XmadXscientist
Well-known Member
Anyone used these in their brews before? I have 100ml of each on the way to expirement with bases and see if it helps hold higher concentration without guaiacol.
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
PEG 400 and 600
- Thread starter XmadXscientist
- Start date
master.on
New Member
Interesting
in case you hit a vein, low dose PEG-400 is rather safe
Dry mouth and dry nasal mucus membrane were observed in dogs treated with 6.34 and 8.45 g/kg of PEG-400...
Systemic toxicity and toxicokinetics of a high dose of polyethylene glycol 400 in dogs following intravenous injection. - PubMed - NCBI
safe indeed
Which is the recommended dilution rate for the PEG 400 to be...
again, safe
http://www.jpharmsci.org/article/S0095-9553(15)32402-1/pdf
1 So please enlighten us to see if your favorite steroids are any more soluble in PEGs than in oil.
2 IMO PEG 200 may be preferable to 400 or 600 as it's less thick
3 A meso guy tried it and hurt
PEG 300?? can it be injected?
but at 10% BA! + 10% BB it's impossible to know if it hurts because of high BA.
4 PEGs absorb water
so you'll need to heat them in a shallow pan to dry water out (do not burn them though)
5 Again, keep us posted on your solubility experiments. Sounds interesting.
XmadXscientist
Well-known Member
Update:
PEG600 was solid at room temp.
Tried making test base 100 using 20%BB and 20% PEG 400 and normal brewing process. There was some separation but when heated everything combined perfectly. Once it got below 100 degrees the peg separated from the mixture and it crashed hard a little later.
Made test 50/tren 50/ var 20 with 3-40% BB 7-8% PEG 400 and 5% guaiacol. This has held so far for 4 days and the pip is better than the no guaiacol version.
My recommendation is 10% or less of the PEG 400 if you choose to experiment. Will be ordering PEG 300 for the next round.
PEG600 was solid at room temp.
Tried making test base 100 using 20%BB and 20% PEG 400 and normal brewing process. There was some separation but when heated everything combined perfectly. Once it got below 100 degrees the peg separated from the mixture and it crashed hard a little later.
Made test 50/tren 50/ var 20 with 3-40% BB 7-8% PEG 400 and 5% guaiacol. This has held so far for 4 days and the pip is better than the no guaiacol version.
My recommendation is 10% or less of the PEG 400 if you choose to experiment. Will be ordering PEG 300 for the next round.
master.on
New Member
Thank you for keeping us posted. Appreciate it.
Would you like to experiment with
hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin?
It is already proven to increase Testosterone solubility and is safe for injection
It would be nice to experiment:
1 If it makes Testosterone ESTERS water soluble
2 If it makes Testosterone ESTERS any more oil soluble
Hydroxypropyl cyclodextrins are nontoxic carbohydrate derivatives of moderate molecular weight (1030-1750 Da) which form water-soluble complexes with many lipophiles. The fate of hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin alone and in complex with testosterone or cholesterol injected intravenously or intracerebrally into rats was followed. More than 90% of intravenously administered hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin was cleared into urine in 4 h, as previously described (Monbaliu, J.; Van Beijsterveld, L.; Meuldermans, W.; Szathmary, S.; Haykants, J. Abstracts, 5th International Symposium on Cyclodextrins, Paris, 1990; Abstract 65). After the injection of steroids in complex with hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin into the tail vein of rats, the steroid component was released from the complex, before it reached the kidneys; the release occurred mainly into the proteins and lipoproteins of serum. Hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrins injected alone into the brain were cleared within less than 24 h, presumably via the flow of interstitial and cerebrospinal fluids, and eventually were excreted in urine. Testosterone, incorporated in a hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin complex, after intracerebral injection was cleared from the brain even more rapidly than hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin, presumably by crossing the blood-brain barrier and later removal to the liver by the specific carrier proteins in serum. Complexed cholesterol, in a similar experiment, was largely retained in the brain and its distribution there was uneven and remained that way for at least 3 days. It is clear that lipophilic agents, after their incorporation into hydroxypropyl beta-cyclodextrin complexes and subsequent in vivo administration, are rapidly released and exchanged into the plasma. In absence of plasma they enter tissues surrounding the injection site and thus are also promptly transferred into the organism's lipid systems. The manner in which different lipophilic agents are transported in vivo appears not to be greatly affected by their previous complexation; rather hydroxypropyl cyclodextrins just enable their entry in a larger amount and in an exchangeable, nonaggregated form.
Parenteral hydroxypropyl cyclodextrins: intravenous and intracerebral administration of lipophiles. - PubMed - NCBI
It is very safe for injection
2-Hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin (HP-beta-CD): a toxicology review. - PubMed - NCBI
2-Hydroxypropyl-β-cyclodextrin (HP-β-CD): A toxicology review - ScienceDirect
http://www.jpharmsci.org/article/S0022-3549(16)41410-3/pdf
It increases Andriol absorption
γ‐cyclodextrin: Testosterone complex suitable for sublingual administration
It increases Testosterone No Ester water solubility from 0.040 mg/ml to 39.8 mg/ml! Makes TNE a true solution, not suspension!
Patent WO1990001320A1 - Water soluble branched beta cyclodextrin steroid complex
$16.25/25 grams at Ebay
(2-Hydroxypropyl)-Beta-Cyclodextrin (HPBCD), 99.5% min., 25 grams | eBay
Sounds cheap as to begin experimenting
XmadXscientist
Well-known Member
I will start looking into it. Do you know somewhere to get it besides eBay? Some things being sold on there aren't what they say they are (migyol).
master.on
New Member
True laboratory grade (no BS):
Alfa Aesar
5 g $41.60, 25 g $131, 100 g $369
128446-35-5 - (2-Hydroxypropyl)-beta-cyclodextrin, MW ca 1250-1480 - H31133 - Alfa Aesar
Also
Search Results
Not too cheap
but 5 grams ain't unaffordable either, especially for earlier solubility/PIP experiments
Lab grade takes out the guesswork if product is real/pure.
P.S. You can buy top-quality first in order to experiment,
and if it seems to work then look for cheaper ones.
master.on
New Member
Some interesting experiments with hydroxypropyl-beta-cyclodextrin
1 See if water-based injectable Anadrol/Dianabol can be made
(maybe even Sdrol/Ment)
While it won't completely eliminate liver damage, injecting Adrol/Dbol is said to reduce it by half.
Water-based injection makes it convenient, as the thin slin pin gauge reduces PIP and can be injected in several bodyparts, both IM and subQ.
2 See if water-based injections of common oil-based injectables can be made.
i.e. Test, Tren, Deca, Eq, mast
Again water based allows thin slin pins to be used.
3 See if it can brew common injectables at higher concentrations (in oil), without additional BB.
4 See if typically injectable non-17aa steroids can be absorbed orally.
Links already proved it increases Andriol absorption.
Maybe it can make Deca, Eq effective orally?
Even if only 10% is absorbed, it will help those afraid of needles who want to run oral-only cycles.
1 See if water-based injectable Anadrol/Dianabol can be made
(maybe even Sdrol/Ment)
While it won't completely eliminate liver damage, injecting Adrol/Dbol is said to reduce it by half.
Water-based injection makes it convenient, as the thin slin pin gauge reduces PIP and can be injected in several bodyparts, both IM and subQ.
2 See if water-based injections of common oil-based injectables can be made.
i.e. Test, Tren, Deca, Eq, mast
Again water based allows thin slin pins to be used.
3 See if it can brew common injectables at higher concentrations (in oil), without additional BB.
4 See if typically injectable non-17aa steroids can be absorbed orally.
Links already proved it increases Andriol absorption.
Maybe it can make Deca, Eq effective orally?
Even if only 10% is absorbed, it will help those afraid of needles who want to run oral-only cycles.
Leancuisine
New Member
Esters would be a pointless thing to try to increase solubility of, as Test e and c can be held as high as 350mg/ml, and I have Test E sitting in 2% BA, 18% BB and EO at 600mg/ml steady now for 2 weeks. Doesn't get more soluble than that. Test phenylprop is easy to hold at 200. Test prop is pretty impossible for me to hold over 150. Test no ester..... don't even get me started.
The only hormone powder that I personally have ever had issues getting to hold at a high dose is TNE. Being, there is no eater attached to it, ester solubility would be, well just meh.
I do see a benefit for andriol though. That is if I'm thinking andriol is Test undecanoate. If you could get Test U to hold at 500mg/ml or even 600mg/ml, i think people would be a whole lot happier with that as a TRT replacement.
Leancuisine
New Member
As far as people scared of needles.... if something can increase the solubility, wouldn't a normal dose of test E/C at 250mg/ml be a lot smoother? Could allow people to pin with a slinpin. No pain. I can't even feel a 25g 5/8 needle. 27/29 would be painless
master.on
New Member
I was talking about WATER-based esters brews.
If beta-cyclodextrin makes it possuble, they all could be injected with a thin, slin-like pin.
Leancuisine
New Member
I don't think water would be too great of an option for long esters. I don't think I'm aware of a water based long ester?
