bananafeet
Member
Thanks for the write up.
My nipples started aching when I read 3mg of estrodial per week. Holy moly that's a lot.
You don't get bloating or any sides at that dose? Or does the progesterone sort of reduce the sides?
MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Progesterone in oil
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My nipples started aching when I read 3mg of estrodial per week. Holy moly that's a lot.
You don't get bloating or any sides at that dose? Or does the progesterone sort of reduce the sides?
IndividualMan
Member
thats womens HRT doses, no?
bananafeet
Member
Yeah but it's a lot even for a woman. Like 0.5mg has a massive effect.. obviously depends on the endogenous production
IndividualMan
Member
really? I thought .5 is about right/ont he higher end for men, with massive positive implications for heart and brain health, but women do have crazy high endogenous E2 production, so idk how much is high for them.
I would guess 4-8x my high end could be about right for them, but sadly I am a labrat, no endocrinologist by trade.
bananafeet
Member
Yeah like I said it depends on the endogenous level...
Depends if the stuff you've got is dosed correctly and how quickly it absorbs. Sometimes during perimenopause women over produce estrodial so if you administer small amount it can cause supra physiological levels.
It's pretty amazing how estrodial in women with lowish levels basically plumps them up. Everything gets rehydrated and even the skin instantly gets a soft glow.
Even vaginal estrogens which are converted into estrodial by the tissues have an amazing and instant effect.
It's crazy stuff. The human body is pretty amazing.
I can see how it would have a massive effect on the endothelium and heart.
Edit: sorry for derailing the thread.
IndividualMan
Member
I always forget people use cyp instead of undecylenate for HRT, that makes a lot of sense now.
yes, its crazy for skin health as well
It's every day, either 14 days on, 14 off or constantly depending on if they still want periods or not. The injectable stuff was originally designed for IVF, to make sure that the implantation "takes" so its not run indefinitely. Most ladies using it for HRT are doing so because they don't tolerate Progesterone orally or as a suppository for whatever reason.
Reading through the forums, ladies like the EO stuff because its super thin, and halves the volume required.
Superchicken
Member
Lol, nope. I was ok at first at my prescribed dose, but started having hot flashes creep back in. I did a slow titration until symptoms resolved.
Dosing is individual, especially when you take SHBG into account. I read a post from a woman today who is on 1.8 a week with serum e2 of mid 200s, another at 2.45 put her over 350. My dose of 3 is gets me about 225. I use FSH as a guide, keeping it right around 5. I also track anti mullerian hormone and needing a higher dose is when AMH halved.
No bloating or anything. From the reading I’ve done from other women, it’s typically the progesterone that causes bloating and is often not well tolerated until estrogen levels are up. Too much progesterone is what makes my boobs swollen and my skin breakout.
As far as I’m aware, yes. 1-2 is standard starting and women in full menopause are at 3-5. There aren’t many clinicians who prescribe injections, even with estradiol cyp and val drug inserts listing menopause as an indication for use. It’s not in any international prescribing guidelines and probably won’t be due to it not being profitable enough.
I understand why this logically makes sense, but it’s not really the case. Ideally estradiol is replaced enough to suppress endogenous production just enough to eliminate those spikes that cause symptoms. The issue becomes that clinical guidelines state to not test serum, so women typically end up underdosed and those spikes still happen with exogenous amounts shooting it too high.
Progesterone like this isn’t part of any hrt guideline. If oral isn’t tolerated or doesn’t control bleeding, then international guidelines state that an IUD or synthetic progestin is the next step. Even using it as a suppository is technically off label and drs seem to get obnoxiously aggressive about using it for hrt, stating there’s no studies to support it. They don’t use their brain and reference the successful uses in fertility treatments. It’s illogical especially considering that studies focused on medroxyprogesterone acetate arms were associated with higher incidence of negative outcomes. The drs never even went to bioidentical progesterone once the link was discovered, just hopped to SERMS. This leads to women either quitting hrt entirely or having unnecessary biopsies and hysterectomies.
As it stands, guidelines state that the minimum progesterone exposure while in peri is 200mg for 12-14 days, and 100mg daily for postmenopausal or women who want to stop cycles. I personally never had my cycle impacted by daily use, even when going up to 300mg. (LCMS for oral progesterone is the most accurate, btw. It runs concordant for me.) It showed that levels should be adequate to prevent mid cycle bleeding, but obviously not accurate for tissue saturation. I choose inj because I want sex without extra stuff in my vag, and don’t want to boof anything.
I don’t think they are trying. Drs could prescribe oral progesterone postpartum, but it’s not on their radar. Women weren’t even required to be included in clinical trials until the 90s. Dr Goldstein is a prominent ob/gyn and sits on the Int’l Meno board, who says he’s been part of conversations and seen promising data on women’s health, where it didn’t go to trial because decision makers said it wasn’t profitable. Shit, my gov’t only recanted its initial decision to cut women’s funding for the WHI, only after huge backlash.
We still get thrown birth control starting in teen years. I’ve had debilitating migraines since puberty, that were largely alleviated once starting hrt. Drs repeatedly said there wasn’t a link to hormones because mine existed outside of the luteal phase. Men have multiple dick pill options and women got Vyleesi, (pt 141), and Addyi. Addyi was shown to positively increase sexual experience by 1 per month. The side effects suck, and it has to be taken for 4-8 weeks before it’s fully effective if it works at all. I believe only 4 countries even have a proper testosterone product specifically for women. It’s all piss poor.
We aren’t valued beyond reproductive years. You would think scientists would realize that when women’s health declines, so do men’s. There’s a sharp decline in men’s health when their partner dies. Humans overall will benefit if women’s health is prioritized.
bananafeet
Member
I agree somewhat. Especially the non reproductive years part.
However this is just my personal experience but women are on the average completely disinterested in investing in their sexual health. They will happily buy $100 skin creams but won't use a $7 vaginal estrogen.
They think about menopause and aging and just bury their heads in the sand.
Men are more likely to spend money on their sexual health, and spend excessively. They are much more open to discussing their problems and taking action.
You will find a woman pushing her husband to get a CPAP machine, or take some medications or fix his sleep before she takes any similar actions on her own health.
Anyway it's not my issue. I will just assist the women in my life if they are open to it.
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