Opinions on cruise components?

[milkbone]

I'll keep it short and sweet, cruising now on 250mg test per week, Sust to be specific. Have read some info that a cruise of EQ plus Mast may be even more viable as far as keeping hormones where they should be, and also even more beneficial than a small dose of test on a cruise. Currently 6 weeks into it, started with 200 mg/testE but switched to Sust for PIP reasons. Have plenty of EQ and Mast on hand, and planning cruise to last another 8 weeks. Actually my longest cruise ever, I've given up and back to blast levels before for transparency to my situation. EQ and Mast seem to be the best option vs test as I've been reading the profiles available here in the forum, just looking for others opinions, I'd really appreciate it, it's hard to cruise for me to begin with, if a run of EQ and mast or EQ and Primo would be beneficial I would greatly appreciate the advice.

Thanks!

 

[Davidinovg]

During a cruise your first goal should be to recover your health markers from your blast and to keep your size/gains as much as possible.

It doesn't mean to include 2 extra molecules other than testosterone just because you have a good stock otherwise we are not talking about a cruise anymore but another cycle.

Cruise should be a "health" phase, consider as well that 250mg of Testosterone weekly will bring you to levels over the normal range for a natural human and that's enough IMO.

Check your bloodworks often and based on that do your decisions!

 

[Georgetrenson]

I personally like to cruise on test and mast. I find that my body feels much better using lower doses of multiple compounds than using a higher dose of only testosterone. The optimal approach depends on your estrogen sensitivity and cholesterol genetics...

If you jive with estrogen, a test only cruise is going to be better for lipids; I'm estrogen sensitive and feel better with lower levels. If you're going to do DHTs, you need to have genetically low LDL; research says that LDL is causal to heart disease, not HDL, so as long LDL and ApoB markers are in check you should be ok to run DHTs year round (I would work with a cardiologist to be safe).

In terms of compounds, I think Mast is better for cruising & cutting since its anti estrogenic effects are very weak; not strong enough to manage e2 on a blast, but sufficient for lower test doses which is the way to go cutting; save the Primo for the blast to reduce expenditures.

Using 3 compounds is overkill, I would just use an AI instead of EQ, or use test/primo for the cruise if you have the cash. I would never touch EQ because of the very long half life, too confusing to adjust doses.

 

[readalot]

Cruise should be a "health" phase, consider as well that 250mg of Testosterone weekly will bring you to levels over the normal range for a natural human and that's enough IMO.

A-f'n-MEN.

 

[Ouch]

There’s no reality where 250mg weekly is a cruise. Not a judgment, just being factual that 250mg will put you well above the normal ref range.

Don’t lie to yourself or to others looking for advice on this board. Call it what it is - a low(er) dose cycle…in which case add whatever you want and report the results back.

 

[Georgetrenson]

There’s no reality where 250mg weekly is a cruise. Not a judgment, just being factual that 250mg will put you well above the normal ref range.

Don’t lie to yourself or to others looking for advice on this board. Call it what it is - a low(er) dose cycle…in which case add whatever you want and report the results back.

I think everyone has different definitions for a cruise. Just because your test is above the normal reference range doesn't mean you still can't have good bloodwork.

A cruise, IMO, is a period where you continually optimize your hormones by lowering doses to make adjustments, you don't stop adjusting until you hit the lowest dose possible to maintain your gains while meeting conditioning targets. The goal is to optimize bloodwork, and get it as clean as you can while meeting that criteria.

Harsh reality is that the bigger you get, the more gear it takes to maintain, especially if you're also trying to stay conditioned year round. Plenty of pro bodybuilders who are cruising on at least 300-500 a week, some maybe even a gram; they simply have the genetics to handle the drugs and be adequately healthy, that's why they're bodybuilders.

 

[milkbone]

First off, thanks to all comments, I appreciate them. Historically my LDL levels have been well within range, as well as liver enzymes, HDL, etc. To the point where my unknowing Dr typed on the blood results "keep up the regimen" while I was on cycle. Personally, 250mg of test vs 200mg is a negligible difference, my friend with prescribed TRT receives 200mg of cyp per week, so 50mg is what it is, neither make nor break. I've been in the gym now for a good 35 years as I started in high school, my father was a contest winner back when Ironman magazine was an 8x10" publication so perhaps genetics are present, maybe not. My main problem is not being able to request any blood testing without a prescription, and my Dr of 30 years has retired, finding an understanding, trustworthy Dr is a challenge that I am not up to in winter, my work is seasonal therefore so are finances with co-pays outside of a yearly physical. Gear is on hand, not part of the financial picture. Again, I do appreciate all comments, positive, neutral, and negative, the ones addressing specific levels especially, as well as the opine regarding EQ, all in all grateful for the opinions expressed, shows a lot about why this is truly a harm prevention forum.

 

[Country Club Hero]

I usually cruise on 80mg - 100mg of test cyp broken up into daily, shallow IM injections. I often add HGH at 3-4iu too.

I’m trying something different now. I’m injecting Test E at 125mg every 5 days. I’m m also adding Deca at 150mg and Masteron E at 150 every 5th day.

Just started the new cruise about 1 week ago so no decision yet about viability. Hopefully that low amount of Mast won’t mess with my prostate.

 

[SwolieGuacamole]

There’s no reality where 250mg weekly is a cruise. Not a judgment, just being factual that 250mg will put you well above the normal ref range.

Don’t lie to yourself or to others looking for advice on this board. Call it what it is - a low(er) dose cycle…in which case add whatever you want and report the results back.

Who’s to determine what mg of test crosses the line into “small cycle”. Everything is user based and all depends on how a person responds via blood work. Social media is plagued with comments like these. Whats it matter to you anyway? Does every male in the world respond to 200mg of test the exact way you do? Your bodies response/opinon isn’t the baseline.

You target test levels, not dosage.

To add. TRT is one thing. Your definition of a “cruise” and someone else’s can be vastly different. A cruise is to do what? Restore health markers. If I cruise on 300mg test with perfect health markers, and want to maintain gained muscle mass, is that not a cruise by definition.

Maybe you mean TRT.

 

[readalot]

There’s no reality where 250mg weekly is a cruise. Not a judgment, just being factual that 250mg will put you well above the normal ref range.

Don’t lie to yourself or to others looking for advice on this board. Call it what it is - a low(er) dose cycle…in which case add whatever you want and report the results back.

250 mg/week Test E or Test C would put the bottom 2.5 percentile at ~1000 ng/dl TT mean. For reference.

Log scale for ordinate...

 

[Ouch]

View attachment 310751

250 mg/week Test E or Test C would put the bottom 2.5 percentile at ~1000 ng/dl TT mean. For reference.

Log scale for ordinate...

View attachment 310753

Exactly. The bottom 2.5% of respondents are still right outside the “normal” range of most tests. Again - the BOTTOM level of respondents. Looks like the average is close to 2000. Call that a cruise if you want, but it’s not.

 

[SwolieGuacamole]

Exactly. The bottom 2.5% of respondents are still right outside the “normal” range of most tests. Again - the BOTTOM level of respondents. Looks like the average is close to 2000. Call that a cruise if you want, but it’s not.

Again. Cruise and trt are not the same thing….

 

[Ouch]

Who’s to determine what mg of test crosses the line into “small cycle”. Everything is user based and all depends on how a person responds via blood work. Social media is plagued with comments like these. Whats it matter to you anyway? Does every male in the world respond to 200mg of test the exact way you do? Your bodies response/opinon isn’t the baseline.

You target test levels, not dosage.

To add. TRT is one thing. Your definition of a “cruise” and someone else’s can be vastly different. A cruise is to do what? Restore health markers. If I cruise on 300mg test with perfect health markers, and want to maintain gained muscle mass, is that not a cruise by definition.

Maybe you mean TRT.

What did I say - not judging, just stating facts. You can all blast as much as you want and call it a “cruise” all you want to…because some basic bloodwork looks better than when you’re on 1000s of mgs. That’s fine with me, but you’re lying to yourself and others and it’s your longevity at stake, not mine.

Why do I care? For the stated purpose of this whole board’s existence - harm reduction.

 

[SwolieGuacamole]

What did I say - not judging, just stating facts. You can all blast as much as you want and call it a “cruise” all you want to…because some basic bloodwork looks better than when you’re on 1000s of mgs. That’s fine with me, but you’re lying to yourself and others and it’s your longevity at stake, not mine.

Why do I care? For the stated purpose of this whole board’s existence - harm reduction.

A cruise is maintenance and health marker recovery. TRT is replacement therapy.

One is a body building practice. The other is therapy to restore normal or high normal levels.

I “cruise” at 300.

 

[Ouch]

Again. Cruise and trt are not the same thing….

What you are referring to is permablasting. The term “cruise” only came along once the shift from blasting to PCT got replaced with blasting to cruising. So, yes, cruising was meant to indicate taking one’s levels somewhere around the normal reference range.

If it’s become some bastardized, ambiguous definition now it’s only because people want to justify what was once called permablasting.

 

[SwolieGuacamole]

What you are referring to is permablasting. The term “cruise” only came along once the shift from blasting to PCT got replaced with blasting to cruising. So, yes, cruising was meant to indicate taking one’s levels somewhere around the normal reference range.

If it’s become some bastardized, ambiguous definition now it’s only because people want to justify what was once called permablasting.

Ok. You’re right.

 

[milkbone]

@SwolieGuacamole
Can lead a horse to water......

Reference to EQ did play a part in that statement for 100% transparency.

Seems as if one factor is being ignored - sometimes, after decades of supplemental test is ingested, plus age, levels will never return to what some consider normal. I personally know guys in their 30s that live with the fact that the rest of their life will include a pin and a vial or ampule. Price we pay. Does Clomid and other AIs help to bring levels of T back? Sure. For a while at least. Then some graduate to Arimidex. Then have to acknowledge that their endocrine system is either permanently damaged or the big admission - we get old and don't want to. Personally, being an older, questionably wiser man mixed with the muscularity and physical prowess of myself in my 20s and 30s is great, imagine attaining that big wish of "if I knew then what I know now" attained. Not a chump that gears up and benches 105 with a spot, but true, earned strength. I worked hard af in the gym for a good 10 years before I decided to cycle, as per Dan Duchaine, who was a mentor to me. No juice until you plateau was a mantra that I followed.

Wow, went way way off track, all I really wanted to do was reiterate my thank you to the additional participants in this thread, thank you all.