Optimal E2 while blasting

[Deadpool99]

Hello,
So guys, I would y’alls input on this,
720mg test e/550ng mast e.

I made a post where I had some shitty fatigue and low energy. It could be many things, getting more bloodwork tomorrow, but my question is, what do you determine is an optimal E2:

My labs were:
Testosterone at 143.8 nmol/L = ~4148 ng/dL
Estradiol at 183 pmol/L = ~49.8 pg/mL

Now aside from the low energy/fatigue part. What do you regard as optimal E2 while blasting. Do you believe E2 should be within a specific range, or do you think it’s better for your E2 to be within a certain ratio with your Total Testosterone.

As you could argue I have low E2 relative to TT:
50 pg/mL at TT >4000 ng/dL, is disproportionately low.

How do you think people should approach E2 levels? Should I for example just see how much E2 I can tolerate without sides, for example try to get my E2 between 80-100 and see if I can tolerate it?

 

[220]

I like for my E2 to be 40-50 during a blast. That’s where I feel the best.

 

[Deadpool99]

I like for my E2 to be 40-50 during a blast. That’s where I feel the best.

What were your compounds and doses if you don't mind,

 

[OnlyOneCycle]

I guess its up to you. But I have heard of 13 - 18 : 1 Test (ng/dl) to e2 (pg/ml).

 

[220]

What were your compounds and doses if you don't mind,

Test/Primo 1:1 and then I had to increase test to bring up E2.
400/400 then bumped up test to 450 and Primo stayed at 400.

 

[Eddie.]

There's no magic ratio to determine your optimal e2 based on test levels, to begin with. Optimal for me it's between 40 and 50 pg/ml. More than that i do feel fine as well but it's not good for multiple reasons.

Also, while on test and mast things can be tricky. My e2 was fine on paper but i had low e2 symptoms. The fact that it doesn't change estradiol levels doesn't mean you won't get the "reduction" effects as well. I'm not planning to use it again but if i would I'd definitely not go 2/1 test/mast because 1/1 made me feel like shit.

 

[anon55]

I like e2 the higher I can handle because it makes me looks 3D, full, with amazing pumps and veins at the gym.

 

[Ryu82]

Between 50 -75 pg/ml when blasting. 40-50 when true TRT.

Its a very individual thing until you get into levels where health concerns might start to pop up (both too low and too high)

 

[JK1]

Late to the discussion on this.

Still trying to figure this one out.

Whats the cons of not treating high e2 when you don't have symptoms?

 

[k710]

Late to the discussion on this.

Still trying to figure this one out.

Whats the cons of not treating high e2 when you don't have symptoms?

The advice ive been given is to maintain a healthy test/estrogen balance. You need more estrogen if your test is running higher. When you introduce compounds that lower estrodial levels while your test is still soaring youll feel low e2 symptoms at "normal levels". I dont think there is a ratio per say because responses are so individualized, but I agree with the thought of a balance that if thrown off too much can cause issues.

Also been told regardless of symptoms, over 60 you manage it. Even if you like it there, its best to ensure your not going over. If its a small difference, using DIM supplement to help the body process/discard estrogen more efficiently along with doing daily injections may be enough to maintain it there. But its another one of those trial and error things with labs involved.

I personally try everything I can before resorting to AI use. High e2 may be bad, but crashed e2 seems worse to me.
Havent quite experienced crash myself, but have experienced low/high estrogen and can only imagine it feeling like death.

 

[JK1]

View attachment 354926

The advice ive been given is to maintain a healthy test/estrogen balance. You need more estrogen if your test is running higher. When you introduce compounds that lower estrodial levels while your test is still soaring youll feel low e2 symptoms at "normal levels". I dont think there is a ratio per say because responses are so individualized, but I agree with the thought of a balance that if thrown off too much can cause issues.

Also been told regardless of symptoms, over 60 you manage it. Even if you like it there, its best to ensure your not going over. If its a small difference, using DIM supplement to help the body process/discard estrogen more efficiently along with doing daily injections may be enough to maintain it there. But its another one of those trial and error things with labs involved.

I personally try everything I can before resorting to AI use. High e2 may be bad, but crashed e2 seems worse to me.
Havent quite experienced crash myself, but have experienced low/high estrogen and can only imagine it feeling like death.

Thanks. Sounds reeasonable.

I dont doubt very high estrogen will have deleterious effects. However It does interest me that that some people have no symptoms whatsoever. If you do treat with an ai then you could end up too low and get symptoms (after not having symptoms in the first place).

Id like to hear more from folks who believe they should let e2 run as high as possible without symptoms.

 

[Eddie.]

Thanks. Sounds reeasonable.

I dont doubt very high estrogen will have deleterious effects. However It does interest me that that some people have no symptoms whatsoever. If you do treat with an ai then you could end up too low and get symptoms (after not having symptoms in the first place).

Id like to hear more from folks who believe they should let e2 run as high as possible without symptoms.

Just, why? What is the reason of letting e2 go high even if you don’t have symptoms? With that logic, if I have a bp of 170/100 with zero symptoms and feel good overall, I should let it go as high as it wants and intervene only if I have nosebleeds, right?

There’s studies presenting side effects of high e2 in men while zero studies presenting any benefits.

Also, if someone is incompetent to dial in e2 without constantly crashing it with AIs then IMO he shouldn’t dabble with gear at all.

For the record, i feel the same with e2 at 35 and 105. Zero symptoms. This spike was a mistake with hcg, I’m keeping it year round at 35-50 unless an unfortunate circumstance happens. I do frequent bloodwork though to catch early any fluctuations.

 

[BigDadd7]

Just, why? What is the reason of letting e2 go high even if you don’t have symptoms? With that logic, if I have a bp of 170/100 with zero symptoms and feel good overall, I should let it go as high as it wants and intervene only if I have nosebleeds, right?

There’s studies presenting side effects of high e2 in men while zero studies presenting any benefits.

Also, if someone is incompetent to dial in e2 without constantly crashing it with AIs then IMO he shouldn’t dabble with gear at all.

For the record, i feel the same with e2 at 35 and 105. Zero symptoms. This spike was a mistake with hcg, I’m keeping it year round at 35-50 unless an unfortunate circumstance happens. I do frequent bloodwork though to catch early any fluctuations.

As someone who recently crashed his e2, I still agree with you.

 

[JK1]

Just, why? What is the reason of letting e2 go high even if you don’t have symptoms? With that logic, if I have a bp of 170/100 with zero symptoms and feel good overall, I should let it go as high as it wants and intervene only if I have nosebleeds, right?

There’s studies presenting side effects of high e2 in men while zero studies presenting any benefits.

Also, if someone is incompetent to dial in e2 without constantly crashing it with AIs then IMO he shouldn’t dabble with gear at all.

Yeah, I dont disagree.

I was just curious to understand why some might want it high minus any symptoms. Im sure I've read (not here) some praise higher e2 without symptoms.

Also agree on the ai use. Its a case of careful and incremental dose adjustment.

 

[JK1]

For the record, i feel the same with e2 at 35 and 105. Zero symptoms. This spike was a mistake with hcg, I’m keeping it year round at 35-50 unless an unfortunate circumstance happens. I do frequent bloodwork though to catch early any fluctuations.

Useful to know. Assume you use an ai ?

 

[k710]

Yeah, I dont disagree.

I was just curious to understand why some might want it high minus any symptoms. Im sure I've read (not here) some praise higher e2 without symptoms.

Also agree on the ai use. Its a case of careful and incremental dose adjustment.

The argument is probably an extreme against the "estrogen is evil" narrative thats been going on since I first started researching. Estrogen is good, its neuroprotective and has a ton of benefits. But like with everything, theres a limit and balance to be maintained

 

[Eddie.]

As someone who recently crashed his e2, I still agree with you.

Oh, I've been there too just 2 weeks ago. 500 test and 250 EQ previously had me at 35pg/ml and this year it landed at 20 which is too low for my liking. Thankfully i catched it early and adjusted the dosages.

Useful to know. Assume you use an ai ?

Not too often, i mostly use aromasin if i go 250mg test solo and upwards. That doesn't happen often though because i leveraged primo or EQ in my cycles and they both drive my e2 very low. I was using a lot in my early days when i was taking HCG, that thing even with 200mg test and 37,5mg aromasin a week sent my e2 at 105.