Pause Squats

[Docd187123]

Thanks. Interesting to know the way it all works and here I was thinking it just made light shit heavy. I like trying new things but understanding the whys of how things work is interesting in itself.

You're welcome. It does make light shit heavy lol but this is the why portion of it. Like I said paused squats and box squats are both excellent lifts but you must understand how each works when compared to a regular squat to know how to implement them into your training. They both carryover to a normal back squat but believe it or not, bc of the lack of stretch reflex and a subsequent start from a dead stop in which the hamstrings must overcome gravity and the force of the weight on your back to lift you back to the top of the squat, they also carryover to your deadlift as well. In a deadlift there is no stretch reflex. You perform a concentric contraction to lift the bar off the ground and lock it up but it's not preceded by an eccentric contraction bc you start from the floor. That's why deads are such a brutal lift and difficult to recover from. They're so taxing bc you're moving the weight from a dead stop.

 

[weighted chinup]

Now when you break parallel in a squat your hamstrings are being maximally contracted or close to it from both ends. What happens whe. You stretch a rubber band and let it go? It flies off like a slingshot. Same happens to muscles. When you begin your ascent, the hamstrings are stretched then let go if like a rubber band when the ascent is began. This is the stretch reflex of the squat. It looks like a little bounce at the bottom but is part of the lift (some ppl call it cheating but this couldn't be further from the truth.

This is an excellent way of describing myotatic reflex, the slingshot comparison is spot on and easy to grasp.

Piggy backing off Docs comprehensive answer, I will also add that a stretch reflex will give a movement / rep a more powerful concentric contraction because of the elastic energy that was stored in the tissue of the relevant muscle group during the eccentric contraction. The deep extension of the eccentric contraction spools up the myotatic reflex and the stored energy allows you to shoot up with a stronger concentric contraction. This is the same explanation Verkoshanky gave in Supertraining I believe too, so I will give credit to that monster book for my explanation.

One of the reasons why Dumbbell Incline pressing is so hyped up as being a great movement to bring up a lagging chest is because it allows the lifter to make use of an agressive myotatic reflex. RDL's are another movement where making use of the stretch reflex is ideal. In both instances I believe it is fair to say that the stretch reflex increases the amount of muscle contraction on each rep, making it a useful tool for hypertrophy as well as performance.

 

[Maxlass]

Wasn't what I was expecting but loving the replies. Cheers.

 

[Docd187123]

This is an excellent way of describing myotatic reflex, the slingshot comparison is spot on and easy to grasp.

Piggy backing off Docs comprehensive answer, I will also add that a stretch reflex will give a movement / rep a more powerful concentric contraction because of the elastic energy that was stored in the tissue of the relevant muscle group during the eccentric contraction. The deep extension of the eccentric contraction spools up the myotatic reflex and the stored energy allows you to shoot up with a stronger concentric contraction. This is the same explanation Verkoshanky gave in Supertraining I believe too, so I will give credit to that monster book for my explanation.

One of the reasons why Dumbbell Incline pressing is so hyped up as being a great movement to bring up a lagging chest is because it allows the lifter to make use of an agressive myotatic reflex. RDL's are another movement where making use of the stretch reflex is ideal. In both instances I believe it is fair to say that the stretch reflex increases the amount of muscle contraction on each rep, making it a useful tool for hypertrophy as well as performance.

I love it when you talk dirty to me.

Great response. Also, I never knew they called it myotstic reflex. Learn something new every day!

 

[Docd187123]

The best book I own in regards to from for the big compound lifts (squats, OHP, deadlifts, bench press, and cleans) is Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. It's in print or on kindle from the amazon store. It's the second favorite book I own. I have it in print and in my iPad lol. If you decide to buy it gomfor the updated 3rd edition.

Other books for form are anatomy, physiology, and kinesiology textbooks. Often times you can get these cheap from libraries or students sell them at the end of the semester. These are great for learning how different muscles leotard together and so much more.

Other sources of info on form for particular lifts: Louie Simmons, Dave Tate, the Lilliebridges, Bill Starr, Justin Lascek, James DeFranco, Bill Starr, etc etc. Many more ppl. These are obviously trending to powerlifting but the lessons can be applied to any goal. I go their websites and read articles from them wherever I can find them. Louie for example has amazing articles on bench and good mornings, the eliteFTS site has amazing info on all sorts of important lifts like good mornings, jm presses, box squats squats In general, etc Etc.

 

[Docd187123]

If you're into Oly lifting there are a ton of good authors on that topic as well. Hell, any of the old eastern bloc coaches come to mind. Abadzhiev, Medvedev, etc.

 

[weighted chinup]

The best book I own in regards to from for the big compound lifts (squats, OHP, deadlifts, bench press, and cleans) is Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. It's in print or on kindle from the amazon store. It's the second favorite book I own. I have it in print and in my iPad lol. If you decide to buy it gomfor the updated 3rd edition.

Other books for form are anatomy, physiology, and kinesiology textbooks. Often times you can get these cheap from libraries or students sell them at the end of the semester. These are great for learning how different muscles leotard together and so much more.

Other sources of info on form for particular lifts: Louie Simmons, Dave Tate, the Lilliebridges, Bill Starr, Justin Lascek, James DeFranco, Bill Starr, etc etc. Many more ppl. These are obviously trending to powerlifting but the lessons can be applied to any goal. I go their websites and read articles from them wherever I can find them. Louie for example has amazing articles on bench and good mornings, the eliteFTS site has amazing info on all sorts of important lifts like good mornings, jm presses, box squats squats In general, etc Etc.

I was waiting for the book suggestions to start rolling in.

Rippetoe has videos for the different movements on youtube as well, they are phenomenal. His guide for the Romanian Deadlift is probably the best I've seen.

I will give a few recommendations for any member interested in programming and general training concepts. The 3 books I would suggest are, in no particular order as they are all superb -

• Practical Programming for Strength Training by Mark Rippetoe

• Science and Practice of Strength Training 2nd Edition by Vladimir Zatsiorsky and William Kraemer

• Supertraining by Yuri Verkoshanky and Mel Siff

I know Rippetoe's book is readily available for purchase, digitally too I believe and the price is very cheap. The other two are a bit more expensive and probably harder to find. I generally use them as a resource if there is something I need to know.

I will also add that anyone looking for books that explain human movements and how it relates to exercise should read anything they can get by Zatsiorsky. Kinematics of Human Motion, etc. He has many books on this subject.

I have a few sites that I read for articles about training related subjects, programming etc. I will add them as I remember them, here are a few for now.

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/articles.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20050208002100/http://qwa.org/articles/tmethod.asp

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/ EVERYTHING on this site is fucking gold.

http://www.drmelsiff.com/

 

[Docd187123]

I was waiting for the book suggestions to start rolling in.

Rippetoe has videos for the different movements on youtube as well, they are phenomenal. His guide for the Romanian Deadlift is probably the best I've seen.

I will give a few recommendations for any member interested in programming and general training concepts. The 3 books I would suggest are, in no particular order as they are all superb -

• Practical Programming for Strength Training by Mark Rippetoe

• Science and Practice of Strength Training 2nd Edition by Vladimir Zatsiorsky and William Kraemer

• Supertraining by Yuri Verkoshanky and Mel Siff

I know Rippetoe's book is readily available for purchase, digitally too I believe and the price is very cheap. The other two are a bit more expensive and probably harder to find. I generally use them as a resource if there is something I need to know.

I will also add that anyone looking for books that explain human movements and how it relates to exercise should read anything they can get by Zatsiorsky. Kinematics of Human Motion, etc. He has many books on this subject.

I have a few sites that I read for articles about training related subjects, programming etc. I will add them as I remember them, here are a few for now.

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/articles.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20050208002100/http://qwa.org/articles/tmethod.asp

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/ EVERYTHING on this site is fucking gold.

http://www.drmelsiff.com/

At least now Ozzy and JBZ can't call me a dipshit lol.

I don't know how the hell I could leave out Zatiorsky. Even Rippetoe mentions him a lot.

I mentioned Starting Strength as my second favorite book...well practical Programming is my absolute favorite lol. Yes it is available electronically as well. I have the 3rd edition on my iPad and it's a fantastic read. That's a great list of authors too. It seems like most of the authors we follow are more old school in their approaches. I think the prevalence of drugs nowadays has reduced the need for optimal training as the drugs can get you by with subpar programming.

 

[romaleos]

Too many NERDS in here! Just lift heavy shit!

LOL j/k but not really. Jealous I couldn't contribute to the S&C geek session.

 

[Docd187123]

Too many NERDS in here! Just lift heavy shit!

LOL j/k but not really. Jealous I couldn't contribute to the S&C geek session.

Can't contribute? When I first began posting on this forum I always got you and WeightedChinup mixed up as both of you were giving training advice that I found myself nodding my head to lol. I'm sure you have something to add that we either don't know about or forgot to mention here.

I don't know about WC but nerd is a title I'll take any day when it comes to training lol.

 

[weighted chinup]

I don't know about WC but nerd is a title I'll take any day when it comes to training lol.

Absolutely.

Anything to be more like this guy.....

 

[Docd187123]

Absolutely.

Anything to be more like this guy.....

Verkhoshansky....nicely done

 

[ruckin]

10/10 thread. Docd and WC you guys never cease to provide invaluable info for all of us.

I looked into buying supertraining awhile back but I couldn't find it for less than $200 :/ so I gave up.

And @romaleos quit being so modest lol. I know that you know what you're doing as a s&c coach, and you're probably the MESO expert on oly lifting as well.

 

[romaleos]

Ok here is my 2 cents for the OP and topic of this thread. Stolen from WC's training program.

Add tempo to the eccentric phase of the pause squat. For example: 5 seconds down, 3 seconds in the hole, and fast as you can on the concentric.

This will add time under tension which translates to hypertrophic gains. It sucks, hurts like hell, and you may throw up. But as you know that's the best part about training.

 

[Ozzy619]

I was waiting for the book suggestions to start rolling in.

Rippetoe has videos for the different movements on youtube as well, they are phenomenal. His guide for the Romanian Deadlift is probably the best I've seen.

I will give a few recommendations for any member interested in programming and general training concepts. The 3 books I would suggest are, in no particular order as they are all superb -

• Practical Programming for Strength Training by Mark Rippetoe

• Science and Practice of Strength Training 2nd Edition by Vladimir Zatsiorsky and William Kraemer

• Supertraining by Yuri Verkoshanky and Mel Siff

I know Rippetoe's book is readily available for purchase, digitally too I believe and the price is very cheap. The other two are a bit more expensive and probably harder to find. I generally use them as a resource if there is something I need to know.

I will also add that anyone looking for books that explain human movements and how it relates to exercise should read anything they can get by Zatsiorsky. Kinematics of Human Motion, etc. He has many books on this subject.

I have a few sites that I read for articles about training related subjects, programming etc. I will add them as I remember them, here are a few for now.

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/articles.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20050208002100/http://qwa.org/articles/tmethod.asp

http://www.verkhoshansky.com/ EVERYTHING on this site is fucking gold.

http://www.drmelsiff.com/

Damn, mad props on these links. Ill have to bookmark by this post

 

[Ozzy619]

A muscle connects to the skeleton at a minimum of two point by way of tendons. The hamstrings for example, to use our squat and stretch reflex topic, attaches at the knee and at the hips. The quadriceps open the knee or cause knee extension while the hamstrings cause knee flexion and also flex the knee medially when bent (think of turning your knee in towards the other side of your body while it's bent). Whike the hamstrings cause knee flexion on one end, at the other end they open uo the hips or cause hip extension. This is the base of hip drive. When coming out the hole from a squat you don't want to think push the floor with your feet. You want to imagine someone has a chain hooked to the small of your back, right above your ass crack, and is pulling up on the chain from above ie hip drive.

So the further down you go in a squat, the more your hamstrings get stretched to a point. Close the knee angle too much and the hamstrings get shortened like what happens in a front squat (imagine the knee angle of each: back squat has more open knee angle than front squat does). At one end knee flexion is happening and as the knee angle closes the hamstring gets stretched from one end. At the other attachment point at the hips, the hip angle closes at the bottom which stretches the hamstring. By opening up or breaking at the hips to come back up the hamstring must. so to recap the hamstring at the bottom of the squat is contracted proximally by the hips and pelvis and distally by the knee flexion.

Now when you break parallel in a squat your hamstrings are being maximally contracted or close to it from both ends. What happens whe. You stretch a rubber band and let it go? It flies off like a slingshot. Same happens to muscles. When you begin your ascent, the hamstrings are stretched then let go if like a rubber band when the ascent is began. This is the stretch reflex of the squat. It looks like a little bounce at the bottom but is part of the lift (some ppl call it cheating but this couldn't be further from the truth.

This bounce/stretch reflex/rebound/etc is an important part of a full ROM back squat. Bc of it, it allows you to squat more weight since it aids in the ascent from the toughest point of the squat leverage wise. Box squats and paused squats remove the rebound/stretch if the hamstrings. You either sit down and back onto a box or pause at the bottom of the squat in a paused squat. Which means the hams must concentrically contract (shorten aka the concentric portion of the lift) after eccentrically contracting (lengthen aka the eccentric portion) without a bounce. This stops all movement and when you begin to accelerate up you must do so from a dead stop and without this rebound effect making the lift harder bc the hamstrings cannot "bounce" back.



You're on the right track. Learning good form and how the lifts operate muscle wise can help you a lot with your training and programming. By understanding how the muscles interact with each other and operate will help in many aspects. Programming though is much more complicated than just this. For programming you need to understand periodization, single and dual factor theory, conjugated periodization, block periodization, etc to name a few and all about the stress and adaptation response (Seyle's General theory of adaptation), fitness and fatigue and how they oppose each other, muscle fiber recruitment (how different rep and set schemes affect the different types of hypertrophy, etc etc. It's a very detailed process but to be honest it's also one of the funniest to learn about.

Shit doc, I didnt think you were on that level of knowledge, pretty damn impressive and explained alot that I honestly had no idea about. Actually opens the doors for improving my entire squat game and adding more weight now that Im grasping the mechanics behind them. But I have to be honest, you lost me once again when you started talking about periodization, but looks like wc posted some links that could possibly have that info. I have to say the more I learn the more I want to learn. I just got some ACE fitness books and paid for the test, thinking about getting certified and doig something I like for once.

 

[weighted chinup]

Shit doc, I didnt think you were on that level of knowledge, pretty damn impressive and explained alot that I honestly had no idea about. Actually opens the doors for improving my entire squat game and adding more weight now that Im grasping the mechanics behind them. But I have to be honest, you lost me once again when you started talking about periodization, but looks like wc posted some links that could possibly have that info. I have to say the more I learn the more I want to learn. I just got some ACE fitness books and paid for the test, thinking about getting certified and doig something I like for once.

I will put together a post with some links with good articles covering different periodization techniques and some other related concepts in a little bit. I would certainly recommend looking into one of the 3 books I mentioned earlier if you want something that covers pretty much all of these concepts with good detail. I would suggest Practical Programming or Science and Practice, Supertraining makes my brain melt if I read too much of it, it works better for me as a resource / encyclopedia lol.

 

[Ozzy619]

I will put together a post with some links with good articles covering different periodization techniques and some other related concepts in a little bit. I would certainly recommend looking into one of the 3 books I mentioned earlier if you want something that covers pretty much all of these concepts with good detail. I would suggest Practical Programming or Science and Practice, Supertraining makes my brain melt if I read too much of it, it works better for me as a resource / encyclopedia lol.

I think a thread with this info would be extremely helpful. I spent all last year relearning everything from the ground up, alot of wasted time. Looks like I could possibly be rebuilding my foundation once more. I think alot of guys just go in and lift without understanding whats really going on and therefore not meeting ones full potential. Ill look into getting one of those books, but the links you posted will keep me busy in the mean time. I book marked the post so I can have a reference on my free time.

 

[brutus79]

I will put together a post with some links with good articles covering different periodization techniques and some other related concepts in a little bit. I would certainly recommend looking into one of the 3 books I mentioned earlier if you want something that covers pretty much all of these concepts with good detail. I would suggest Practical Programming or Science and Practice, Supertraining makes my brain melt if I read too much of it, it works better for me as a resource / encyclopedia lol.

Sounds like a training sticky to me!

 

[CensoredBoardsSuck]

You're welcome. It does make light shit heavy lol but this is the why portion of it. Like I said paused squats and box squats are both excellent lifts but you must understand how each works when compared to a regular squat to know how to implement them into your training. They both carryover to a normal back squat but believe it or not, bc of the lack of stretch reflex and a subsequent start from a dead stop in which the hamstrings must overcome gravity and the force of the weight on your back to lift you back to the top of the squat, they also carryover to your deadlift as well. In a deadlift there is no stretch reflex. You perform a concentric contraction to lift the bar off the ground and lock it up but it's not preceded by an eccentric contraction bc you start from the floor. That's why deads are such a brutal lift and difficult to recover from. They're so taxing bc you're moving the weight from a dead stop.

This is an excellent way of describing myotatic reflex, the slingshot comparison is spot on and easy to grasp.

Piggy backing off Docs comprehensive answer, I will also add that a stretch reflex will give a movement / rep a more powerful concentric contraction because of the elastic energy that was stored in the tissue of the relevant muscle group during the eccentric contraction. The deep extension of the eccentric contraction spools up the myotatic reflex and the stored energy allows you to shoot up with a stronger concentric contraction. This is the same explanation Verkoshanky gave in Supertraining I believe too, so I will give credit to that monster book for my explanation.

One of the reasons why Dumbbell Incline pressing is so hyped up as being a great movement to bring up a lagging chest is because it allows the lifter to make use of an agressive myotatic reflex. RDL's are another movement where making use of the stretch reflex is ideal. In both instances I believe it is fair to say that the stretch reflex increases the amount of muscle contraction on each rep, making it a useful tool for hypertrophy as well as performance.

I rarely spend time in this sub-forum and had no idea there were so many Mark Rippetoe and old school lifting fans here. I second (or third) the book recommendations, especially Starting Strength - everybody should have a copy.

Rippetoe just released these videos on the mechanics of the back squat and uses demonstrations to explain the same points you two are discussing, i.e., hip drive, hamstring reflex, lumbar rounding/relaxation at too great a depth, etc.