Question about test crystalizing in your muscle after a shot...

[just1MoreTime55]

I'm new. But I've heard the test can crash and you have to get warm rag and massage it really good to help it dissolve into the body. Is this correct? And is this harmful? I don't think I've ever got that just inquiring about it is al. I read about it a little on meso.

 

[shartking]

Short of a biopsy, you'll never be certain. I'm a little skeptical that it happens, but it would seem to be more likely with higher concentrations like E500

 

[Phreezer]

Like 0.1% chance of this happening.

When raws were easily obtainable by all and when home brewers were everywhere a small handful of guys (and I mean a very small handful) would occasionally get some gear that wouldnt hold and would crash. They would try to reconstitute those crashed vials and maybe they'd hold afterwards and maybe they wouldn't.

They'd inject it anyway and hope for the best. Did some of those leave crystals in their muscle bellies??? IDK, maybe? They'd say it did and run all over the boards. In all likelyhood they probably got an abcess from an unsanitary needle or failing to pre-sterilize their injection site and just got unlucky and got an abcess that had to be opened and drained or cut out.

Honestly I think your chances of being runover and killed by horses pulling a run away Amish buggy are higher then having gear crash out and crystalize inside you after injection.

If it's holding when you inject it you're fine. You're body metabolizes that shit so fast it won't have an opportunity to crash.

 

[just1MoreTime55]

Like 0.1% chance of this happening.

When raws were easily obtainable by all and when home brewers were everywhere a small handful of guys (and I mean a very small handful) would occasionally get some gear that wouldnt hold and would crash. They would try to reconstitute those crashed vials and maybe they'd hold afterwards and maybe they wouldn't.

They'd inject it anyway and hope for the best. Did some of those leave crystals in their muscle bellies??? IDK, maybe? They'd say it did and run all over the boards. In all likelyhood they probably got an abcess from an unsanitary needle or failing to pre-sterilize their injection site and just got unlucky and got an abcess that had to be opened and drained or cut out.

Honestly I think your chances of being runover and killed by horses pulling a run away Amish buggy are higher then having gear crash out and crystalize inside you after injection.

If it's holding when you inject it you're fine. You're body metabolizes that shit so fast it won't have an opportunity to crash.

Like 0.1% chance of this happening.

When raws were easily obtainable by all and when home brewers were everywhere a small handful of guys (and I mean a very small handful) would occasionally get some gear that wouldnt hold and would crash. They would try to reconstitute those crashed vials and maybe they'd hold afterwards and maybe they wouldn't.

They'd inject it anyway and hope for the best. Did some of those leave crystals in their muscle bellies??? IDK, maybe? They'd say it did and run all over the boards. In all likelyhood they probably got an abcess from an unsanitary needle or failing to pre-sterilize their injection site and just got unlucky and got an abcess that had to be opened and drained or cut out.

Honestly I think your chances of being runover and killed by horses pulling a run away Amish buggy are higher then having gear crash out and crystalize inside you after injection.

If it's holding when you inject it you're fine. You're body metabolizes that shit so fast it won't have an opportunity to crash.

What about this. How long can a bottle of test cyp last. Like what's the longest you can let it set on a shelf and it still be safe? All clear vials. Have you heard of people giving blood twice a year if their red blood cells are up and there told their blood is thick? Would doing this help blood flow better the clinic said I should do that and take an aspirin a day. Thank you for the help so you know I appreciate everyone's help

 

[GuerillaPete]

What about this. How long can a bottle of test cyp last. Like what's the longest you can let it set on a shelf and it still be safe? All clear vials. Have you heard of people giving blood twice a year if their red blood cells are up and there told their blood is thick? Would doing this help blood flow better the clinic said I should do that and take an aspirin a day. Thank you for the help so you know I appreciate everyone's help

Whats your blood pressure like?
Do you keep track?
I take a blood pressure medicine called telmisartan its good for keeping blood thinner and also has a lot of other benefits for guys on testosterone you should look into it.
The testosteron is good until the oil goes rancid or changes color 5 years minimum but could easily last longer.

 

[notanothersnake]

What about this. How long can a bottle of test cyp last. Like what's the longest you can let it set on a shelf and it still be safe? All clear vials. Have you heard of people giving blood twice a year if their red blood cells are up and there told their blood is thick? Would doing this help blood flow better the clinic said I should do that and take an aspirin a day. Thank you for the help so you know I appreciate everyone's help

Half vials I have certainly seen evaporate and leave a much thicker oil. I imagine that's what happened. Very thick. Was it bad? Idk, but it was primo so I used every drop of it. (Diluted of course)

 

[Toaster]

Like 0.1% chance of this happening.

When raws were easily obtainable by all and when home brewers were everywhere a small handful of guys (and I mean a very small handful) would occasionally get some gear that wouldnt hold and would crash. They would try to reconstitute those crashed vials and maybe they'd hold afterwards and maybe they wouldn't.

They'd inject it anyway and hope for the best. Did some of those leave crystals in their muscle bellies??? IDK, maybe? They'd say it did and run all over the boards. In all likelyhood they probably got an abcess from an unsanitary needle or failing to pre-sterilize their injection site and just got unlucky and got an abcess that had to be opened and drained or cut out.

Honestly I think your chances of being runover and killed by horses pulling a run away Amish buggy are higher then having gear crash out and crystalize inside you after injection.

If it's holding when you inject it you're fine. You're body metabolizes that shit so fast it won't have an opportunity to crash.

Post injection precipitation is a thing. Are there any studies on it occuring with anabolic steroids? No, but then again why would anyone study that?

You may want to adjust your odds. If it occurs with other drugs I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility.

 

[Deleted member 134759]

I'm new. But I've heard the test can crash and you have to get warm rag and massage it really good to help it dissolve into the body. Is this correct? And is this harmful? I don't think I've ever got that just inquiring about it is al. I read about it a little on meso.

IM injections are rapidly absorbed by the muscles. They are rich in capillaries that carry the medication quickly.

The only thing determining absorption is the ester. If testosterone for instance crashes in the muscle because it’s a long ester, then only long esters would cause pip. Which is actually the opposite of what occurs. There’s no scientific evidence showing a medication can crash after IM injection, nor is there any evidence that it causes pip.

A lot of people believe this for whatever reason though.

 

[Toaster]

IM injections are rapidly absorbed by the muscles. They are rich in capillaries that carry the medication quickly.

The only thing determining absorption is the ester. If testosterone for instance crashes in the muscle because it’s a long ester, then only long esters would cause pip. Which is actually the opposite of what occurs. There’s no scientific evidence showing a medication can crash after IM injection, nor is there any evidence that it causes pip.

A lot of people believe this for whatever reason though.

It's not an IM injection, but crystallization can occur after an injection.

I also don't know if it's accurate to say anabolic steroids are rapidly absorbed by the muscles. They're designed to create an sustained release depot.

The Lipid Bilayer Provides a Site for Cortisone Crystallization at High Cortisone Concentrations

Cortisone is an injected anti-inflammatory drug that can cause painful side effects known as “steroid flares” which are caused by cortisone crystallizing at the injection site. We used molecular dynamics simulations and X-ray diffraction ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In addition, corticosteroid injections can cause so-called “steroid flares”, which are characterized by pain at the site of injection and typically occur within 1–2 days of injection19,20. Insoluble, μm sized cortisone crystals forming on the synovial membrane cause macrophages to collect at the cite of crystallization. The immune response, known as a flare, leads to the release of synovial fluid, swelling, and pain at the site of injection21,22,23

 

[just1MoreTime55]

IM injections are rapidly absorbed by the muscles. They are rich in capillaries that carry the medication quickly.

The only thing determining absorption is the ester. If testosterone for instance crashes in the muscle because it’s a long ester, then only long esters would cause pip. Which is actually the opposite of what occurs. There’s no scientific evidence showing a medication can crash after IM injection, nor is there any evidence that it causes pip.

A lot of people believe this for whatever reason though.

Thank you for your kind response. I'm trying to learn here so I can be safe.

 

[just1MoreTime55]

IM injections are rapidly absorbed by the muscles. They are rich in capillaries that carry the medication quickly.

The only thing determining absorption is the ester. If testosterone for instance crashes in the muscle because it’s a long ester, then only long esters would cause pip. Which is actually the opposite of what occurs. There’s no scientific evidence showing a medication can crash after IM injection, nor is there any evidence that it causes pip.

A lot of people believe this for whatever reason though.

Thank you for your kind response. I'm trying to learn here so I can be safe.

Half vials I have certainly seen evaporate and leave a much thicker oil. I imagine that's what happened. Very thick. Was it bad? Idk, but it was primo so I used every drop of it. (Diluted of course)

I'm sorry I asked two different questions in one.. let me try again.... How long is test cyp good for if I got a stash put up? That's question 1..... Second question.. the trt clinic I see saw my blood work and said that my red blood cells are up.( Said that means my blood is thick) and I should go give blood twice a year.. does anyone give blood cause of this? And does it help? Thank you for any answers... Btw. I am NOT a troll I'm just trying to learn. A couple on here tried to say I'm a troll. And I don't play that crap.

 

[just1MoreTime55]

Whats your blood pressure like?
Do you keep track?
I take a blood pressure medicine called telmisartan its good for keeping blood thinner and also has a lot of other benefits for guys on testosterone you should look into it.
The testosteron is good until the oil goes rancid or changes color 5 years minimum but could easily last longer.

In the past my blood pressure has been slightly elevated 132 over 80 since I quit smoking it's lower. I will look into telmisartan. Do I get that from my regular doctor. Or trt clinic. And ok on no more than 5 years for the most part

 

[Deleted member 134759]

It's not an IM injection, but crystallization can occur after an injection.

I also don't know if it's accurate to say anabolic steroids are rapidly absorbed by the muscles. They're designed to create an sustained release depot.

The Lipid Bilayer Provides a Site for Cortisone Crystallization at High Cortisone Concentrations

Cortisone is an injected anti-inflammatory drug that can cause painful side effects known as “steroid flares” which are caused by cortisone crystallizing at the injection site. We used molecular dynamics simulations and X-ray diffraction ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In addition, corticosteroid injections can cause so-called “steroid flares”, which are characterized by pain at the site of injection and typically occur within 1–2 days of injection19,20. Insoluble, μm sized cortisone crystals forming on the synovial membrane cause macrophages to collect at the cite of crystallization. The immune response, known as a flare, leads to the release of synovial fluid, swelling, and pain at the site of injection21,22,23

Corticosteroids are not anabolic steroids, in fact corticosteroids cause muscle atrophy. I hardly think that’s a fair comparison.

Also they are not “designed” that way. The ester determines the sustained release and that has nothing to do with absorption.

“Intramuscular injection (IM) is installing medications into the depth of specifically selected muscles. The bulky muscles have good vascularity, and therefore the injected drug quickly reaches the systemic circulation and thereafter into the specific region of action, bypassing the first-pass metabolism”

Intramuscular Injection - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Intramuscular injection (IM) is installing medications into the depth of specifically selected muscles.[1] The bulky muscles have good vascularity, and therefore the injected drug quickly reaches the systemic circulation and thereafter into the specific region of action, bypassing the first-pass...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There is no scientific evidence that IM use of anabolic steroids cause the hormone to crash after IM injection. Comparing corticosteroids to hormones is like comparing apples to grapes

 

[Toaster]

Corticosteroids are not anabolic steroids, in fact corticosteroids cause muscle atrophy. I hardly think that’s a fair comparison.

Also they are not “designed” that way. The ester determines the sustained release and that has nothing to do with absorption.

“Intramuscular injection (IM) is installing medications into the depth of specifically selected muscles. The bulky muscles have good vascularity, and therefore the injected drug quickly reaches the systemic circulation and thereafter into the specific region of action, bypassing the first-pass metabolism”

Intramuscular Injection - StatPearls - NCBI Bookshelf

Intramuscular injection (IM) is installing medications into the depth of specifically selected muscles.[1] The bulky muscles have good vascularity, and therefore the injected drug quickly reaches the systemic circulation and thereafter into the specific region of action, bypassing the first-pass...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

There is no scientific evidence that IM use of anabolic steroids cause the hormone to crash after IM injection. Comparing corticosteroids to hormones is like comparing apples to grapes

Oil-based injectable solutions and injectable drug suspensions. Conventional long-acting injections consist either of lipophilic drugs in aqueous solvents as suspensions or of lipophilic drugs dissolved in vegetable oils. The administration need for these long-acting formulations only takes place every few weeks or so. In the suspension formulations, the rate-limiting step of drug absorption is the dissolution of drug particles in the formulation or in the tissue fluid surrounding the drug formulation. Poorly water-soluble salt formations can be used to control the dissolution rate of drug particles to prolong the absorption, and olanzapine pamoate is an example of a poorly water-soluble salt form of olanzapine. Certain drugs for long-acting formulations are synthesized by esterification of the parent drug to a long-chain fatty acid. Based on its extremely low water solubility, a fatty acid ester of a drug dissolves slowly at the injection site after IM injection and is hydrolyzed to the parent drug. Once the ester is hydrolyzed intramuscularly, the parent drug becomes available in the systemic circulation. The release rate of paliperidone palmitate from long-acting injectable suspension is governed by this mechanism. In many formulations, a fatty acid ester of a drug is used to prepare an oil-based parenteral solution, and the drug-release rate from solution is controlled by the drug partitioning between the oil vehicle and the tissue fluid and by the drug bioconversion rate from drug esters to the parent drug. However, several other factors such as injection site, injection volume, the extent of spreading of the depot at the injection site, and the absorption and distribution of the oil vehicle per se might affect the overall pharmacokinetic profile of the drug. Decanoic acid esters of antipsychotic drugs are widely used for these oil-based IM injections.

Sustained-Release Injectable Drug Delivery

A review on the current status of long-acting injectables, including commercially marketed products. This article is part of a special Drug Delivery issue.

www.pharmtech.com

Maybe you can clarify that for me. Seems to me they are designed that way.

Also it's pretty obvious there is no scientific evidence of IM anabolic steroids precipitating after injection. Who would even study that?

Corticosteroids are not anabolic steroids, but there is evidence of drugs crystallization post injection. Therefore it seems pretty logical to make the assumption that it's a least a possibility.

I'm don't make any steroids myself, but it's my understanding that the solvents are what allow the drugs to be dissolved at a certain concentration. It would be pretty easy to assume the first thing to be absorbed from an IM anabolic steroid injection is the solvent. Leaving you with an oil depot and containing a steroid which can not be held at that concentration.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Rido]

It's not an IM injection, but crystallization can occur after an injection.

I also don't know if it's accurate to say anabolic steroids are rapidly absorbed by the muscles. They're designed to create an sustained release depot.

The Lipid Bilayer Provides a Site for Cortisone Crystallization at High Cortisone Concentrations

Cortisone is an injected anti-inflammatory drug that can cause painful side effects known as “steroid flares” which are caused by cortisone crystallizing at the injection site. We used molecular dynamics simulations and X-ray diffraction ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In addition, corticosteroid injections can cause so-called “steroid flares”, which are characterized by pain at the site of injection and typically occur within 1–2 days of injection19,20. Insoluble, μm sized cortisone crystals forming on the synovial membrane cause macrophages to collect at the cite of crystallization. The immune response, known as a flare, leads to the release of synovial fluid, swelling, and pain at the site of injection21,22,23

That's a long ramble of nonsense that has nothing to do with this situation.

 

[Toaster]

That's a long ramble of nonsense that has nothing to do with this situation.

Drugs can crystalize post injection.

You're not going to find scientists doing studies on anabolic steroid PIP. It has no value to the medical community.

Is PIP caused by a steroid crashing post injection? I have no idea, but there is evidence out there to suggest it's not impossible.

Sometimes you have to make an educated guess and you can't just say "show me a citation" as if everything ever has been studied.

 

[Deleted member 134759]

Oil-based injectable solutions and injectable drug suspensions. Conventional long-acting injections consist either of lipophilic drugs in aqueous solvents as suspensions or of lipophilic drugs dissolved in vegetable oils. The administration need for these long-acting formulations only takes place every few weeks or so. In the suspension formulations, the rate-limiting step of drug absorption is the dissolution of drug particles in the formulation or in the tissue fluid surrounding the drug formulation. Poorly water-soluble salt formations can be used to control the dissolution rate of drug particles to prolong the absorption, and olanzapine pamoate is an example of a poorly water-soluble salt form of olanzapine. Certain drugs for long-acting formulations are synthesized by esterification of the parent drug to a long-chain fatty acid. Based on its extremely low water solubility, a fatty acid ester of a drug dissolves slowly at the injection site after IM injection and is hydrolyzed to the parent drug. Once the ester is hydrolyzed intramuscularly, the parent drug becomes available in the systemic circulation. The release rate of paliperidone palmitate from long-acting injectable suspension is governed by this mechanism. In many formulations, a fatty acid ester of a drug is used to prepare an oil-based parenteral solution, and the drug-release rate from solution is controlled by the drug partitioning between the oil vehicle and the tissue fluid and by the drug bioconversion rate from drug esters to the parent drug. However, several other factors such as injection site, injection volume, the extent of spreading of the depot at the injection site, and the absorption and distribution of the oil vehicle per se might affect the overall pharmacokinetic profile of the drug. Decanoic acid esters of antipsychotic drugs are widely used for these oil-based IM injections.

Sustained-Release Injectable Drug Delivery

A review on the current status of long-acting injectables, including commercially marketed products. This article is part of a special Drug Delivery issue.

www.pharmtech.com

Maybe you can clarify that for me. Seems to me they are designed that way.

Also it's pretty obvious there is no scientific evidence of IM anabolic steroids precipitating after injection. Who would even study that?

Corticosteroids are not anabolic steroids, but there is evidence of drugs crystallization post injection. Therefore it seems pretty logical to make the assumption that it's a least a possibility.

I'm don't make any steroids myself, but it's my understanding that the solvents are what allow the drugs to be dissolved at a certain concentration. It would be pretty easy to assume the first thing to be absorbed from an IM anabolic steroid injection is the solvent. Leaving you with an oil depot and containing a steroid which can not be held at that concentration.

Just my thoughts.

You keep quoting studies that have literally nothing to do with anabolic steroids or hormones. Your argument has no basis because you are comparing two different classes of medications. If Tylenol cures a headache then Xanax should cure one too-This is your argument.

It seems you’ve made your mind up yourself in your eco chamber of corticosteroids studies so believe what you wish. But for the third time, there is zero evidence of your claims.

 

[Toaster]

You keep quoting studies that have literally nothing to do with anabolic steroids or hormones. Your argument has no basis because you are comparing two different classes of medications. If Tylenol cures a headache then Xanax should cure one too-This is your argument.

It seems you’ve made your mind up yourself in your eco chamber of corticosteroids studies so believe what you wish. But for the third time, there is zero evidence of your claims.

How are steroids not an oil based solution? You claim IM injections are absorbed quickly when they are not in the case of oil based solutions. Which is what steroids are...

Once again, there will never be "evidence" of anabolic steroid PIP. No one would fund a study for that.

You're trying to dismiss common sense and logic by screaming "show me a study bro" when it will never exist. You're doing this to avoid actually having a discussion on what could be possible.

For the second time I have no idea of PIP is caused by steroids crashing in the muscle. All I'm saying is based on the evidence of other drugs that have ACTUALLY been studied and the fact that steroids do not instantly get absorbed into the muscle it doesn't seem impossible.

 

[Phreezer]

This is arguing hypothesis just for the sake of arguing. You're argument is "in theory" this can happen. Yes, I suppose in theory it "can" happen.

All You're doing is searching the web for studies that "might" support your argument so you can be "right" on a steroid message board.

You're likely not qualified to make this argument. Neither am I. Neither of us likely work in a bio chemical field and neither of us likely work in the medical research field that would qualify us to accurately interpret small studies written by experts for their peers in their similar fields to review and interpret.

What we're really doing here is just muddying the water for some guy who at the end of the day is just scared and having anxiety about doing his first injection. You're feeding that fear by trying to prove to him that this is a legitimate fear. It isn't, no matter how much you wanna argue.

I've done this dance a thousand times and if you want to be right or need to be right online then bully for you. I wont argue it with you.

To the OP their are all kinds of risks to doing this. There are risks to buying illegal drugs online and having them shipped to your home. There are risks that those drugs can be underdosed, overdosed or be made up of something else entirely different than what you ordered. There are risks that can have long term effects on your body by abusing medications long term that you don't need.

Now, all that being said.. I have been at this for over 25 years. I do not know of, or have ever heard of test definitivly crystalizing inside of a muscle belly post injection. And neither does the devil's advocate arguing it can happen.. if he did, he would have referenced it. He can't even find a documented instance of it actually happening. If he could of he would of posted it. Instead he's running circles around it with unrelated studies.

At the end of the day you need to decide if the risks are worth it to you. If they're not, don't do it. Lots of risks with this.

Best of luck!

-P

 

[Toaster]

This is arguing hypothesis just for the sake of arguing. You're argument is "in theory" this can happen. Yes, I suppose in theory it "can" happen.

All You're doing is searching the web for studies that "might" support your argument so you can be "right" on a steroid message board.

You're likely not qualified to make this argument. Neither am I. Neither of us likely work in a bio chemical field and neither of us likely work in the medical research field that would qualify us to accurately interpret small studies written by experts for their peers in their similar fields to review and interpret.

What we're really doing here is just muddying the water for some guy who at the end of the day is just scared and having anxiety about doing his first injection. You're feeding that fear by trying to prove to him that this is a legitimate fear. It isn't, no matter how much you wanna argue.

I've done this dance a thousand times and if you want to be right or need to be right online then bully for you. I wont argue it with you.

To the OP their are all kinds of risks to doing this. There are risks to buying illegal drugs online and having them shipped to your home. There are risks that those drugs can be underdosed, overdosed or be made up of something else entirely different than what you ordered. There are risks that can have long term effects on your body by abusing medications long term that you don't need.

Now, all that being said.. I have been at this for over 25 years. I do not know of, or have ever heard of test definitivly crystalizing inside of a muscle belly post injection. And neither does the devil's advocate arguing it can happen.. if he did, he would have referenced it. He can't even find a documented instance of it actually happening. If he could of he would of posted it. Instead he's running circles around it with unrelated studies.

At the end of the day you need to decide if the risks are worth it to you. If they're not, don't do it. Lots of risks with this.

Best of luck!

-P

Every steroid board is full of people discussing hypotheses using loosely associated studies.

Why? Because no one studies majority of the topics discussed in bodybuilding circles.

The problem these days is people like to dig in and just want to argue. So the end result is usually two people calling each other stupid without ever thinking critically about the topic.

Whether the pip is caused by crystallization or not will likely remain nothing more than a hypothesis. That doesn't mean you can instantly rule it out or say it's the cause.

It's mind blowing that you guys keep claiming something can't happen because it's not directly reported in a study. The whole "evidence based" bodybuilding and training world is based on making assumptions from studies that are somewhat associated with the topic

Also is if the guy is "scared" because PIP could or could not be caused by crystallization doing steroids is probably not going to go well for him mentally.