Question for JS.

[CyniQ]

I posted this on another board you frequent, but as of yet have received no satisfactory responses.

I've recently noticed that at the bottom of a deep squat, I allow my pelvis to roll backwards, bringing my glutes closer to my calves, and (I would assume), weakening the position of my lower back. It doesn't cause me any pain. But what does it mean exactly? Is it just the limit of my flexibility? Weak spinal erectors? Lack of focus? I try to keep my back engaged throughout. I do just fine until I hit the full bottom of my ROM.

I do have a 36" inseam. But I don't have enough knowledge or experience to tell whether or not this is part of the problem. Or if I even, in fact, have a problem. It just seems odd. Mainly because I think that it must put my lower back in a weakened position. I usually squat back, with a wide-ish stance, and prevent my knees from going to far, if at all, past my toes. But I've noticed that squatting with a narrow stance and more of a OLY style doesn't make any difference. If I keep my lower back tight, with a slight arch, I go down to just below parallel before I can't hold it and my pelvis tips backwards making my lower back curve a bit and bringing my glutes closer to my calves.

Thank you in advance for your help. Anybody else feel free to chime in as well.

 

[Bob Smith]

I do have a 36" inseam.

Dude, are you about 8 feet tall?!

 

[CyniQ]

Dude, are you about 8 feet tall?!

LOL. Sorry. I think my actual inseam is 32". I don't know where I got 36". Maybe that's what I wear in pants??

It's not really that much better if I don't know my pant size is it?

Do you want to help or not??

 

[Bob Smith]

It sounds like you and I have the same issue with squatting. I talked to Freddy about it and he basically said that as long as the rounding is pretty minor, then its nothing to worry about.

But at least I know what my inseam is.

 

[Girth]

This envy of the giraffe, is only 5'10" with an inseam of 34". So per the laws of physics (W=F x D), we avatars of Toys 'R' Us, are hard working squatters. But didn't someone ask for help?

I'm no JS, but I was squatting last night with your question in mind. It seems to me that the slight rounding is a necessity in the bottom position. Why? To keep the bar properly balanced over the median of your body. Keeping the full arch in the bottom postion would actually place the weight behind you, to the point of loss of balance. The only thing to worry about, is not reacquiring the arch of your back as you begin to raise to the standing position.

 

[CyniQ]

This envy of the giraffe, is only 5'10" with an inseam of 34". So per the laws of physics (W=F x D), we avatars of Toys 'R' Us, are hard working squatters. But didn't someone ask for help?

I'm no JS, but I was squatting last night with your question in mind. It seems to me that the slight rounding is a necessity in the bottom position. Why? To keep the bar properly balanced over the median of your body. Keeping the full arch in the bottom postion would actually place the weight behind you, to the point of loss of balance. The only thing to worry about, is not reacquiring the arch of your back as you begin to raise to the standing position.

You may not be JS. But I DEFINITELY consider your advice valuable.

I haven't been overly concerned about it because, as I said, it doesn't cause me any pain. Someone on another board suggested that I have tight glutes. I don't know if he was trying to help... or hitting on me. I really don't think that flexibility is an issue, I can SLDL on a platform and lower the bar until my fingers contact the platform. Without bending my knees.

 

[Girth]

Can you actually assign a value to advice given via the internet? We'll have to say yes, otherwise the kingdom of the message board would crumble. And it's members would become what would best be described as exiled Jedi.

Regardless of the above rambling, I do appreciate the compliment. But as to your tight glutes, all kidding aside, you might want to try a different approach. Your hamstrings are pliable, as demonstrated by your ROM on the SLDL. However, you could still have tight glutes. As I was in the same situation.

To determine this, utilize this stretch. Lay on the ground. Place your left ankle, just above your right knee. Then try to pull your right knee to your chest, while also pushing down on the inside of your left knee. I GUARANTEE you'll feel that in your glutes. Repeat for the other side of course.

 

[CyniQ]

Can you actually assign a value to advice given via the internet? We'll have to say yes, otherwise the kingdom of the message board would crumble. And it's members would become what would best be described as exiled Jedi.

Regardless of the above rambling, I do appreciate the compliment. But as to your tight glutes, all kidding aside, you might want to try a different approach. Your hamstrings are pliable, as demonstrated by your ROM on the SLDL. However, you could still have tight glutes. As I was in the same situation.

To determine this, utilize this stretch. Lay on the ground. Place your left ankle, just above your right knee. Then try to pull your right knee to your chest, while also pushing down on the inside of your left knee. I GUARANTEE you'll feel that in your glutes. Repeat for the other side of course.

Good call. I haven't got shit there. About 8" and it hurts like hell. I feel it on the outside of my hip though. Not my ass. That's at least, my perception, anyway.

I've been reading Mark Rippetoes' book Starting Strength. In the squatting section he makes a brief referrence to some extremely flexible people having the ability to relax their hamstrings to the point of going too deep into the hole. The picture provided looks very much like my typical form. Does this sound plausible to you? Maybe by conciously contracting my hamstrings I can achieve a more appropriate depth. I'm squattin today. I think I'll give this a shot.

 

[Bob Smith]

If you are feeling it on the outside of your thigh and not very much in your butt, then you could also have very tight iliotibial bands. They run down the outside of your thigh and can become very tight. I had that problem about a year or so ago.

Also, tight calves can cause some forward lean in your squat.

 

[Girth]

Thanks Bob! All I could remember was the "ili" part of that damn muscle's name. I too had a problem with this. So much so, that it literally locked up on me and prevented any form of hip movement. I had to go to a massage therapist to have it released. Haven't had a days problem since that time. I also incorporate the above stretch regularly though, to prevent its reoccurrence.

As for "consciously contracting your hamstrings," CyniQ. I can't speak to that, as it takes pretty much all my focus to get the weight back up and balance it as well. I prefer to simply tell my body to stand up, and allow it to choose which parts of the leg will get it there. Within the constraints of good form of course.

It's kind of simple I know, but weight training isn't meant to be mentally tough.

 

[CyniQ]

I think you guys may be onto something there.

Forward lean is not really a problem. I collapse a little on really heavy sets when I'm fatigued, but I think everyone does this to some extent. I watched a video of a guy squatting 800 the other day and he leaned way forward. Not saying that it makes it okay. I'm just saying that most of us do it from time to time.

Bob. When you had trouble with your IB's. What were the symptoms? What did you do to correct the problem. Did you mean to say earlier that you STILL experience some pelvic rotation at the bottom of a deep squat?

 

[Bob Smith]

Yeah, I still get a little back rounding at the bottom. But I wouldnt say it was ever caused by a tight IT band. Here is some info on it. [font=arial,sans-serif][size=-1]http://www.shape.bc.ca/resources/pdf/part4.3.pdf

Fixing the problem usually requires some serious massage in the area. One way to massage it is get a very stiff foam cylinder (like those pool noodles, only stiff) or use a rolling pin. Lay on top of it with your hip/outer thigh against the roller and slowly roll up and down your thigh. It will hurt like hell, but its about the only way to loosen up.
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[johnsmith182]

rounding back

the thing i would look for is where the weight is on the foot... if your weight is going forward toward the toes at the bottom of the squat, you need to fix that. with what you describe, that is often the case. if the weight is staying in the same place on your foot, mid to heel, somewhere in there, all the way to the bottom, and you dont have any pain or discomfort, then your probably ok... its not ideal but some do it. some of my guys round just a tiny bit at the very bottom.

 

[CyniQ]

the thing i would look for is where the weight is on the foot... if your weight is going forward toward the toes at the bottom of the squat, you need to fix that. with what you describe, that is often the case. if the weight is staying in the same place on your foot, mid to heel, somewhere in there, all the way to the bottom, and you dont have any pain or discomfort, then your probably ok... its not ideal but some do it. some of my guys round just a tiny bit at the very bottom.

Thank you very much for the response. I keep my weight towards my heels throughout (with occasional exceptions. everyone gets sloppy once in a while, right?). In fact the more I "sit back" the more rounding I get. If I let my knees go forward and keep my body more vertical, it's less of a problem. But when I squat in that stance its harder to force my knees apart, they tend to pull together. I can certainly work on that, though.

I do want to stress that I can go much deeper into the hole than most people I've seen. Rip touches on this subject very briefly in SS. Which is part of what got me thinking about it. He says that slimmer more flexible people have this tendancy. At 6'1" and 185, I definitely fall into this category. I know that there's no magic pill. I really appreciate your input.