People exaggerating BB Row poundages

[Pablo34]

Hey bros,

I have to wonder about the poundages a lot of bros on here claim to do for reps on barbell rows. Let's put it this way, I'm not the strongest guy, and I do 225 for 7-8 reps while juicing. I understand a lot of guys can do more, but I am hearing things like 315x15, 365x10, 405x8, etc. I am wondering how much cheating is going into their form...or maybe I am doing them wrong?

Here is how I do mine: Barbell laying on floor, My feet are about 4 inches apart, slight bend in the knees. I have my back bent over at close to 90 degrees and try to look directly in front of my body (head up, eyes forward). I take a medium grip (too far outside and I have no strength in my back to pull it up, although range of motion is shortened a lot). I pull the bar up until it touches my upper abdominal region, and then I lower the bar until it 'almost' touches the floor (constant tension).

Either guys are cheating on their form and exaggerating their poundages, or I am not doing barbell rows the way most of the guys on here do them. Who can help?

 

[Beefy]

I just read an article by Dorian Yates about bent-over barbell rows. He said he always used an underhand grip because he felt it hit his back harder, but he did admit it could have been a factor in a biceps tear he suffered. The main thing I liked about his technique is that he didn't bend over to a full 90 degrees. Instead, he only went to about 70 degrees, because he said it allowed him to go heavier and it further isolated the upper part of his back.

I prefer the traditional over handed grip, but I do agree with Dorian about only going to 70 degrees. It takes stress off of my lower back and allows me to go heavier and really exhaust my back muscles.

Your technique looks fine to me, bro, although you might want to try one of the above variations and see if you like it. Another thing I do sometimes to change things up and shock my muscles is use a smith machine so I can go much heavier while maintaining good technique. I'm all about free weights, nothing else even comes close for mass & strength, but machines have their place in a great workout routine. If you feel like you've hit a plateau, try the smith machine and go extra heavy with the weights. The machine will lighten the weight by about 20-30 lbs., but you can easily compensate for that by adding even more weight, and the best thing about it is that it keeps you in track so your technique doesn't go to shit.

Good luck, bro. Hope I helped some.

 

[Pablo34]

Beefy,

Thanks for the info on this boring Thanksgiving Day. I actually use the regular overhand grip, I should've mentioned that earlier.

I guess I can bend my back only 70 degrees, but it just seems like it's cheating. But then again, maybe that's why most guys on here are doubling my weight on rows.

 

[Pablo34]

Wow, nobody else is responding. I would love to hear from some of the vets on this one before I go back into the gym to practice these.

 

[kenneth]

not a vet..

Pablo, I'm not a vet, however I will say that the reason is 100% because they are not bending to 90 degrees as you are. Picture this: do everything exactly as you are, except change the 90 degrees to 70 and pull the weight to your lower stomach rather than upper and that would be exactly how i do my rows. I previously had all the same questoins and these arethe answers i got, plus yates himself said rows aren't meant to be a pretty exercise, they are going to get ugly and grueling and the form isn't going to look perfect, nor is it going to be perfect. Doesn't he call his the "murderer's row"? Anyway I believe the end result is that if your form is too perfect in this particular exercise you're simply not going to be able to use the weight necessary to really smash your back muscles into growth. Don't quote me on this, maybe a vet will come in and let me know if they agree or not. Good luck and keep posting this is an excellent thread that could help many many people.

 

[Grizzly]

Courtesy of one Mr. JohnSmith182:

Barbell Rows are best by "starting with the bar on the floor every single rep. Your middle back will have slight bend to it. You pull the bar off the floor quickly with the arms, and by a powerful arch of your middle back. You finish by touching the bar to your upper stomach or middle stomach. At no time is there any movement of the hips or knees, no hip extension at all, all that bends is the middle back and the shoulders and elbows. This is hard to do and you have to have good muscular control to do it, or you'll end up straightening up at the hips along with the arching of the back. But if you can master doing them this way you will get a big back. This works because the lats actually extend (arch) the middle back in addition to other functions, just like with glute-ham extensions compared to leg curlsyou always get a stronger contraction when you move both the origin and insertion of a muscle, flexing it from both ends so to speak. The bar returns to the floor after each rep. The bent row is actually best done as an explosive movement and the bar is moved fast."

 

[Pablo34]

Courtesy of one Mr. JohnSmith182:

Barbell Rows are best by "starting with the bar on the floor every single rep. Your middle back will have slight bend to it. You pull the bar off the floor quickly with the arms, and by a powerful arch of your middle back. You finish by touching the bar to your upper stomach or middle stomach. At no time is there any movement of the hips or knees, no hip extension at all, all that bends is the middle back and the shoulders and elbows. This is hard to do and you have to have good muscular control to do it, or you'll end up straightening up at the hips along with the arching of the back. But if you can master doing them this way you will get a big back. This works because the lats actually extend (arch) the middle back in addition to other functions, just like with glute-ham extensions compared to leg curlsyou always get a stronger contraction when you move both the origin and insertion of a muscle, flexing it from both ends so to speak. The bar returns to the floor after each rep. The bent row is actually best done as an explosive movement and the bar is moved fast."

Grizz,
It's funny...I was thinking about this old post from JS when I posted my original thread...I wasn't sure where it was hiding. The only problem with that explanation is that I can't visualize the "middle back will have slight bend to it" and "You pull the bar off the floor quickly with the arms, and by a powerful arch of your middle back". I can't fathom how to do this in my head. Does the slight bend mean 70 degrees or is it 90 degrees with an arch to it? It sounds as though in that example, the barbell rows are not done with a 90 degree back bending stance.

 

[Grizzly]

If you assume the position, your spine is still unflexed. The "powerful arch" is a 1/2 inch movement. It's like trying to bend yourself in half backwards, if that makes sense.

The best I can explain it is what I just came up with sitting here. Sit upright in your chair. You're now at a 90 degree angle. Now arch your back hard. That's the motion. Sort of throwing the shoulders back, I guess.

I hope that helps somewhat.

 

[kenneth]

if..

if you drop the bar all the way down to the ground each rep, (yes, i have heard of this).. but unless you have guerilla arms then how do you do that? for m ehtat would require alot of motion from my lower back to return the bar to the ground.

 

[Grizzly]

Because you're supposed to have your torso parallel to the floor. On top of that, with a bend in the knees, the distance is lessened even more.

 

[Pablo34]

Because you're supposed to have your torso parallel to the floor. On top of that, with a bend in the knees, the distance is lessened even more.

Grizz,
Your "sitting in a chair" analogy makes perfect sense! I understand it now.

And in your last post you said "you're supposed to have your torso parallel to the floor"....
That is my whole point here! I'm sure you do rows like this, so do I. But there are too many bros on here claiming 315, 365, 405 pound rows for 10+ REPS that I think it has to be damn near impossible to keep the torso parallel to the ground (aka 90 degrees). I am only doing 225 for 6-8 reps on a good day, and even then I'm struggling to keep my torso parallel to the ground.

 

[kenneth]

grizz..

okay, torso parallel to the floor, so this method disregards the 70 degree theory then correct?

 

[kenneth]

I still say most of the people throwing that weight around are doing the 70 degree method, hehe. unless there are alot of people on this board who have mastered the technique that grizzly is telling us about.

 

[Grizzly]

No, it's probably the Yates row method that they use. I used to use it myself and would row 365 for many reps and I could have done more, but I refuse to use straps. Now that I've gone to this method I usually use around 245 or so. If I was able to be in the gym more, I might be lifting more, but that's what I'm using now. It was a big adjustment, but something tells me that a man who has spent his life scientifically understanding muscle growth and performance has a bit more credence than a dude who would grow by jerking off.

 

[kenneth]

well..

No, it's probably the Yates row method that they use. I used to use it myself and would row 365 for many reps and I could have done more, but I refuse to use straps. Now that I've gone to this method I usually use around 245 or so. If I was able to be in the gym more, I might be lifting more, but that's what I'm using now. It was a big adjustment, but something tells me that a man who has spent his life scientifically understanding muscle growth and performance has a bit more credence than a dude who would grow by jerking off.

I'm doing the yates row right now myself but I've been wanting to hear more about this method for a while now and try it out. Going to cash in yates and try this one for a while, that's one hell of a description you gave us, thanks! how long have you been training only 4 times a month? or maybe you were exaggerating but either way i get the point. are you going to be able to get back in there the way you want to be soon or is it going to be a while? try not to let the tough times and the poundages mess with your head too much

 

[Grizzly]

I've been on the reduced load for about 4 months now. It's not that I don't "get itno the gym", it's just that the gym I get into is for fighting and not for muscles. So, I train MMA Monday thru Saturday morning and then I lift on Saturday and sometimes Sunday.

 

[Bob Smith]

if you drop the bar all the way down to the ground each rep, (yes, i have heard of this).. but unless you have guerilla arms then how do you do that? for m ehtat would require alot of motion from my lower back to return the bar to the ground.

I have switched to doing full JS rows recently and love 'em! JS rules! I probably get more hip extension than I should, but its not the easiest movement to master so I figure its all part of the learning curve. IMO, my back is quickly becoming one of my best parts simply because of the JS row.

As far as technique goes, I think I remember JS saying that in the contracted position, your back should be arched and parallel to the ground (or even a little close to the ground), but not upright.

From what I have seen in numerous gyms, one reason why some people are able to claim high rowing poundages is because they arent doing a bent-over row. Instead, they are doing a combination row/shrug because of their nearly vertical stance.

 

[kenneth]

I have switched to doing full JS rows recently and love 'em! JS rules! I probably get more hip extension than I should, but its not the easiest movement to master so I figure its all part of the learning curve. IMO, my back is quickly becoming one of my best parts simply because of the JS row.

As far as technique goes, I think I remember JS saying that in the contracted position, your back should be arched and parallel to the ground (or even a little close to the ground), but not upright.

From what I have seen in numerous gyms, one reason why some people are able to claim high rowing poundages is because they arent doing a bent-over row. Instead, they are doing a combination row/shrug because of their nearly vertical stance.

my back is unfortunately one of my weaker parts aside from my traps, so i'm always looking for ways to improve it. i know what you're tlaknig about with that row/shrug combination, my training partner 2 years ago always did that, using somewhere between 350 and 400lbs.

 

[Pablo34]

I have switched to doing full JS rows recently and love 'em! JS rules! I probably get more hip extension than I should, but its not the easiest movement to master so I figure its all part of the learning curve. IMO, my back is quickly becoming one of my best parts simply because of the JS row.

As far as technique goes, I think I remember JS saying that in the contracted position, your back should be arched and parallel to the ground (or even a little close to the ground), but not upright.

From what I have seen in numerous gyms, one reason why some people are able to claim high rowing poundages is because they arent doing a bent-over row. Instead, they are doing a combination row/shrug because of their nearly vertical stance.

BS,

Your post puts me at ease. I was right...it is indeed guys cheating on form and not even doing a traditional bent over row who are claiming over 300 pounds in that lift. If you are seeing much back growth by doing it the right way, then that's the BEST way.

BS, are you actually touching the bar on the ground, readjusting, then repulling? Or are you just touching and going? Also, do you use wraps for this exercise?

 

[Grizzly]

Well, I ain't Bob, but when I do them, it's touch and go. Not so much that the recoil from the floor mats figures into the movement, but I don't leave it setting there for any prolonged period.

Also, I don't use wraps. I think wraps cause far more problems than anything. If you want a weak grip and poor form on a lot of exercises, then, by all means, go right ahead and use them.