Liter O' Test
Member
gregg doucette does 600ng/dl , I've been doing this since May.
isnt most of muscle gain/retention androgen receptor density anyway?
isnt most of muscle gain/retention androgen receptor density anyway?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Optimal Testosterone Level
- Thread starter Tdeck81
- Start date
Tdeck81
Banned
You need to rationalize your goals. 350mg of test and deca is a cycle, not a starting cruise dose. You should cruise lower than that, and not stay on deca 24/7.
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At this point I have no hard plans, I’m definitely open to advice. A few guys mentioned getting the joint relief of deca at doses as low as 50mg a week. I chose 100mg because that seemed to be more of an anecdotal consensus. It was also discussed that either of those doses could be run long term.
The second reason was another anecdotal consensus that keeping the ratio of test to deca at 2:1 is a good place to start. Of course adjustments will probably be needed dictated via bloodwork and “feels”.
My natural test level was 522, checked a week ago. I figured start at 250mg of test c a week just to see how I respond and give enough of a bump to make it “worth” it. At my 6 month mark I was going add in the deca, still a ways off. I only started on Test Monday.
If it would be a better (safer/smarter) option to reduce the test dose when incorporating the deca, I’m good with that. Something like 200mg Test C and 50mg deca? I’m in no rush and only tried modeling a plan off advice in various threads. Which as you can guess has a wide range.
I’ve got a ton of great information from some really good guys here. But now I’m actually trying to implement some of it.
Thanks for the suggestions
[/QUOTE]
At this point I have no hard plans, I’m definitely open to advice. A few guys mentioned getting the joint relief of deca at doses as low as 50mg a week. I chose 100mg because that seemed to be more of an anecdotal consensus. It was also discussed that either of those doses could be run long term.
The second reason was another anecdotal consensus that keeping the ratio of test to deca at 2:1 is a good place to start. Of course adjustments will probably be needed dictated via bloodwork and “feels”.
My natural test level was 522, checked a week ago. I figured start at 250mg of test c a week just to see how I respond and give enough of a bump to make it “worth” it. At my 6 month mark I was going add in the deca, still a ways off. I only started on Test Monday.
If it would be a better (safer/smarter) option to reduce the test dose when incorporating the deca, I’m good with that. Something like 200mg Test C and 50mg deca? I’m in no rush and only tried modeling a plan off advice in various threads. Which as you can guess has a wide range.
I’ve got a ton of great information from some really good guys here. But now I’m actually trying to implement some of it.
Thanks for the suggestions
Tdeck81
Banned
Im not familiar with Greg Doucette, but I assume it’s the Coach Greg I’ve seen members refer to. I’ll have to take a look at his protocol. I’ve been subscribing to different sources if they have YouTube channels.
The ped side to lifting is all brand new to me. Long time gym rat coming back from multiple joint issues/surgeries. The main reason I started the journey was looking for joint support but that’s really my only caveat
Liter O' Test
Member
oh i totally read your post wrong thught this was in context of trt
"What I’ve been trying to find is an ideal testosterone level for anabolism."
i think testosterone is over rated, need multiple pathways etc
Tdeck81
Banned
i think testosterone is over rated, need multiple pathways etc
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I’ve seen a few guys on here with the same opinion. I have no practical experience to speak of, so I just keep an open mind. From what I’ve read testosterone is generally a good starting point. Appreciate the coach greg mention. I subscribed to his channel and will check out a few videos
[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen a few guys on here with the same opinion. I have no practical experience to speak of, so I just keep an open mind. From what I’ve read testosterone is generally a good starting point. Appreciate the coach greg mention. I subscribed to his channel and will check out a few videos
Wizbang
Member
I think you're going about this pretty logically. Do the research, make sure your test is what it says it is (so you're not under or overdosing or not dosing at all) and listen to your body, check bloods and go from there. Safe travels on your journey.
If you highlight the text from a post you can choose either the reply or quote function. Both are handy if you want to try it out.
sionnach
Banned
The smarter safer option was not to jump on the juice, bro.
Tdeck81
Banned
I agree. For me it’s potentially worth the risk. If I can cheat Father Time a little and help reduce some aching joints, I’ll take the gamble.
I’ve been in and out of gyms for close to 20 years. I have no problem going back natty if I feel this it’s not right for me. I appreciate the feedback though
Tdeck81
Banned
That was a little easier. I’m working off an old iPhone. On my MacBook all the functions are a little smoother. Lol
Liter O' Test
Member
just keep your test at that dose and then dial in your estrogen and after a while of monitoring lipids and bp and your mood THEN MAYBE decide to add deca. deca can affect estrogen sides on bloodwork and off bloodwork nd many report mood side effects from even low doses. just ride out that bit of test for awhile until everything is stabilized and dialed in like 4 months atleast. (obviously get test/estrogen before 4 months). then consider low dose compounds for your goals.
Im over test for the moment and going to see how this low trt and stacking anabolics on top works for me.
last time I did something like this i was just taking anadrol on TRT and i didnt have any major problems.
but if i could do it all over again I would slowly taper up the test with some cruises in between
Im over test for the moment and going to see how this low trt and stacking anabolics on top works for me.
last time I did something like this i was just taking anadrol on TRT and i didnt have any major problems.
but if i could do it all over again I would slowly taper up the test with some cruises in between
rexy
Member
Testosterone is a good starting point because it provides the functions of aromatising androgens in the most well tolerated and manageable fashion - i.e easy to track/mitigate sides, provides IGF-1 increases, no deca dick, no fuckery. It also supports basal sexual function. Liter o' Test doesn't mean to look totally beyond it, just to see what level of it works for you.
If you're looking to play it safer, you'd be wise to start looking at utilising the synergy of different compounds, mostly meaning learning how to integrate HGH and Insulin from an early stage. Ignore the fear mongering of insulin - it's easily managed with anyone who can rub 2 brain cells together and it can reduce the dose of HGH needed for it's anabolic effects.
These are some of the additional pathways Liter o' Test alluded to. A.k.a synergy.
HGH is great for lipolysis and anti-catabolic effects. Also promotes hyperplasia. GH stimulates the liver to make IGF-1—but only efficiently in the presence of sufficient insulin.
HGH acts as the “on-switch”. It'll stimulate the liver to produce IGF-1, but the process is insulin-dependent—the liver requires a baseline level of insulin to efficiently convert GH into IGF-1. Insulin acts as a sort of amplifier.
When both are present, insulin increases the liver’s sensitivity to GH, resulting in a greater IGF-1 output from a given GH dose. That means adding insulin allows you to milk out more IGF-1 per unit of HGH
Insulin also works in local muscle cells in a way that's similar to Tren - it makes local muscle cells more sensitive to IGF-1, which is ultimately what we want - not just high blood levels.
All this means synergy that can reduce doses across the board because each compound boosts the effectiveness of the other.
- HGH means total AAS load can be lower as it covers anti-catabolic effects and raises IGF-1.
- smart Insulin use means total HGH dose can be lower (because muscles can do more with less, akin to Tren, meaning for anabolism, higher HGH isn't necessary).
Additional AAS can offer other benefits, either for E2 support, visual impact, or strength - but outside of competitive goals, Test/HGH/Insulin goes most of the way. Tren is the icing on the cake for synergy, and other AAS offer unique benefits to add ontop. But if you're keeping it as safe as possible, the Test/HGH/Insulin trio can replicate most of the unique AAS effects to a level that is sufficient for the average gym bro.
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Tdeck81
Banned
I’ve seen a few threads discussing the trio, or trinity, and it is something on the back burner for me. Test and deca don’t seem as daunting to me…probably because the concepts are a little more familiar.
Not that I’ve done a lot of research on the subject but I’ve seen some anecdotal reports hgh exasperated some joint issues and carpal tunnel. Both of which I suffer from. That’s my main motivation for the nandrolone, joint relief.
Its a good thing you have enough sense to be daunted by talk of insulin and tren. That's stupid at this point. You should stick to basics and gain experience with one compound at a time.
HGH is partial to the person. Some people get carpel tunnel and joint pain. Lots of this diminishes in a few weeks. Most people (myself included) feel great and rebuild beat up joints. I've had surgeries and lots of injuries. My 70 pound bow feels like a kids setup now after a few rounds of hgh and bpc. That's HUGE progress for me.
Ive been in the AAS game for a long time, but had a long layoff. My process getting back at a slightly older age than you was get on 120mg/wk of test. Once it balances out, add low hgh and peptides. Blast and adjust as needed.
HGH is partial to the person. Some people get carpel tunnel and joint pain. Lots of this diminishes in a few weeks. Most people (myself included) feel great and rebuild beat up joints. I've had surgeries and lots of injuries. My 70 pound bow feels like a kids setup now after a few rounds of hgh and bpc. That's HUGE progress for me.
Ive been in the AAS game for a long time, but had a long layoff. My process getting back at a slightly older age than you was get on 120mg/wk of test. Once it balances out, add low hgh and peptides. Blast and adjust as needed.
Tdeck81
Banned
I was thinking maybe Hgh after a solid year of Test. A couple sources claim low dose Hgh can replace up to 50% of the anabolic load. Sounds good in theory if it agrees with me. Lower doses with lower side effects but the same results. I find it interesting but as you stated I’m not there yet
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