MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Questions for trt bros
- Thread starter dennis
- Start date
If the pharmacies go down there will be people that are more in trouble than you would be with no testosterone. Diabetics who rely on insulin would be in major trouble for example. So you would not be the only one
Don't believe I mentioned that possibility.
The curious, like Tex and me, would like to hear from those on permanent TRT or those who simply bridge off AAS but never really come off. Do you ever worry about your injections or pills or skin-patches not being available or being unable to get them? Is travel much trouble? When you come down to bridge or stay only at TRT levels, do you look forward to ratcheting up your doses to body-building levels once again? Are you always horny?
(I know better; even on high volume test, the brain itself cycles its moods.)Any info, HDH?
Solo
dennis
New Member
Solo,what raised this question to me (trt) was when I was tapering off my last cycle and only using 50 mgs sust per week I felt like superman,was still gaining size,keeping body fat low,and the sex drive was still very good.
No offense but you guys have lost your damn minds to the propaganda. If you are referring to testosterone supplementation/replacement there is simply way too much confusion out there. You are doing much more harm to your endocrine axis by doing the more exotic chemicals and in the larger quantities. These things do much more harm to your natural system than simply replacing with 100 mgs/week of test cyp. I was on as long as nine months dosing as high as 900mgs/week and managed to taper down for one month and then quit cold. Everything restarted within 4 weeks after one month taper. the real risk is running out of HCG. I am pretty sure as long as you get some of that in about 5 times a year, the boys will remember how to kick in. No HCG avail, then the nutz may definitely go to sleep a little bit deeper.
The real issue is could you guys handle being "normal" for a while. The answer is no. you simply would not have the ass to work out like you are accustomed to. One thing is people say that long term use and you never come back to your original levels. Of course you don't, you have now aged and naturally declined and resurfaced to find your new "older" and lower level.
None of you are ever "off" anyway. No matter how you slice it, whether it be test, clomid, nolva, adex, you are cycling something exogenous to artificially control your hormones. IT IS ALL AAS.
Even the medical studies that state that the folks that did HRT for periods of 2 years and took at least that much time to return to "almost normal" were skewed. They did not include HCG maintenance keeping the boys used to receiving the signal. I believe 2500ius every 8 weeks completely elimninates lag time for return to normal function for possibly years.
What you guys are not considering is how damaging it is to introduce these extermely large amounts, and in a short time. The higher the anabolic reaction, the bigger the shut down. Deca has a 14 day half life, and that is depending on your body's ability to process it. Yours could be longer. It only takes a small amount of that stuff to turn you off as compared to test. Simply due to the strictly anabolic nature of it (as I understand it). You stack up 10 weeks of that stuff and you are going to be shut down for 6 months post cycle. You can take all the clomid you want, but when you discontinue after 4 weeks and the clomid clears your system, that deca is still gonna be there shutting you back down. Technically, you can supplement 70 mgs of test/wk and not get shut down at all, at least in a short run. Sure you would eventually downregulate.
And you guys area worried about testosterone replacement??? Get a grip!! Even if you had been supping 200mgs/wk for 5 years WITHOUT HCG. I you were still under 70, you could discontinue and if the boys dont come on line. Just pick up a hammer, do some heavy manual labor, and they will be. You are talking about a bizillion years of evolution. Synthetic testosterone, which is the most bioidentical thing you can use for AAS, is the very least of your worries.....
The real issue is could you guys handle being "normal" for a while. The answer is no. you simply would not have the ass to work out like you are accustomed to. One thing is people say that long term use and you never come back to your original levels. Of course you don't, you have now aged and naturally declined and resurfaced to find your new "older" and lower level.
None of you are ever "off" anyway. No matter how you slice it, whether it be test, clomid, nolva, adex, you are cycling something exogenous to artificially control your hormones. IT IS ALL AAS.
Even the medical studies that state that the folks that did HRT for periods of 2 years and took at least that much time to return to "almost normal" were skewed. They did not include HCG maintenance keeping the boys used to receiving the signal. I believe 2500ius every 8 weeks completely elimninates lag time for return to normal function for possibly years.
What you guys are not considering is how damaging it is to introduce these extermely large amounts, and in a short time. The higher the anabolic reaction, the bigger the shut down. Deca has a 14 day half life, and that is depending on your body's ability to process it. Yours could be longer. It only takes a small amount of that stuff to turn you off as compared to test. Simply due to the strictly anabolic nature of it (as I understand it). You stack up 10 weeks of that stuff and you are going to be shut down for 6 months post cycle. You can take all the clomid you want, but when you discontinue after 4 weeks and the clomid clears your system, that deca is still gonna be there shutting you back down. Technically, you can supplement 70 mgs of test/wk and not get shut down at all, at least in a short run. Sure you would eventually downregulate.
And you guys area worried about testosterone replacement??? Get a grip!! Even if you had been supping 200mgs/wk for 5 years WITHOUT HCG. I you were still under 70, you could discontinue and if the boys dont come on line. Just pick up a hammer, do some heavy manual labor, and they will be. You are talking about a bizillion years of evolution. Synthetic testosterone, which is the most bioidentical thing you can use for AAS, is the very least of your worries.....
Nice rant, Wopper Popper BBC3. I enjoyed the zesty fuck-you wake-up attitude.
Problem izzat I'm not exactly sure what your point is. What propaganda? You mean against TRT? If so, what you're saying is hell yeah, get on TRT since we're so used to AAS hyper-use we're never get back to (younger) normal anyway. (That was a good point, by the way, about trying to be "normal" again when "normal" is 10 or 15 or 20 years ago.
)
Am I reading you wrong or right?
Solo (over & out)
Problem izzat I'm not exactly sure what your point is. What propaganda? You mean against TRT? If so, what you're saying is hell yeah, get on TRT since we're so used to AAS hyper-use we're never get back to (younger) normal anyway. (That was a good point, by the way, about trying to be "normal" again when "normal" is 10 or 15 or 20 years ago.
)Am I reading you wrong or right?
Solo (over & out)
Nice rant, Wopper Popper BBC3. I enjoyed the zesty fuck-you wake-up attitude.
Problem izzat I'm not exactly sure what your point is. What propaganda? You mean against TRT? If so, what you're saying is hell yeah, get on TRT since we're so used to AAS hyper-use we're never get back to (younger) normal anyway. (That was a good point, by the way, about trying to be "normal" again when "normal" is 10 or 15 or 20 years ago.
Am I reading you wrong or right?
Solo (over & out)
Solo, I must confess I have an appreciation for your STYLE!!!
]All I am saying is:
(1) There is not a single serious bodybuilder here that is ever "off".
(2) Testosterone is the SAFEST way to improve your life, PERIOD.
(3) Studies are showing that there is no long term danger or addiction to testosterone supplementation. In fact, the first few weeks of a cycle is the only time you really feel good (other than in the gym)
(4) When I say propoganda I mean all the press that "steroids" are bad. You must remember while synthetic testosterone is classified as a "steroid", it is bioidentical to natural testosterone. It is all the others that are alien to our bodies. Don't confuse it with the other chemical compounds out there..
(5) You can feel young all the time with the right dose. Otherwise you can feel old.
EVERYONE needs to read The Testosterone Syndrome. It dispells a lot of myths. Helps to explain just how positive hormone supplementation can be (too much E & E2=Death for men). I am finding that MOST of the folks out there "juicing" to bodybuild, are doing it completely inefficently due to ignorance. It is no ones fault. The information is just now becomming readily available.
Basically, the author is saying the we are living in Roman Times, and if you are not taking advantage of it, that is your fault. You can be young for a lot longer than previously thought. Most of the guys around here already have what it takes, that is, the balls to get a new set of balls. They just need a little further direction.
SO, what I am saying is that everyone is experiencing crazy declines in test after the age of 25. I believe it is incredibly accelerated these days. Most people's test has not dropped because they did a cycle too long. It dropped because they got older. Whether you megadose from time to time, or not, testosterone supplementation can ONLY HELP YOU after age 28. In fact why would you even think to let your body get so hammered by estrogens after a heavy cycle of something like Deca. That is probably the time when 100mgs/week of test is going to prevent you from getting the probs associated with binge usage. It could also save your health from a serious temporary estrogen imbalance, AND prevent you from having to commit chemical suicide with Nolvadex!!!! You all seemed so concerned about shutting yourselves down like HRT is some kind of life long commitment that there is no turning back on.
Well, you are right, it is a life long commitment if you want to feel good and have good balanced hormone levels past the age of 28. OR you can suffer and feel old in a society where you simply don't have to. There is no shutdown associated with long term use of test. You are already shut down due to age! That is the only reason you are shutdown. AND, the fact that you are consuming bottled water in plastics that is killing you (increasing estrogens), just to mention one thing.
Just dont forget your HCG. And dont take too much on the long term dosage. After all, the one common trait of everyone in prison is a high testosterone level.
juggernaught
New Member
Looks like I have a book to read ,Thanks BBC .
I have been going over to the mens health forum and reading over some of the threads and it seems as keeping everything in balance can be extremely dificult. What do you guys think do some tend to over complicate it ?
I have been going over to the mens health forum and reading over some of the threads and it seems as keeping everything in balance can be extremely dificult. What do you guys think do some tend to over complicate it ?
dennis
New Member
Very good info guys..gives me lot's to think about.I am wondering now if 50 mgs per week would be my magic number..I felt so damn good when I was injecting 50 mgs per week.
They are saying that the balance is difficult based on classic trt with test/ hcg / and maybe some adex. Do not compare apples and oranges. What goes on even here is not even close. Guys supping a whole bunch of everything have NOTHING in check!! As it turns out, E2 (estradiol) will spike pound for pound with testosterone increase. THIS IS EXACTLY WHY a cyp only cycle takes 7 weeks to kick. E2 completely neutralizes DHT. It is just that around week 6-8, your body finally says "fuck it", I cant keep up with E2 production and the DHT starts to win out.!!! HOWEVER, E2 simply cant keep up with a fast acting like DBOL which is why it helps get started.
SO, it just may be that a test only cycle would be Awsome if you start out with the right does of adex from the start. And you would need nothing else. You would be supprised how strong a 200mg/week dose of test cyp is after E2 starts to level of naturally. I just found that takes about 15 weeks without ADEX, or anything to combat. I simply could not stay there any long as the achne was out of control, and the scalp was getting that dreaded "itch". The E2 matches DHT step for step so well, that I really was not even getting good wood for most of that 15 weeks?!?!!! Without ADEX to control E2 you will simply have to wait it out on HRT. Then you will have more DHT than you can handle. For a cycler looking to use HRT between heavy doses, testosterone at 100-200mgs/wk seems to be the perfect solution. Nolva should be out of the question. Clomid is not that much healthier because all it does is bind a form of estrogen to the receptors to keep your own excess from binding during a period in which you have no natural test production. This still does not resolve the problem of all the excess estrogen in your body and what else it may be doing. This is another reason I am saying test between cycles is better. It will simply balance your hormones to more normal profile. If you have been on a strong anabolic, like deca, per say. This further perfects the reason to use test between cycles, as your only problem after that cycle is no test. Because as I understand it, DECA does not aromatize that badly, and should not leave a high estrogen level post. (someone correct me if I am wrong). So, why would you try to kill (nolva), or tell you body to ignor (clomid) the E & E2, when you could simply balace them properly with test??? With nolva you are also killing other things, like your prostate = cancer. In short test appears to be the most correct answer. Test would be the best thing to protect yourself while in a shut down period as once all the other half-lives are spent, test is a simple 4 weeks cold turkey and "boom", the boys fire up. HOWEVER, I CAN NOT EMPHASIZE HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO MAINTENANCE EVERY 6-8 WEEKS WITH ABOUT 2500IU'S OF HCG TO KEEP THE BOYS ALERT. The reason people are getting shut down for 6 months plus runs of test only is because the testicles have gone for so long without seeing the signal from the brain (LH i think), that they simply have a very hard time recognizing it.!!! You have to keep them used to getting what they need, OR THEY MAY FORGET. And you will be shut down. The more i am reading, the more that i am finding that test is the ONLY solution, for in between cycles. And the secret to a healthy life for those over 28-30. I am pretty sure the pros already know this. I cant tell you have many time I have heard through grapevines that the worlds best are "never" off. They supp doses of test year round and have been doing it for 20-30 years with no problems. This is why. All this crap about being shut down is only due to ignorance. Not understanding chemical half-lifes, and not understanding the importance of HCG and how to use it correctly. So now we have a mainstream group of juicers poisoning themselves with things like NOVLA???
To answer you question about balance. These TRT guys are talking about tweaking perfection. They are complaining about things much more minor than the bodybuilders have considered in comparison to what they are doing to them selves. These principle should definitely be utilized over here!! There are charted curves out there showing the responses to the various supps. When they say that E2 is difficult to control. They are referring to changes in doses. PLUS THE FACT THAT THEY SEEM TO GO CRAZY WITH HCG. This is strong mojo, and i do not belived it should be used in the way some of them are. Now there are some over there whos master glands are not producing LH anymore, and this is why they take it regular. But short of that diagnosis, it should not be taken in those doses at the intervals they are taking. It would indeed be a true curse to have that problem, where the master glands are not sending the signal, and for these E2 is going to be a huge problem with the administration of all that HCG. This completed throws the "Classic" TRT equation. You guys dont have that issue to worry with. When they say that any 50-100 mg change in test dosage will spike E2, what they mean it. If you are briefly at a higher point of test dosing, your E2 will be way up to match it and if you take test away, your E2 will still be high. This is not a spike, it is a result of lowering test still leaving the E2 high for a while. ALSO, when you increase test by that amount, E2 WILL spike to match it. This settles down with time. As I mentioned, I recently experimented with 200mgs/wk of test cyp only for 17 weeks. The first 4-5 weeks E2 was spiked up and I even had sensitive nips with no feeling of DHT whatsoever, except for week 1-2 I had great wood. Weeks 6-15 I felt NOTHING. I mean nothing. I was a little bloated, but the wood was gone, strength ok, but nothing exceptional. Then around week 15 I started getting back morning wood and feeling a better muscle pump. The E2 was now starting to subside as my body was adjusting the hormones to my normal male percental composition. The proportions of DHT, E2, etc were now correct, only WAY up. I am talking zits and sore scalp. Everything was now right in porportions just way too high . When they talk about keeping everything in check and balaced, this is what they are referring to. It becomes somewhat tedious. Dont get me wrong. One of the main problems TRT has is that you are dealing with that 8 day hald life with the cyp. This means, while with time and steady dosing, everything falls into your proper natural proportions. However, when you are adding a 50% increase to the amount of test in your body every week, you are taking all of these numbers way too high for natural mimic. This does not adhere to maderation being the key to healthiness. So what do you do? You skip a week of test but now you once in proportion E2 is now skewed high again. You cant hold out long enough without the test psychologically to allow enough time for E2 to subside. SO, here comes the ADEX, to mitigate that factor. But the degree of a problem to the body is nothing to what the megadosers embrace... Again, 15 weeks between cycles is the magic number like for BB. Test seems the best solution. I have not yet researched adex enough to determine whether it will enter my regimen. I have a pretty good feeling it is just a friendlier cousing of Nolva. So for now, i am just gonig to try to control E2 in other ways. They say low body fat will deminish the ability of E2 to form. Also oatmeal, flaxseed oil, and some others apparently control this issue for a lucky few out there. We will see.
But before you keep hammering yourself with exotic exogenous chemicals while cycling, you must start with that book. There is so much information out there today. They are now saying that it is not DHT that kills the prostate, but in fact it is E & E2. So much is comming to light today it is incredible.
If there are any HRT guys out there watching this one. Please chime in and correct me where you feel I am lacking. It is early, and I am young at this.
On a final note. You would all be supprised to find out how very few docs out there have A SINGLE FUCKING CLUE ABOUT THIS. I can not tell you how many people I have met lately that have seen a urologist (for god's sake), and he has prescribed them 200mgs test in (1) injection per month. THIS IS INSANE. That seems to me like a psychological suicide cocktail within about 2 years time.!! They should all be banned from even discussion hormone replacement.
Dennis, weren't you talking Tren. That doesnt count. But probably better than nolva. Just keep the HCG every 8 weeks...
dennis
New Member
No tren last cycle bro..sust only..when I was tapering down using low weekly doses I felt just like I was still '' on"....
