Olympic lift question and a funny story

[Grizzly]

Funny story first. According to the directions I have for cleans, it says to really accelerate your hips forward. On one rep yesterday I really took that to heart and accelerated so far forward that I caught my nuts over the bar and nearly pulled them off while pulling the bar up. Haha, that was funny.

Anyhow, according to those directions, it says to slowly pull the bar off the ground until it passes the knees and then accelerate the hips, yada ya.

How slow is considered slow. Being that I'm lifting relatively light right now, so I can get the form, the slow isn't that hard to overcome, but I can see where trying to pull 315 or so would make that difficult. What's the deal on this?

 

[Freddy]

Grizz...first of all...wear boxer briefs, tighty whities, or some other form of nut-hugger when you're training...c'mon now! You gotta give your boys a home here...can't have them floppin all over the place when you're cleaning.

Ok, when they mean "slow"...they don't actually mean slow. Remember, cleans are very explosive, so in comparison, the first pull is "slow", but only in comparison.

Don't make it any slower than it has to be. In other words, don't strive to make that slow, you'll just waste energy.

Conversely, don't make it any faster than it has to be either...cuz that in turn wastes a lot of energy. But once its at knee height, accerate it with everything you have.

It will come to you, but if that doesn't make sense, think of it this way. Off the floor, the bar should be moving at the speed of a normal deadlift (slow compared to a clean) but once the bar gets to your knees, you should get it moving very fast.

Here is one video: http://www.fitrex.com/video/small/classic_clean.avi

I hope this helps.

Funny story first. According to the directions I have for cleans, it says to really accelerate your hips forward. On one rep yesterday I really took that to heart and accelerated so far forward that I caught my nuts over the bar and nearly pulled them off while pulling the bar up. Haha, that was funny.

Anyhow, according to those directions, it says to slowly pull the bar off the ground until it passes the knees and then accelerate the hips, yada ya.

How slow is considered slow. Being that I'm lifting relatively light right now, so I can get the form, the slow isn't that hard to overcome, but I can see where trying to pull 315 or so would make that difficult. What's the deal on this?

 

[shaboz]

Griz, here are a few thoughts on the Olympic stuff for you..

First off, tape your fucking balls behind your ass.

Second, I would move the weight as quickly as I could off the floor. Creating the initial movement and force is what will develop the ground strength you need. Ground strength? Force that is applied to the ground when you move your body... It will help determine how fast you run, how high you jump, general acceleration... Got it?

Third, I dont know how much you really need to worry about pulling heavy weight. I guess it is all relative, but I think there does come a point when you are just dead lifting. Dead lifts and cleans are very different in terms of building athleticism.. Maybe a fine line, but there is still a difference...

Fourth, and this is one that I have always done... Just pull the bar to chest height. Dont worry about racking/catching anything. If you want quickness, jump rope, do agility drills etc. If you want raw power lifting some shit as high as you can, just pull and yank the fucker as high as you can. Only worry about one direction of the lift... I think you will be able to get just as much out of the clean, but you will be able to use more weight and create more explosion/strength..

Sorry if it sounds technical.. Maybe I spent too much time in the strength game..

 

[Grizzly]

No, it sounds fine. I also do clean pulls and snatch pulls, so those are taken care of.

The reason that the directions, which, I believe, are from the website Freddy directed me to, say to start the initial pull slowly is so that you don't round the back and get out of position to complete the lift.

 

[Freddy]

No, it sounds fine. I also do clean pulls and snatch pulls, so those are taken care of.

The reason that the directions, which, I believe, are from the website Freddy directed me to, say to start the initial pull slowly is so that you don't round the back and get out of position to complete the lift.

I would definitely rack the bar on your chest.

A completely executed clean or powerclean will develop a ton of reversal strength, and you rob yourself of this to some degree if you cut the lift short. No amount of deadlifting will develop your ability to change direction like a complete clean.

 

[strengthcoach]

"Second, I would move the weight as quickly as I could off the floor. Creating the initial movement and force is what will develop the ground strength you need. Ground strength? Force that is applied to the ground when you move your body... It will help determine how fast you run, how high you jump, general acceleration... Got it?"

Incorrect. Pulling rapidly from the floor, pulls the athlete forward, and creates a situation where the hips rise early. Never pull fast from the floor. Meaningful acceleration of the bar does not occur until the 2nd pull, above the knee.


"Fourth, and this is one that I have always done... Just pull the bar to chest height. Dont worry about racking/catching anything. If you want quickness, jump rope, do agility drills etc. If you want raw power lifting some shit as high as you can, just pull and yank the fucker as high as you can. Only worry about one direction of the lift... I think you will be able to get just as much out of the clean, but you will be able to use more weight and create more explosion/strength.."

Pulls alter the bar path, such that they are usually extremely different that the full lifts. Unless the athlete is very experienced.

Strengthcoach

 

[Freddy]

"Second, I would move the weight as quickly as I could off the floor. Creating the initial movement and force is what will develop the ground strength you need. Ground strength? Force that is applied to the ground when you move your body... It will help determine how fast you run, how high you jump, general acceleration... Got it?"

Incorrect. Pulling rapidly from the floor, pulls the athlete forward, and creates a situation where the hips rise early. Never pull fast from the floor. Meaningful acceleration of the bar does not occur until the 2nd pull, above the knee.


"Fourth, and this is one that I have always done... Just pull the bar to chest height. Dont worry about racking/catching anything. If you want quickness, jump rope, do agility drills etc. If you want raw power lifting some shit as high as you can, just pull and yank the fucker as high as you can. Only worry about one direction of the lift... I think you will be able to get just as much out of the clean, but you will be able to use more weight and create more explosion/strength.."

Pulls alter the bar path, such that they are usually extremely different that the full lifts. Unless the athlete is very experienced.

Strengthcoach

This is a good post.

Grizz, like I said before, if you're overly concerned about speed issues, think of the speed of the 1 pull as equal to that of a deadlift. As for the form, well, a lot of people will tell you that the first pull of a clean or power clean is very different from that of a deadlift (Mel Siff for one would agree).

However, like JS said...so many people deadlift in so many different ways, that this is hard to reconcile. If I were you, I'd just watch that video often and try and reproduce the form. Whether or not this has a lot to do with your deadlift form should be irrelevent.

Mel Siff is a lot smarter than I...but you cannot deny that the form of the best deadlifters in the world is not always comparable to what Siff describes. So...if your 1st pull of your clean or powerclean looks like your deadlift, despite what the crittics say, I wouldn't worry.

One last thing, remember Bill Starr's famous quotation regarding all kinds of pulls, "when the arm bends, the power ends." Obviously, the arms will bend when you rack the bar on your chest, but try and get the bar speed up before then.

 

[Grizzly]

How deep do your recommend squatting down? I know on a deadlift, I don't really squat that far down, but on these I do squat a little farther to get in more hip drive.

Let me rephrase that. I sit more when I clean,snatch pull, etc. Is that correct?

 

[shaboz]

"Incorrect. Pulling rapidly from the floor, pulls the athlete forward, and creates a situation where the hips rise early. Never pull fast from the floor. Meaningful acceleration of the bar does not occur until the 2nd pull, above the knee."

I guess either my technique was good or I had a good coach.. My hips didnt rise and I was always able to lift the bar with a decent amount of speed. Not break neck or enough to ruin my technique, but enough momentum to get it going. Are you doing deadlifts or are you trying to develop some speed/explosion? Cause there is a difference. Are you gonna compete in an Olympic event? Or are you a guy that just wants a little more zip? I think how you are going to apply your Olympic lifts should have some bearing as to how you do them.

Meaningful acceleration in the second pull? I disagree. Meaningful acceleration is getting the bar off the ground. You cant get to the second pull without the first one, and if it is as slow as you are recommending, might not happen at all.

"Pulls alter the bar path, such that they are usually extremely different that the full lifts. Unless the athlete is very experienced."

Unless the bar is going away from your body, I dont see a problem.

Maybe I just break it down too much. I dont think much of catching or racking anything. With those lifts, I want explosion and to move good weight. I can work on speed, agility, quickness on the track. In the weight room, lift weights to get stronger.

 

[Freddy]

How deep do your recommend squatting down? I know on a deadlift, I don't really squat that far down, but on these I do squat a little farther to get in more hip drive.

Let me rephrase that. I sit more when I clean,snatch pull, etc. Is that correct?

It depends...but it sounds like you're doing it correctly.