba]

it doesnt matter if the npp has cleared your system. its the metabolites that linger around that you need to worry about.

 

[The-Optimist]

Half life is roughly 4 days but the metabolites are detectable for months.

 

[klokke23]

Nandrolone isn't particularly suppressive. There's good info about this subject on the forum.
There are detectable metabolites that stay for months though if that's your concern.

 

[Type-IIx]

"Plasma testosterone concentrations were most rapidly and completely suppressed within the first week after injections of the phenylpropionate ester, but this suppression was sustained for the shortest time. The duration of suppression was significantly longest after the gluteal 1-ml injection. Plasma testosterone concentrations returned to base line by day 13 after the phenylpropionate ester but required >20 days to return to base-line levels after the decanoate ester." Minto CF, Howe C, Wishart S, Conway AJ, Handelsman DJ. Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of nandrolone esters in oil vehicle: effects of ester, injection site and injection volume. J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1997 Apr;281(1):93-102.
- FSH suppression occurred rapidly (day 3 or 4) but returned to base-line practically immediately after phenylpropionate (IM gluteal) and after about a week with decanoate (Table 6, Inhibin, p. 100)

But nandrolone (as hexyloxyphenylpropionate; Anadur) at 200 mg every 21 days was unable to maintain suppression of spermatogenesis whereas 100 mg testoterone (as enanthate) was able. Behre, H. M., Kliesch, S., Lemcke, B., von Eckardstein, S., & Nieschlag, E. (2001). Suppression of spermatogenesis to azoospermia by combined administration of GnRH antagonist and 19-nortestosterone cannot be maintained by this non-aromatizable androgen alone. Human Reproduction, 16(12), 2570–2577. doi:10.1093/humrep/16.12.2570. Swerdloff, R. S., Bagatell, C. J., Wang, C., Anawalt, B. D., Berman, N., Steiner, B., & Bremner, W. J. (1998). Suppression of Spermatogenesis in Man Induced by Nal-Glu Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone Antagonist and Testosterone Enanthate (TE) Is Maintained by TE Alone1. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 83(10), 3527–3533. doi:10.1210/jcem.83.10.5184

LH suppression was mostly reversed by week 6 post-cycle with 250 mg Test Cyp per week versus week 10 post-cycle in 500 mg group.

This is from a 2018 paper titled Population PK/PD Modeling of Testosterone Cypionate in Healthy Male Subjects by Bi, Perry, Ellerby, et al.

In conclusion, if you're just basically worried about which nandrolone ester is going to give you the most grief with recovery of HPG axis functioning, you're simply worried about the wrong thing if you consider testosterone to be a smooth recovery. Deca is worse than NPP in this regard, but even the Anadur (21-day half life) is unable to fully suppress HPG axis functioning at 200 mg every 21 days unlike testosterone enanthate or cypionate at 100 mg every week.

 

[Big_paul]

Npp will not shut you down forever. I'd say 2-3 wks.

Detection is different.

 

[baked_cake]

View attachment 259095
"Plasma testosterone concentrations were most rapidly and completely suppressed within the first week after injections of the phenylpropionate ester, but this suppression was sustained for the shortest time. The duration of suppression was significantly longest after the gluteal 1-ml injection. Plasma testosterone concentrations returned to base line by day 13 after the phenylpropionate ester but required >20 days to return to base-line levels after the decanoate ester." Minto CF, Howe C, Wishart S, Conway AJ, Handelsman DJ. Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of nandrolone esters in oil vehicle: effects of ester, injection site and injection volume. J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1997 Apr;281(1):93-102.
- FSH suppression occurred rapidly (day 3 or 4) but returned to base-line practically immediately after phenylpropionate (IM gluteal) and after about a week with decanoate (Table 6, Inhibin, p. 100)

But nandrolone (as hexyloxyphenylpropionate; Anadur) at 200 mg every 21 days was unable to maintain suppression of spermatogenesis whereas 100 mg testoterone (as enanthate) was able. Behre, H. M., Kliesch, S., Lemcke, B., von Eckardstein, S., & Nieschlag, E. (2001). Suppression of spermatogenesis to azoospermia by combined administration of GnRH antagonist and 19-nortestosterone cannot be maintained by this non-aromatizable androgen alone. Human Reproduction, 16(12), 2570–2577. doi:10.1093/humrep/16.12.2570. Swerdloff, R. S., Bagatell, C. J., Wang, C., Anawalt, B. D., Berman, N., Steiner, B., & Bremner, W. J. (1998). Suppression of Spermatogenesis in Man Induced by Nal-Glu Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone Antagonist and Testosterone Enanthate (TE) Is Maintained by TE Alone1. The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, 83(10), 3527–3533. doi:10.1210/jcem.83.10.5184

LH suppression was mostly reversed by week 6 post-cycle with 250 mg Test Cyp per week versus week 10 post-cycle in 500 mg group.

This is from a 2018 paper titled Population PK/PD Modeling of Testosterone Cypionate in Healthy Male Subjects by Bi, Perry, Ellerby, et al.

In conclusion, if you're just basically worried about which nandrolone ester is going to give you the most grief with recovery of HPG axis functioning, you're simply worried about the wrong thing if you consider testosterone to be a smooth recovery. Deca is worse than NPP in this regard, but even the Anadur (21-day half life) is unable to fully suppress HPG axis functioning at 200 mg every 21 days unlike testosterone enanthate or cypionate at 100 mg every week.

Thank you for this info.

 

[thomas21]

I have been looking around a bit trying to find information on the clearance times for when NPP stops suppressing testosterone production. The only info that I have is that NPP has a half life of about 2.5 days, vs deca has a half life of 7 days. But I've also heard that nandrone is suppressive if even a tiny amount is still present in the body, and that deca is suppressive to testosterone production for months. Which suggests that deca may need to go through up to 10-15 half lives before a PCT can even be started. If this is true then NPP might clear the system after 38 days?

Does any one have any input/insight on this?

Hey I know this is an old thread but did you find a definitive answer for this? Derek from MPMD made a video about proper pct protocols in which he talks about how deca takes 20 weeks to clear the system and for your natural hormones to start to regulate, despite the 7 day half life. I just got off npp, so I’m looking for an answer to see if I should go on trt for a while or just wait it out.

 

[baked_cake]

Hey I know this is an old thread but did you find a definitive answer for this? Derek from MPMD made a video about proper pct protocols in which he talks about how deca takes 20 weeks to clear the system and for your natural hormones to start to regulate, despite the 7 day half life. I just got off npp, so I’m looking for an answer to see if I should go on trt for a while or just wait it out.

Can you link the video? I might have seen it already. I think for deca 20 weeks might be correct. For NPP I'm not sure what the answer is, it might be the same, even though the ester is shorter, it might be more to do with the metabolites. I am tempted to reach out to derek directly for an answer.

I can tell you that I am currently on 10mg nolvadex ED (started 6/23/23). My last dose of NPP was probably about 2 months ago (I didnt log my last dose), Test C last dose was on 5/19/23, I was on hcg until 6/18/23. I'm not sure the best time is to get bloodwork but I started with a 2 month supply of nolva. I don't feel great, low libido and this mild feeling like I forget where I am and what Im doing when Im out of the house, not sure how to describe it. The same amount of weight is getting a little harder but im slacking on my routine.

 

[thomas21]

Can you link the video? I might have seen it already. I think for deca 20 weeks might be correct. For NPP I'm not sure what the answer is, it might be the same, even though the ester is shorter, it might be more to do with the metabolites. I am tempted to reach out to derek directly for an answer.

I can tell you that I am currently on 10mg nolvadex ED (started 6/23/23). My last dose of NPP was probably about 2 months ago (I didnt log my last dose), Test C last dose was on 5/19/23, I was on hcg until 6/18/23. I'm not sure the best time is to get bloodwork but I started with a 2 month supply of nolva. I don't feel great, low libido and this mild feeling like I forget where I am and what Im doing when Im out of the house, not sure how to describe it. The same amount of weight is getting a little harder but im slacking on my routine.

Here's the link (starts at 6:45):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kjx1U6PKFA&t=477s


And that's interesting, my main concern right now is hairloss, I'm shedding a lot and i'm assuming it's because im supressed from the npp so my lack of estrogen is likely the cause. This is why instead of taking something like nolva I'm thinking it might be a better idea to just hop on trt until the npp is actually cleared out of our systems. (I dropped test cyp and npp both on 06/03/23). I hope to get bloodwork done this week, I'll update in here once it comes back.

 

[baked_cake]

Here's the link (starts at 6:45):
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kjx1U6PKFA&t=477s


And that's interesting, my main concern right now is hairloss, I'm shedding a lot and i'm assuming it's because im supressed from the npp so my lack of estrogen is likely the cause. This is why instead of taking something like nolva I'm thinking it might be a better idea to just hop on trt until the npp is actually cleared out of our systems. (I dropped test cyp and npp both on 06/03/23). I hope to get bloodwork done this week, I'll update in here once it comes back.

Hey I just got my test results back taken on 7/11/23.

Testosterone level: 330 ng/DL
Free Testosterone: 6.9 pg/DL (indicated as below the reference range of 8.7)

Those were the only things I had checked. I would say thats pretty good considering I'm only 20 days into my PCT with 10mg nolvadex.

For reference my test production has been suppressed since july of last year, when I got on testosterone.

 

[TheBeast08]

¿Puedes vincular el video? Puede que ya lo haya visto. Creo que para deca 20 semanas podría ser correcto. Para NPP, no estoy seguro de cuál es la respuesta, podría ser la misma, aunque el éster es más corto, podría tener más que ver con los metabolitos. Estoy tentado de comunicarme con Derek directamente para obtener una respuesta.

Puedo decirles que actualmente estoy tomando 10 mg de nolvadex ED (comenzado el 23/06/23). Mi última dosis de NPP fue probablemente hace aproximadamente 2 meses (no registré mi última dosis), la última dosis de la Prueba C fue el 19/5/23, estuve tomando hcg hasta el 18/6/23. No estoy seguro de que sea el mejor momento para hacerse un análisis de sangre, pero comencé con un suministro de nolva para 2 meses. No me siento muy bien, baja la libido y esta leve sensación de que olvido dónde estoy y qué estoy haciendo cuando estoy fuera de casa, no estoy seguro de cómo describirlo. La misma cantidad de peso se está volviendo un poco más difícil, pero estoy aflojando mi rutina.

¿Cómo te fue con NPP? ¿Alguna ganancia, efectos secundarios, etc.? Gracias

 

[baked_cake]

¿Cómo te fue con NPP? ¿Alguna ganancia, efectos secundarios, etc.? Gracias

Yes, I saw more gains when adding this. I did not like how it made me feel, and my blood pressure went very high, about 160 just lying in bed. I read that it does not aromatize to estrogen much on it's own, but it compounds the effects of testosterone, leading to much more water retention.

Also, where testosterone and anavar(particularly anavar) both made me feel horny, and increased my sex drive, NPP had the opposite effect. I did not get the "deca dick" though.

I was only using 100mg/week NPP with about 250mg/week testosterone and 70mg/week anavar. I was on an extended run (4 months) by the time I added it and my body needed a break.

 

[TheBeast08]

Sí, vi más ganancias al agregar esto. No me gustaba cómo me hacía sentir, y mi presión arterial subió mucho, alrededor de 160 simplemente acostado en la cama. Leí que no aromatiza mucho al estrógeno por sí solo, pero combina los efectos de la testosterona, lo que lleva a una retención de agua mucho mayor.

Además, donde la testosterona y el anavar (particularmente el anavar) me hicieron sentir cachondo y aumentaron mi deseo sexual, la NPP tuvo el efecto contrario. Sin embargo, no obtuve el "dick deca".

Solo estaba usando 100 mg/semana de NPP con aproximadamente 250 mg/semana de testosterona y 70 mg/semana de Anavar. Estaba en una carrera prolongada (4 meses) cuando lo agregué y mi cuerpo necesitaba un descanso.

entonces para mi por primera vez es mucho 200-300 a la semana? Es que estoy indeciso con si tomó masteron o el dhb o tren o nandro quiero añadir uno pero no se cual ‍

 

[baked_cake]

entonces para mi por primera vez es mucho 200-300 a la semana? Es que estoy indeciso con si tomó masteron o el dhb o tren o nandro quiero añadir uno pero no se cual ‍

I don't think 200-300mg/week NPP is a lot but pay attention to your blood pressure. If I do another cycle it won't include NPP, only testosterone (300mg/week) and primobolan (500/mgweek) starting low and titrating upwards.

 

[klokke23]

300 much bueno

 

[TheBeast08]

300 much bueno

Is much 300 per week? With 200 is ok