Yes, the key in my mind is understanding that free T is eliminated from the body. Not Total. Total just represent dynamic equilibrium between SHBG and free T plus the weakly HSA bound T.well you would have to understand how testosterone worksi cant imagine 99% of people running it dont know how it works
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Oxandrolone lowered total testosterone 36% while on TRT?
- Thread starter deadbeef
- Start date
Thank you. Hope it helps. Alot of credit to Cataceous at ExcelMale who tirelessly tried to educate on this. The protein binding paper truly demonstrates a picture is worth a thousand words. Not quite sure if that was 1000 words up there in that post but only a true fucking idiot posts this stuff in a forum lol.
Got it, thanks. What are the consequences of eliminating more T when on oxandrolone? I always hear that lower SHBG is better, but now that I understand what you've said, I'm not so sure.
I didn't say that. Oxandrolone lowers SHBG.
From opening post it is clear (if all else is equal in OP's injection frequency, etc) that his clearance of free T was not changed appreciably (his FT stayed the same) using oxandrolone.
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Bump OP.
You may want to sticky this @MESO-Rx Administrator.
Could help alot of folks!!
Help combat Brandolini's Law with one simple sticky.
Could help alot of folks!!
Help combat Brandolini's Law with one simple sticky.
Vermeulen calculation. The direct FT measurement was basically the same as Vermeulen.
TT: ng/dL
FT: pg/mL
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What is in my head:
If SHBG is lowered and TT is lowered, the amount that was formerly bound and in TT has become FT. Since measured FT doesn't go up, the extra FT must have been eliminated.
What am I missing?
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Kralteramon
Member
My thinking is that the extra FT was used up by the upregulated amount of receptors. Or got metabolised some other way.. I don't know
Direct FT basically worthless. Only units that make sense above would be ng/dl for free T values you shared. Thanks for clarifying.
Vermeulen usually pretty close to equilibrium dialysis measurement (within 20%).
Kralteramon
Member
I've read your explanation on the Help Understanding Bloodwork post about what happens when SHBG lowers:
So if SHBG was instantaneously cut in half then you'd see a temporary blip of a few minutes where serum free T would elevate above baseline then decay back to baseline.
If SHBG more slowly dropped in half over the course of a week you'd see practically no change in serum free T levels. Great question on the dynamics of the system.
I wonder is there any benefit in lowering SHBG at all? Guess I'll be throwing boron out of my supplement shopping list.
I don't see one. Myth.
Kralteramon
Member
Busted
Oops, yes. I quoted the direct measurement units rather than the Vermeulen units. The Vermeulen units are ng/dL.
dinfar1337
New Member
in this case; you took anavar so the bound free t to the shbg got slashed over and your system replaced that with unactive testosterone from your total tt. if that makes sense. hence relative ft % : total tt will rise in ft % favor.
(something like this i dont understand the full mechanics behind it)
it provides a benefit because the ANAVAR needed something from your output to make more input
using something to lower shbg like proviron would serve no purpose since you're just lowering your shbg too much(not good), and artificially raising you free t(for no reason no anavar to push it into your ar receptors)
now if you have high shbg, we might be onto something.
i hope you can understand me a little better than readalot im slower than him
I don't think this is correct. @readalot is saying lowering your shbg does not raise your free testosterone. It's bro science.
dinfar1337
New Member
it will not, that is also what i said. for oxa case.
but if you have high shbg and use provirion you will temporarily unless you're natural.
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This is where we differ. He says that the lower shbg does not raise free T. I'm reading the links he has provided and they also are saying lowering shbg does not raise free T. Does proviron raise free T by some other mechanism?
It will now have to be repeated back by others so true learning can happen. I genuinely ask anyone to read the writeup on dynamic approach to new steady state (shared in linked post above) and provide critique if there is something amiss.
@Type-IIx
@Jin23
@PeterBond
@Millard
Anyone else?
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