Planned catabolism

[I6JQdr06]

Ok. So I’m a power athlete rather than an endurance athlete but there isn’t a more appropriate forum (either here or anywhere else), to discuss this subject.

As a boulderer, I have access to very well researched data regarding the ideal BMI for my level of performance. I just had a Dexa scan and if I’m to reach that BMI while maintaining a healthy fat percentage I’ve got to lose 13kg of muscle. The question is how to do this.

I’ve already been dialling in my training plan for the past year or so, so that it’s all focussed on endurance and strength while avoiding that hypertrophy band in the middle. The question is, are there any drug protocols which would help with the process of maintaining the muscles I am training while catabolising the ones I’m not?

A final note: if you’re a bodybuilder please don’t weigh in unless you actually have knowledge of catabolism and how it’s used in sport. I know that many of you simply can’t understand why anyone would want to lose muscle and if you put your opinions here, you’ll derail the thread. There are plenty of other places for you to post your opinions. - thanks.

 

[Scruf]

Hey i6, I am a former bodybuilder and now an endurance athlete, mainly focused on 2-12 hour mountain bike races. When I was working to catabolize muscle to prepare for long races I would only ride my bike and maintain a calorie deficit of 500-1000 calories. I would never train anything other than core and bicycle. I lost around 55 lbs of which 20 ish was muscle. I did lose some power but it came back as I right-sized my calorie intake. This was 12 years ago.

Today, after raising two boys, and coaching every sport they did, I found myself 75 lbs overweight so now I am doing exactly what you are doing. I have too much muscle and am overweight. So here is what i am doing. I am 48 years old and am on HRT with HGH. I have found it extremely effective as I am getting more powerful on the bike and losing weight.

I am taking:
4 iu of HGH a day. 2 iu in the morning and 2iu before bed. (this is more than i am supposed to take on HRT)
Trizepitied
Enclomephine 4 times a week
200 mg Test Cyp a week.
Anastrozole twice a week
T3 in the morning small dose

I take 2iu of HGH in the morning Fasted. Then I do 1-2 hours of biking.
I don't eat until after noon, I eat clean, very low carbs with good fats. Maybe 1000-1200 calories a day.

I have lost 30 lbs, averaging .75 lbs a day. I started at 74 lbs and now I am 245lbs. My legs are getting stronger every week and my FTP (functional threshold power) is going up almost daily.

The Trizepitied is amazing stuff for hunger pangs. I rarely get super hungry.

Couple notes: I wasn't in very good shape when I started, I have a lot of residual muscle and size from bodybuilding, and even when I was in top racing form, I was a lot bigger than the other athletes. I do train in the gym, upper body only, as my legs get plenty of work bicycling.

P.S I have been on this forum for 20 years, I have no clue why it says a new member.

 

[Type-IIx]

This is the most ridiculous question I think I've ever seen in this context. You are asking on a bodybuilding forum, a question that you don't think bodybuilders are equipped to be able to answer, how to do something totally antithetical to bodybuilding (intentionally catabolising muscle).

Anyway, NO, there is no drug solution to this. Just eat in an energy deficit and adhere to the standard medical guidelines for protein intakes or slightly below, and continue your training to retain the working muscles involved in bouldering.

Then, you can actually stop wasting your time on anabolic agents because they're totally useless, if not actually a hindrance, in your sport*. You'd be better off using corticosteroids than anything we discuss here if you insist on doping.

*: I state this even knowing that the ability to perform a single arm pull-up with each arm gripping only by a finger is a very important ability in bouldering... And yet, the athletes that can do these are not muscular; they are rail thin, and just developed the specific strength quality by time and effort and not getting hyooge.

 

[Scruf]

This is the most ridiculous question I think I've ever seen in this context. You are asking on a bodybuilding forum, a question that you don't think bodybuilders are equipped to be able to answer, how to do something totally antithetical to bodybuilding (intentionally catabolising muscle).

Anyway, NO, there is no drug solution to this. Just eat in an energy deficit and adhere to the standard medical guidelines for protein intakes or slightly below, and continue your training to retain the working muscles involved in bouldering.

Then, you can actually stop wasting your time on anabolic agents because they're totally useless, if not actually a hindrance, in your sport*. You'd be better off using corticosteroids than anything we discuss here if you insist on doping.

*: I state this even knowing that the ability to perform a single arm pull-up with each arm gripping only by a finger is a very important ability in bouldering... And yet, the athletes that can do these are not muscular; they are rail thin, and just developed the specific strength quality by time and effort and not getting hyooge.

He did ask the question under Endurance Forum...

 

[Type-IIx]

He did ask the question under Endurance Forum...

Fair point, not only did I not notice, I didn't even think we had an endurance forum. Sorry for the initial comment/tone then, @I6JQdr06 and hopefully you find my points useful/applicable.

 

[I6JQdr06]

You are asking on a bodybuilding forum, a question that you don't think bodybuilders are equipped to be able to answer

Nope. I’m asking on an endurance forum

 

[I6JQdr06]

Hey i6, I am a former bodybuilder and now an endurance athlete, mainly focused on 2-12 hour mountain bike races. When I was working to catabolize muscle to prepare for long races I would only ride my bike and maintain a calorie deficit of 500-1000 calories. I would never train anything other than core and bicycle. I lost around 55 lbs of which 20 ish was muscle. I did lose some power but it came back as I right-sized my calorie intake. This was 12 years ago.

Today, after raising two boys, and coaching every sport they did, I found myself 75 lbs overweight so now I am doing exactly what you are doing. I have too much muscle and am overweight. So here is what i am doing. I am 48 years old and am on HRT with HGH. I have found it extremely effective as I am getting more powerful on the bike and losing weight.

I am taking:
4 iu of HGH a day. 2 iu in the morning and 2iu before bed. (this is more than i am supposed to take on HRT)
Trizepitied
Enclomephine 4 times a week
200 mg Test Cyp a week.
Anastrozole twice a week
T3 in the morning small dose

I take 2iu of HGH in the morning Fasted. Then I do 1-2 hours of biking.
I don't eat until after noon, I eat clean, very low carbs with good fats. Maybe 1000-1200 calories a day.

I have lost 30 lbs, averaging .75 lbs a day. I started at 74 lbs and now I am 245lbs. My legs are getting stronger every week and my FTP (functional threshold power) is going up almost daily.

The Trizepitied is amazing stuff for hunger pangs. I rarely get super hungry.

Couple notes: I wasn't in very good shape when I started, I have a lot of residual muscle and size from bodybuilding, and even when I was in top racing form, I was a lot bigger than the other athletes. I do train in the gym, upper body only, as my legs get plenty of work bicycling.

P.S I have been on this forum for 20 years, I have no clue why it says a new member.

Thanks for the info dude. Are you losing muscle, or fat? I don’t have any fat to lose.

 

[Scruf]

Thanks for the info dude. Are you losing muscle, or fat? I don’t have any fat to lose.

Both. So the body uses fuel for energy. It can get the fuel from food, stored fat or muscle. I found that as i biked into catabolism my legs stayed strong and other parts of my body got smaller and weaker.

 

[I6JQdr06]

Both. So the body uses fuel for energy. It can get the fuel from food, stored fat or muscle. I found that as i biked into catabolism my legs stayed strong and other parts of my body got smaller and weaker.

I find it interesting that it’s easy for you to lose muscle even though you’re (presumably) at supra-physiological levels of testosterone. I don’t at all and my TRT dose is lower than yours.

Seems when I go into a calorie deficit once I get down to single digit levels of body fat, rather than losing kilos via catabolism, my metabolism just slows and I crave carbs.

I’ve thought about using drugs to aid the process: Triamcinolone or something similar, but there’s no public info whatsoever about how athletes use it for this purpose.

 

[micro2000]

Hey i6, I am a former bodybuilder and now an endurance athlete, mainly focused on 2-12 hour mountain bike races. When I was working to catabolize muscle to prepare for long races I would only ride my bike and maintain a calorie deficit of 500-1000 calories. I would never train anything other than core and bicycle. I lost around 55 lbs of which 20 ish was muscle. I did lose some power but it came back as I right-sized my calorie intake. This was 12 years ago.

Today, after raising two boys, and coaching every sport they did, I found myself 75 lbs overweight so now I am doing exactly what you are doing. I have too much muscle and am overweight. So here is what i am doing. I am 48 years old and am on HRT with HGH. I have found it extremely effective as I am getting more powerful on the bike and losing weight.

I am taking:
4 iu of HGH a day. 2 iu in the morning and 2iu before bed. (this is more than i am supposed to take on HRT)
Trizepitied
Enclomephine 4 times a week
200 mg Test Cyp a week.
Anastrozole twice a week
T3 in the morning small dose

I take 2iu of HGH in the morning Fasted. Then I do 1-2 hours of biking.
I don't eat until after noon, I eat clean, very low carbs with good fats. Maybe 1000-1200 calories a day.

I have lost 30 lbs, averaging .75 lbs a day. I started at 74 lbs and now I am 245lbs. My legs are getting stronger every week and my FTP (functional threshold power) is going up almost daily.

The Trizepitied is amazing stuff for hunger pangs. I rarely get super hungry.

Couple notes: I wasn't in very good shape when I started, I have a lot of residual muscle and size from bodybuilding, and even when I was in top racing form, I was a lot bigger than the other athletes. I do train in the gym, upper body only, as my legs get plenty of work bicycling.

P.S I have been on this forum for 20 years, I have no clue why it says a new member.

Any particular reason for the anti estrogen drugs on HRT?

 

[Scruf]

Any particular reason for the anti estrogen drugs on HRT

My dr. prescribed it as part of the whole protocol. I think it is done out of caution.

 

[UncleBuns]

Check this article out:
Maximizing Power to Weight Ratio

It's one of the more interesting articles I've read on reducing unwanted lean body mass. They test their method on bikers but I assume you could do the same thing and flip the high intensity work to specific upper body exercises. Maybe even just do finger, forearm, and pull up/ row type work to maintain upper body and reduce lower body maximally

The only thing not in the article is the use of anabolics. I would assume that if you were to use their method you would want to reduce your anabolic use to only testosterone and down to the bare minimum trt that you can handle. The less the better I would think. The lowest mg's so you don't feel terrible.

 

[UncleBuns]

Did you check out that link? I've been curious for a long time about that protocol. What do you think about it?

 

[I6JQdr06]

I haven’t yet but I really want to. It’s really hard to read on my phone though. I was planning on getting it printed and then reading it.

 

[UncleBuns]

I haven’t yet but I really want to. It’s really hard to read on my phone though. I was planning on getting it printed and then reading it.

Yea, the format is weird. I found that article posted in a thread years ago. If you try their method or another catabolism method please post a log or your experience/results! Planned catabolism sounds mentally rugged, but if your motivation is high I'm confident it can be done successfully. If I tried the protocol in that article I think I would have to take time off work because I would probably be a nightmare asshole while implementing it.