Questions for trt bros

dennis

New Member
OK bros..for those of you in the "know" anyways..and by the way if you do not "know" then do not bullshit or be a parrot please;)
As you already know I am off cycle now,run 1.5 cycles per year,am 44 going on 60.I feel great on cycle and feel normal to bad off cycle.My sex drive off cycle really sucks now and has been going down hill for 5 years now.I only get the "urge" about once every 10 days or so.Explain pros and cons of hrt,trt at my age.And also I would have to get blood work done by local doctor,when would be the best time to do that where my levels would be low for sure ?Also gel vs injectables..
 
Hey bro, Not sure what all the pros/ cons of TRT would be.. but at your age.. especially if you've done many cycles I would say that your natural test production is declining significantly.. so getting replacement therapy would mean that you'd be back on top.... forever basically. The only downside that I see is that once you're on.. you're on for good.. because your natural production will completely stop... which was fine with me. .cause I feel so much better with this replacement test anyway.. the only other thing is that you're basically sterile.. which again for me was/ is great.. don't have to worry bout birth control too much.. As for the health side effects.. from what I've read on the whole you're really more healthy on than off.. if your test levels are low.. I don't believe there's anything more dangerous about bein on than off.. even prostate cancer..if you read alot of different reports is probably more due to low test/ high estrogen levels than to higher test levels.. So I personally feel like it makes me healthier.. I know I feel very good.. alot better than most my age.. and look young for my age.. ( I am 41.. been on for 10 years.. my test levels were low)

I've always been on shots.. never bothered me to use and your levels will be much higher with those..plus cheaper.. as far as when's the best time to test not really sure.. although if you think you may not be low enough to warrant TRT.. there are ways to make you natural test lower temporarily..

Anyway, I think that's bout all I have to contribute.. let me know if I can be any help... As I said I've been "on" for a decade and I am very glad that I am.. nothing bad to say bout it....
 
heres something I found on T-nation Dennis............





Your Doctor, Your Dealer
How to get what you want from your MD
by Cy Willson


Da man has what you need. He can hook you up with the good stuff no fakes, no counterfeits, no problem. His gear is always legit and of the highest quality. This cat is on the inside, my man, a true player. He even has the police in his pocket. That's right, you won't even have to worry about legal hassles dealing with this dude. Now, I'll tell you who he is, but you gotta' promise to play it cool, alright, G? The best dealer in town is? your doctor!


Whuz up, Doc?

The doctor's office. It's not our favorite place to be. It smells funny. The magazines are always from 1987. It's full of sick little rug rats and there's a funny stain on the floor. To top it off, the receptionists aren't even hot. And all this is just in the waiting room! Let's not even talk about what goes on behind closed doors groping and squeezing and that damned cold stethoscope! After you go through all of that, you get to hear a lecture about the dangerous effects of "new" supplements like creatine and ephedrine. Your doctor may even suggest you take up walking if you want to be really fit and healthy.

So why in the world would you actually want to go to the doctor's office? Well, not all doctors are behind the times or extremely close-minded. We can use these evolved doctors to our advantage in order to obtain drugs that we'd otherwise have to purchase on the black market or in some other way which is essentially illegal. What kind of gear can your get from your MD? How about Clomid, Nolvadex, anastrozole, and plain old Testosterone! Sounds like a sweet deal, huh?

In the following article, I'll show you:

? How to find one of these more open-minded doctors.
? What to say to them in order to ultimately obtain what you desire.
? How to fiddle with your body to fool the tests.


The search for Dr. Feelgood

Here's the easiest part. The first thing you need to do is find a phone book. Now go to the yellow pages and find "Physicians." Got it? Okay, now look for any doctors specializing in natural and alternative medicine and weight control. If you can find one specializing in anti-aging, you have rung the cherries. Now, decide what you want (within reason) and call and make an appointment.



Now, even the most open minded docs will still require you to have a hormonal profile evaluation on your blood before they'll consider T replacement. Don't worry though, with these more open minded doctors, your total and free T levels will have to be pretty high for them not to consider replacement. From my personal experience, my total Testosterone was around 700ng/dl while my free Testosterone was 183pg/ml. Even so, my doc gave me a 300mg injection of Testosterone enanthate to see if I noticed any improvements over the following week.

Obviously, every doctor has his or her own opinion on what's "normal". The great thing about the type of doctors we're looking for is that they're more open to helping us get to that high physiological range. This particular doctor wasn't satisfied unless I was at 1,100ng/dl or slightly higher. The only barrier was the insurance. You see, they typically require some lab documentation of "low" Testosterone. They want the lab results to show levels below normal in total and/or free Testosterone.

So, it was time to do some "monkeying," if you catch what I'm saying. Well, I did some tinkering around with my body and my next blood draw revealed a total T-level of 185 ng/dl and a free level of 14 pg/ml. Consequently, I walked out of the office with a legit script for Testosterone, while only paying five bucks for the therapy.

Now, most docs will give you a choice between Androgel or 200-300 mg/week injections. While not being super potent in terms of increasing LBM (like 500/mg a week), this amount would still allow you to reach the high range (if you aren't already hypogonadal).

So now I bet some of you guys want to know how to temporarily lower your T-levels so you can get some doctor prescribed Testosterone. I'll give you some tips at the end, but I'd like to first give you some other pointers.

Symptoms

When you meet with the doctor, he may ask you what symptoms you have or he may ask you some questions which will help him determine if you have a Testosterone deficiency. Tell the doctor the following or answer yes to any questions that pertain to these symptoms. You can give these symptoms in order to help convince the doc to write a script for any of the drugs listed.

? Lethargy
? Lack of sex drive (Not necessarily erections, but lack of sexual desire)
? Possible slight depression
? You gain fat easily
? Have a hard time gaining muscle despite increased calorie intake
? Can't get a good workout (Can't focus, have little drive, can't get a good pump etc.)


Monkeying with the blood test

In order to lower your Testosterone levels, you'll have to do some moderately drastic things. In fact, this will be a pain in the ass! Now, I realize that all this borders on the verge of excess, but hey, if you want it bad enough, you'll be willing to make some rather extreme sacrifices.

First, decrease calorie intake for about a week. If you can, don't eat 24 to 48 hours before the blood draw. When you do eat, eliminate carbs and fat. You'll only be eating protein during the week and preferably nothing the last 24 to 48 hours, except for a drink. The drink will be alcohol.

That's right, this will be the only time I'll actually recommend drinking, but it'll help. To be on the safe side, drink 3 to 5 beers (or equivalent in liquor) a day for 6 to10 days prior to the test. The night before the test, go ahead and have 6 or 7, or whatever it takes to get you drunk enough not to drive. About two hours prior to the test, have 3 to 4 beers.

Since this will all be on an empty stomach, you should have someone drive you to the office and back. Try not to grab the nurse's ass if you start to get tipsy and if there's a lamp in the office, try not to wear the shade as a hat while singing The Village People's "YMCA," accompanied by the appropriate hand motions.

As far as training, you'll be training twice a day including cardio for this entire week in order to raise cortisol levels. This will lower Testosterone as well. I'd also like you to get very little sleep. Around 3 to 4 hours per night and zero sleep the night before the big test. In other words, do everything ass-backwards!

You could also try a birth control pill. However, I don't have any first-hand experience with this method, so I can't say how well it'll work. If what you're trying to get is Arimidex (by displaying elevated estrogen levels), you could try the pill along with androstendione, although I probably wouldn't do it personally.

To really put yourself over the edge, try to watch as many reruns as possible of Designing Women on Lifetime. Your T levels are sure to plummet, unless you decide to kill yourself or become an interior decorator first. Seriously, you may also want to pick up some licorice root. Take around 3,000 mg a day for 6 to10 days until the test. I do, however, want to warn you that you'll need to get plenty of potassium in your diet, as licorice will lower potassium levels. Neglecting this aspect, especially if you're going to be drinking alcohol, too, can be dangerous.

All of these things combined should dramatically reduce your T-levels to the point where you'll qualify for replacement. Oh yeah, and try not to partake in any sexual activity. You'll probably be too fatigued to "bone" anyhow.


Conclusion

Hopefully I've convinced you that lying and deceit are always the way to go when it comes to healthcare. No, I'm only kidding! Seriously, not all doctors are brainwashed and close minded. You just have to look around to find the better ones. Remember to insist that it's your Testosterone levels causing the problems and that you'd like to try the given drug in order to solve the deficiency.

Be up-front about what it is you want from the doctor. Remember, they're there to serve you! Don't be scared about what they might say. What are they going to do? If by chance, the doctor doesn't agree to help you or at least work with you in some way, then it's time to move on. There are plenty of other doctors around. Now go out there and make me proud!
 
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The thing that keeps stopping me izzat once you're on, you're on for the rest of your life. What if the economy goes sour & you can no longer get your prescriptions, or you have to move to some isolated place with less sympathetic doctors? What if supplies dry up? As low as testosterone levels get between cycles, if you're on TRT and lose your right to prescriptions or can't get the right doctor, your testosterone will be basically zero. I've thought about TRT too (after all, I am 58 years crazy), but so far in blood tests the levels always eventually return to the normal. But that's normal for my age! I certainly don't feel as good as I do on-cycle. But the idea of full chemical dependence for testosterone frankly scares me. Without my fix, I'm basically a eunuch.

Of course, most of us who get on TRT will end up supplementing our prescriptions, so it's like the cycle that never ends, is it not?

The road forks, it seems, and there are disadvantages to taking either path.

Solo
 
The thing that keeps stopping me izzat once you're on, you're on for the rest of your life. What if the economy goes sour & you can no longer get your prescriptions, or you have to move to some isolated place with less sympathetic doctors? What if supplies dry up? As low as testosterone levels get between cycles, if you're on TRT and lose your right to prescriptions or can't get the right doctor, your testosterone will be basically zero. I've thought about TRT too (after all, I am 58 years crazy), but so far in blood tests the levels always eventually return to the normal. But that's normal for my age! I certainly don't feel as good as I do on-cycle. But the idea of full chemical dependence for testosterone frankly scares me. Without my fix, I'm basically a eunuch.

Of course, most of us who get on TRT will end up supplementing our prescriptions, so it's like the cycle that never ends, is it not?

The road forks, it seems, and there are disadvantages to taking either path.

Solo
Solo..you are ALWAYS the voice of reason.. I do not think I am ready to be a eunic although I have been feeling like one lately.:(
 
IT is deifnately something to thing long and hard about before making a decision. I have to admit that each time I go off cycle I think about it . I have whent so far as to make an endo appointment after I had my levels tested a few years ago and I was at the bottom end of the spectrum just 25 points above the limit for prescription . This was after 6 months being off and going through a standard nolva pct. I ended up talking with my wife and deciding to just go through another PCT protocal with some HCG and got my levels up to mid range.
I am going to be 37 this year and I have a feeling I wont be making it to Solo's age before I go on TRT though.
 
I will be 45 in april,have extreme low sex drive now..body fat comes on like crazy,lean gain is almost impossible,keeping weight on impossible,tired,run down,feeling old..damn it the temptation..I know my doc will do it.I just need to be very sure my levels are low before the blood work is done.
 
Hey the olympics are over, maybe just maybe things will get back to a semblance of what they used to be and you can get a powder stockpile for the just in case situations if you do decide to take the TRT plunge......
 
I will be 45 in april,have extreme low sex drive now..body fat comes on like crazy,lean gain is almost impossible,keeping weight on impossible,tired,run down,feeling old..damn it the temptation..I know my doc will do it.I just need to be very sure my levels are low before the blood work is done.
Tex (Dennis, that is), you've never run human growth hormone, it seems. It's expensive, sure, but so is exogenous test all year round. HGH won't help your sex drive, but it would stop body fat increase, hold on to your AAS gains, and help you feel rested & ready. Have you considered it?

To decide on TRT, I suggest you plan another AAS cycle after the appropriate waiting time but this time don't pussyfoot around with low doses. Go ahead and pump yourself up (as the governator might say). Run a real veteran's cycle starting with Test p & Tren ace while building up Test e (or Sust) along with Tren e. Go at least 12 weeks and remind yourself what it's like to feel fully alive. Come off that cycle gradually with plenty of HCG & a good PCT, wait six weeks, THEN decide if you're a candidate for TRT or not. I'm guessing at that time the decision will be clear.:cool:

Solo
 
Yes he does..all you guys need to get together now and take up a "collection" for tex !;)
GH is expensive, yes, Tex, but do you need a collection for AAS like Test & Tren? Thought the Mexican republic had good bargains for that everywhere south of the border.:rolleyes:

Good things cost, no doubt about it. It's priorities, I reckon.

Solo
 
heres something I found on T-nation Dennis............





Your Doctor, Your Dealer
How to get what you want from your MD
by Cy Willson


Da man has what you need. He can hook you up with the good stuff no fakes, no counterfeits, no problem. His gear is always legit and of the highest quality. This cat is on the inside, my man, a true player. He even has the police in his pocket. That's right, you won't even have to worry about legal hassles dealing with this dude. Now, I'll tell you who he is, but you gotta' promise to play it cool, alright, G? The best dealer in town is? your doctor!


Whuz up, Doc?

The doctor's office. It's not our favorite place to be. It smells funny. The magazines are always from 1987. It's full of sick little rug rats and there's a funny stain on the floor. To top it off, the receptionists aren't even hot. And all this is just in the waiting room! Let's not even talk about what goes on behind closed doors groping and squeezing and that damned cold stethoscope! After you go through all of that, you get to hear a lecture about the dangerous effects of "new" supplements like creatine and ephedrine. Your doctor may even suggest you take up walking if you want to be really fit and healthy.

So why in the world would you actually want to go to the doctor's office? Well, not all doctors are behind the times or extremely close-minded. We can use these evolved doctors to our advantage in order to obtain drugs that we'd otherwise have to purchase on the black market or in some other way which is essentially illegal. What kind of gear can your get from your MD? How about Clomid, Nolvadex, anastrozole, and plain old Testosterone! Sounds like a sweet deal, huh?

In the following article, I'll show you:

? How to find one of these more open-minded doctors.
? What to say to them in order to ultimately obtain what you desire.
? How to fiddle with your body to fool the tests.


The search for Dr. Feelgood

Here's the easiest part. The first thing you need to do is find a phone book. Now go to the yellow pages and find "Physicians." Got it? Okay, now look for any doctors specializing in natural and alternative medicine and weight control. If you can find one specializing in anti-aging, you have rung the cherries. Now, decide what you want (within reason) and call and make an appointment.



Now, even the most open minded docs will still require you to have a hormonal profile evaluation on your blood before they'll consider T replacement. Don't worry though, with these more open minded doctors, your total and free T levels will have to be pretty high for them not to consider replacement. From my personal experience, my total Testosterone was around 700ng/dl while my free Testosterone was 183pg/ml. Even so, my doc gave me a 300mg injection of Testosterone enanthate to see if I noticed any improvements over the following week.

Obviously, every doctor has his or her own opinion on what's "normal". The great thing about the type of doctors we're looking for is that they're more open to helping us get to that high physiological range. This particular doctor wasn't satisfied unless I was at 1,100ng/dl or slightly higher. The only barrier was the insurance. You see, they typically require some lab documentation of "low" Testosterone. They want the lab results to show levels below normal in total and/or free Testosterone.

So, it was time to do some "monkeying," if you catch what I'm saying. Well, I did some tinkering around with my body and my next blood draw revealed a total T-level of 185 ng/dl and a free level of 14 pg/ml. Consequently, I walked out of the office with a legit script for Testosterone, while only paying five bucks for the therapy.

Now, most docs will give you a choice between Androgel or 200-300 mg/week injections. While not being super potent in terms of increasing LBM (like 500/mg a week), this amount would still allow you to reach the high range (if you aren't already hypogonadal).

So now I bet some of you guys want to know how to temporarily lower your T-levels so you can get some doctor prescribed Testosterone. I'll give you some tips at the end, but I'd like to first give you some other pointers.

Symptoms

When you meet with the doctor, he may ask you what symptoms you have or he may ask you some questions which will help him determine if you have a Testosterone deficiency. Tell the doctor the following or answer yes to any questions that pertain to these symptoms. You can give these symptoms in order to help convince the doc to write a script for any of the drugs listed.

? Lethargy
? Lack of sex drive (Not necessarily erections, but lack of sexual desire)
? Possible slight depression
? You gain fat easily
? Have a hard time gaining muscle despite increased calorie intake
? Can't get a good workout (Can't focus, have little drive, can't get a good pump etc.)


Monkeying with the blood test

In order to lower your Testosterone levels, you'll have to do some moderately drastic things. In fact, this will be a pain in the ass! Now, I realize that all this borders on the verge of excess, but hey, if you want it bad enough, you'll be willing to make some rather extreme sacrifices.

First, decrease calorie intake for about a week. If you can, don't eat 24 to 48 hours before the blood draw. When you do eat, eliminate carbs and fat. You'll only be eating protein during the week and preferably nothing the last 24 to 48 hours, except for a drink. The drink will be alcohol.

That's right, this will be the only time I'll actually recommend drinking, but it'll help. To be on the safe side, drink 3 to 5 beers (or equivalent in liquor) a day for 6 to10 days prior to the test. The night before the test, go ahead and have 6 or 7, or whatever it takes to get you drunk enough not to drive. About two hours prior to the test, have 3 to 4 beers.

Since this will all be on an empty stomach, you should have someone drive you to the office and back. Try not to grab the nurse's ass if you start to get tipsy and if there's a lamp in the office, try not to wear the shade as a hat while singing The Village People's "YMCA," accompanied by the appropriate hand motions.

As far as training, you'll be training twice a day including cardio for this entire week in order to raise cortisol levels. This will lower Testosterone as well. I'd also like you to get very little sleep. Around 3 to 4 hours per night and zero sleep the night before the big test. In other words, do everything ass-backwards!

You could also try a birth control pill. However, I don't have any first-hand experience with this method, so I can't say how well it'll work. If what you're trying to get is Arimidex (by displaying elevated estrogen levels), you could try the pill along with androstendione, although I probably wouldn't do it personally.

To really put yourself over the edge, try to watch as many reruns as possible of Designing Women on Lifetime. Your T levels are sure to plummet, unless you decide to kill yourself or become an interior decorator first. Seriously, you may also want to pick up some licorice root. Take around 3,000 mg a day for 6 to10 days until the test. I do, however, want to warn you that you'll need to get plenty of potassium in your diet, as licorice will lower potassium levels. Neglecting this aspect, especially if you're going to be drinking alcohol, too, can be dangerous.

All of these things combined should dramatically reduce your T-levels to the point where you'll qualify for replacement. Oh yeah, and try not to partake in any sexual activity. You'll probably be too fatigued to "bone" anyhow.


Conclusion

Hopefully I've convinced you that lying and deceit are always the way to go when it comes to healthcare. No, I'm only kidding! Seriously, not all doctors are brainwashed and close minded. You just have to look around to find the better ones. Remember to insist that it's your Testosterone levels causing the problems and that you'd like to try the given drug in order to solve the deficiency.

Be up-front about what it is you want from the doctor. Remember, they're there to serve you! Don't be scared about what they might say. What are they going to do? If by chance, the doctor doesn't agree to help you or at least work with you in some way, then it's time to move on. There are plenty of other doctors around. Now go out there and make me proud!

Informative yet intertaining :D

HDH
 
Dennis, I noticed that you didn't start a thread in the Men's Health Forum.

HDH
 
My bad big guy..what are your thoughts on my questions..put yourself in my 44 year old shoes.....
 
I am getting into this pretty hard about now. I have light experience with Test only cycles. 1st you will need to consider the last juice you were on and its half-life elimination time. Test only for example and you will be at ROCK BOTTOM in 4 weeks.

1) Have not looked at your log yet. Did you ever feel your nutz very sore and swollen feeling during your taper, or yet for that matter.???

(2)What is your experience with HCG? Last time used.??

(3)MOST IMPORTANTLY, Read the book by Eugene Shippen (i believe thats his name), "The Testosterone Syndrome"

It is interesting to see you looking down this road. If you do go there you will find there is so much information that we miss on the BB side of AAS, you are going to feel like you have only been taking half advantage of the benefits of AAS. Once you learn this information, you will see things in a whole new light and probably double your effectiveness between on and off, overall. :)
 
The thing that keeps stopping me izzat once you're on, you're on for the rest of your life. What if the economy goes sour & you can no longer get your prescriptions, or you have to move to some isolated place with less sympathetic doctors? What if supplies dry up? As low as testosterone levels get between cycles, if you're on TRT and lose your right to prescriptions or can't get the right doctor, your testosterone will be basically zero. I've thought about TRT too (after all, I am 58 years crazy), but so far in blood tests the levels always eventually return to the normal. But that's normal for my age! I certainly don't feel as good as I do on-cycle. But the idea of full chemical dependence for testosterone frankly scares me. Without my fix, I'm basically a eunuch.

Of course, most of us who get on TRT will end up supplementing our prescriptions, so it's like the cycle that never ends, is it not?

The road forks, it seems, and there are disadvantages to taking either path.

Solo
I think with the millions of middle aged American men a majority with low testosterone and the drug companies cashing in, I don't think we'll ever see it not available. Funny, even politicians see the light when they can't get an erection! I've been on trt for about 10 years, it's cheap, $100 for 3 months, and feel great. I've gone off just a couple of times to see what would happen and at the lowest it still stays around 225 for totals and almost normal for free testosterone. The literature is vast on the cardio, brain, and diabetes peotection.
 
The thing that keeps stopping me izzat once you're on, you're on for the rest of your life. What if the economy goes sour & you can no longer get your prescriptions, or you have to move to some isolated place with less sympathetic doctors? What if supplies dry up? As low as testosterone levels get between cycles, if you're on TRT and lose your right to prescriptions or can't get the right doctor, your testosterone will be basically zero. I've thought about TRT too (after all, I am 58 years crazy), but so far in blood tests the levels always eventually return to the normal. But that's normal for my age! I certainly don't feel as good as I do on-cycle. But the idea of full chemical dependence for testosterone frankly scares me. Without my fix, I'm basically a eunuch.

Of course, most of us who get on TRT will end up supplementing our prescriptions, so it's like the cycle that never ends, is it not?

The road forks, it seems, and there are disadvantages to taking either path.

Solo
I think with the millions of middle aged American men a majority with low testosterone and the drug companies cashing in, I don't think we'll ever see it not available. Funny, even politicians see the light when they can't get an erection! I've been on trt for about 10 years, it's cheap, $100 for 3 months, and feel great. I've gone off just a couple of times to see what would happen and at the lowest it still stays around 225 for totals and almost normal for free testosterone. The literature is vast on the cardio, brain, and diabetes protection.
 
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