On TRT and little sex drive what gives?

[bigmark]

I'd like some input on this from some of you guys if you could.

Before I ever juiced I had an incredible sex drive, I'm talking 2-3 times a day minimum or it would dominate my thoughts.

I juiced for many years and had the drive while on but not off which is typical.
I decided to stop AAS, I used PH until they became illegal. By this time I had basicall given up on cycling because I hated the off periods, I felt like crap and despite proper PCT never seemed to recover.

After PH were banned I began to seek out TRT I have recently been trying to get tuned in with my TRT.

While getting tuned in I had some of my sex drive return but nothing like I was used to before, I did some research and found MACA to be beneficial in this aspect so I began to use it because I was having "issues" and a new girlfriend to boot.

I was surprised when my bloodwork came in and my base level was 800 just about perfect, but my free test was extremely high. I suspected the MACA was to blame and stopped using it and got retested. I should be getting those results soon. BTW my estro was within normal ranges.

Since then my sex drive has fallen once again and I know my test level must still be at least within normal if not high normal range.

My question is this, is this normal and have any of the rest of you noticed anything similar. I have a friend who is also on TRT and told me the same thing, his drive has NEVER recoved since his first cycle of test/deca years ago despite his levels currently being in high/normal range.

I know I am 32 and not 20 anymore, but my levels are high right now so I am having a hard time understanding whats going on.

 

[toc67guru]

what treatment are you on gel,patch or injections?

what dosage are you on?

what are your estrogen levels?

post as much info as possible to get the best advice to what you need to do.

 

[bigmark]

I believe my estro was 49, bound test was 800 and free test was very, very high (have not seen labs).

I am currently on 100mg/wk cyp, I am hoping the free test was a lab mistake and not the maca because it really helped, I have switched labs this time as well. Found out today that my insurance covered zero of my labs (after telling me they would) 1500 in the hole and counting

I was doing a kind of HRT myself with 4ad cyp before they became illegal. My levels were several times normal and I still did not have the sex drive I had before I ever juiced. I have talked to many of my ex and current juicer friends and they all say they have the same issues I am having seems there has to be a link somehow. Somehow something is different pre vs post juice it's hard to explain but the drive has never been the same.

I started juicing around 26-27 so it's not like I started when I was 18.

 

[pmgamer18]

Maca does nothing for testosterone levels but is good for libido. Your E2 Estradiol is to high when mine is that high my Cialis does not work and I can't have sex. Try taking Indolplex/DIM to get it down it is a OTC supplement.
http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html

Here is a cut and paste on what I have for Maca.
Phil

The following is some info I sent someone recently. Maca was shown
not to increase T in scientific experiments.


Maca stimulates the adrenals to produce it's own cortisol and DHEA
and probably a few other hormones as well. Since Maca is a food, it
has to be taken in much larger doses than what is recommended on some
products found in Health Food stores. I was doing great on 3
compacted level teaspoons(using a measuring teaspoon), which is the
approximate dose that most people find benefit at. Maca is expensive
at this dosage if purchased from a health food store and so it is
best to purchase it in bulk 1kg packages, which actually turns out to
be quite cheap.

This is a website by a lady that uses Maca and she provides good
information and dosing instructions as well:
http://allaboutmaca.dreamstation.com/

This website sells Maca in bulk at the best prices I've seen:
http://www.therootofthematter.ca/cgi-bin/itsmy/go.exe?
page=1&domain=12&webdir=therootofthematter

The following is an excerpt from a doctor that personally uses Maca
for adrenal function:

"Henry Campanile, MD., offers Adrenal Balancing Maca root
In keeping with its mode of acting through the hypothalamus and
pituitary, maca has a balancing and nourishing effect on the adrenal
glands. Henry Campanile, MD, a 50-year old specialist in internal and
family/complementary medicine practising in Florida states: "I happen
to have been born with only one adrenal gland just like my father. I
started taking cortisone in my late twenties to relieve the fatigue
which I was already feeling. Knowing the dangers of long term
cortisone use, I looked around for an alternative, and this
circumstance is what got me interested in complementary medicine. I
started using pregnenelone about 10 years ago and it has been fairly
satisfactory. But one of my patients told me about Maca and I started
taking it about a month ago.

It is phenomenal! I haven't felt this good since I was 20 years old.
I have so much energy and look so well, my patients have remarked on
it and told me how rested I seem. I've got so much energy now, that
I've started an exercise program". After trying it on himself, Dr
Campanile began using maca with his patients. My first patient to
take maca capsules was experiencing hot flashes and other menopausal
symptoms. She started feeling much better after using this herb for
only four days. I'm also employing it with patients who have a low
adrenal function." "

The following are informational links for Maca:

http://www.imperialgoldmaca.com/nutritional_value.htm
http://www.medicine-plants.com/articles/145/
http://health.discovery.com/centers/sex/libido/maca.html
http://www.rain-tree.com/maca.htm
http://www.maca-miracle.com/maca_composition.html
http://www.macaroot.com/science/hormone.html

 

[Viper1]

I was doing great on 3
compacted level teaspoons(using a measuring teaspoon), which is the
approximate dose that most people find benefit at.

You were doing 3 teaspoons a day or all at one time? Heck I was only doing about a half a teaspoon once right before bedtime. Was that enough?

 

[pmgamer18]

That is not me I was doing 1/2 a tsp 2 times a day that was the person that I got to info from that did that much.
Phil

 

[bigmark]

Nice info, thanks I am glad to hear that Maca really does help! I had no idea estro could have such an effect on libido, in stupid high amounts sure but I am in the upper normal range?

Now that I think of it my estro was sky high when I first started on TRT, that 4AD cyp (or whatever the heck it was) had me pretty messed up.

I have since lost just about 30 lbs and I think I look much better now than I did then when I was all puffy and crappy looking. I also gave up smoking and have been working on getting my diet in check my estro while still a little high is much lower than it was before starting legitamate TRT.

I have been going through viagra/cialis like crazy trying to keep up with this new girl but without the drive it is a pain. Perhaps I am very sensative to estrogen, or I wonder if I screwed up my prolactin levels since I have done my fair share of finaplix and Vitex in my day

 

[androjello]

would you please expand on your hypothesis of finaplix? I have used this substance as well in my past and would like to know your comments.

 

[Stez]

fina/tren raises prolactin.

Sounds like your estro was the problem. Increasing your testosterone input from PH/HRT was just raising your estro even further, which was making the problem worse.

Did u use proper PCT while u cycled AAS? (nolva, clomid, hcg, sufficient time off etc) ?

 

[Viper1]

I have been going through viagra/cialis like crazy trying to keep up with this new girl but without the drive it is a pain.

Tell me about it...LOL. It's damn expensive also isn't it? Especially for me because I take 2 20mg Cialis, 2 20mg Levitra, and a 100mg Viagra all about an hour apart and without the sex drive part of it, I can last about 5 minutes, if I can get it up at all. I just got a test message from the girlfriend a few minutes ago wanting to hookup tomorrow night. I never thought I would see the day when I would dread sex but for the last two and a half years, that's the norm.

 

[pmgamer18]

Nice info, thanks I am glad to hear that Maca really does help! I had no idea estro could have such an effect on libido, in stupid high amounts sure but I am in the upper normal range?

Now that I think of it my estro was sky high when I first started on TRT, that 4AD cyp (or whatever the heck it was) had me pretty messed up.

I have since lost just about 30 lbs and I think I look much better now than I did then when I was all puffy and crappy looking. I also gave up smoking and have been working on getting my diet in check my estro while still a little high is much lower than it was before starting legitamate TRT.

I have been going through viagra/cialis like crazy trying to keep up with this new girl but without the drive it is a pain. Perhaps I am very sensative to estrogen, or I wonder if I screwed up my prolactin levels since I have done my fair share of finaplix and Vitex in my day

For you high E2 Estradiol try Indolplex/DIM take one pill a day. For me I got very hard morning wood when I started on it. And when I lost the wood I had gone to low. So I stopped it until the wood came back. The went back on it but took half the amount. You need to play with it until you find the right dose. I taking one pill does not do the job in a month then up the dose. I also take Cialis 20 mgs. every 72 hrs. doing this has make me able to have sex any time. My Dr. told me to take it this way and it is keeping my BP in check. If my E2 is to high or to low I can't get it up even on Cialis.
Here is a link to the DIM I take.
http://www.ritecare.com/prodsheets/PHY-15336.html
Phil

 

[bigmark]

Super info thanks!

I think I will probably have to wait until I get fully tuned in so I at least have a good base numbers for my Doctor and I to go on. I spent years messing my system up I'd like to get straightened out first. I now know I do not need 1 gram of test a week to look good and feel great.

Did u use proper PCT while u cycled AAS? (nolva, clomid, hcg, sufficient time off etc) ?

Yes, for the first year or two even then I never seemed to fully recover. It was so much easier/tempting to just not come off. I have had problems with depression in the past and the crashes were really hard for me to deal with.
I used to live and die by the scale, I know better now.

 

[Astrozombie]

I have never used Viagra or Cialis, but my understanding of these medications is that they are for men who have sex drive, but errectial disfunction (i.e. they want to do it, but can't).

This would be different from those suffering from hypogonadism (could do it if they wanted to, but don't want to).

 

[Chute]

Super info thanks!

I think I will probably have to wait until I get fully tuned in so I at least have a good base numbers for my Doctor and I to go on. I spent years messing my system up I'd like to get straightened out first. I now know I do not need 1 gram of test a week to look good and feel great.



Yes, for the first year or two even then I never seemed to fully recover. It was so much easier/tempting to just not come off. I have had problems with depression in the past and the crashes were really hard for me to deal with.
I used to live and die by the scale, I know better now.

Did you ever recover naturally from depression? If so, how long did it take? The reason I ask this is because after a PH cycle, I have been severely depressed for 8 months, and its gotten slightly better with TRT, but not what you would expect.

 

[bigmark]

Did you ever recover naturally from depression? If so, how long did it take? The reason I ask this is because after a PH cycle, I have been severely depressed for 8 months, and its gotten slightly better with TRT, but not what you would expect.

I had problems with depression before my first cycle (since high school). The off periods from my aas use made it almost unbearable. I went and got help because it got so bad I could not get out of bed. I know that sounds weak and it is somewhat embarrassing to say, but depression can be crippling.

No, it did not get better on it's own, no matter how big I got or how many women I had I was never happy. I had to see a doc and get on some meds to get my life back. I am in good shape now, and wasted a lot of time before I went and got some help, perhaps you should do the same?

If you want anymore help or advice on this PM me rather than move this thread off topic. I would stay clear of ssri's and go more toward Welbutrin but that is what worked for me you may be different. SSRI's turned me into a zombie, they really made it worse.

 

[bigmark]

Well I got my lab results and they are not good.
I can't explain these results
Total T 1232 <827
Bio T 617 <402
Estradiol 134 <50
Total Estrogen 265 <115
SHBG 41 <50


I am lowering my dose and will retest again in 5 wks per Dr's orders. I can not understand how my estrogen is so high I am not an alcoholic if I drink it is normally weekends only and even if I were these estrogen numbers are just stupid. My Dr said he has never seen estrogen this high.



This explains why I have been acting like a pansy ass and have had zero sex drive. I lost my GF because I was/am an emotional wreck with no sex drive.
My last lab the estrogen was high also but nowhere near this last lab. No wonder I was having trouble with the equipment! I felt decent when we first got together (couple months ago) it sort of sneaked up on me when I realized that I had been acting like an insecure wuss bag and did not crave sex like usual or at all for that matter.


What really blows it that I really liked this girl and she never got to know the "real" me. We are still friends but I don't really know how to explain to her how having an estrogen issue like this can turn you into a totally different person (emotionally and physically). I think I am just going to stick to the gym and work until I feel like the man I used to be.

 

[pmgamer18]

So what is the game plain to get your E2 down and your T levels.
I would do Arimidex one pill a day for 30 days.
You are so high it is double what I was and I was a wreck.
Phil

 

[bigmark]

To be honest I am not going to do anything without telling my Dr. I am sick of this roller coaster stuff I can't wait to get tuned in completely.

I am tempted to take some nolva to help with all of the free estro but I will suck it up he's out of town right now i'll ask him if it's OK to kill some of this estro but he needs good clean numbers from me in 5 wks and I do not want to mess that up.


Arimidex is a suicide inhibitor so I don't think it would help with all of the extra estrogen already in my system but it will probably end up as part of my regime as I seem to make and hang on to craploads of estro.

The plan is to take less test and see what happens with the estrogen my labs have been very inconsistant I think possibly due to some OTC supplement or something I was taking I really am at a loss these numbers do not make any sense.

I wonder if there is a possible interaction with any of my RX'd meds Provigil, Welbutrin, and Klonopin but I have not found anything relative.

I am supposed to go out with my X and a friend of hers this weekend, I feel like I just want to hide from everyone until I am close to normal I really hate this emotional, wuss crap.




.

 

[Chute]

I had problems with depression before my first cycle (since high school). The off periods from my aas use made it almost unbearable. I went and got help because it got so bad I could not get out of bed. I know that sounds weak and it is somewhat embarrassing to say, but depression can be crippling.

No, it did not get better on it's own, no matter how big I got or how many women I had I was never happy. I had to see a doc and get on some meds to get my life back. I am in good shape now, and wasted a lot of time before I went and got some help, perhaps you should do the same?

If you want anymore help or advice on this PM me rather than move this thread off topic. I would stay clear of ssri's and go more toward Welbutrin but that is what worked for me you may be different. SSRI's turned me into a zombie, they really made it worse.

Alright, I PM'ed ya! Yeah, SSRI's turned me into a zombie too. As far as depression being crippling, its not embarassing, you could take Conan the Barbarian and if he was depressed he wouldn't be the same.

 

[pmgamer18]

To be honest I am not going to do anything without telling my Dr. I am sick of this roller coaster stuff I can't wait to get tuned in completely.

I am tempted to take some nolva to help with all of the free estro but I will suck it up he's out of town right now i'll ask him if it's OK to kill some of this estro but he needs good clean numbers from me in 5 wks and I do not want to mess that up.


Arimidex is a suicide inhibitor so I don't think it would help with all of the extra estrogen already in my system but it will probably end up as part of my regime as I seem to make and hang on to craploads of estro.

The plan is to take less test and see what happens with the estrogen my labs have been very inconsistant I think possibly due to some OTC supplement or something I was taking I really am at a loss these numbers do not make any sense.

I wonder if there is a possible interaction with any of my RX'd meds Provigil, Welbutrin, and Klonopin but I have not found anything relative.

I am supposed to go out with my X and a friend of hers this weekend, I feel like I just want to hide from everyone until I am close to normal I really hate this emotional, wuss crap.




.

I would not mean for you to do anything with out your Dr. blessing. I never do. You can get back to normal fast on the Arimidex then switch to Indolplex/DIM after your feeling better.
Phil