Ranking Steroids by Impact on Hematocrit

[ve79]

Hate to come in here and break stuff but putting aside individual responses to drugs which are always a factor, the vast majority of the drugs we use have the same magnitude of impact on things like hct/rbc. The same goes for their ability to build tissue. Total mg is always gonna be more a factor than the specific drugs…

Try some grapefruit/juice/extract so long as you’re not on any meds it interacts with. Keeps a good portion of my clients in high normal ranges which IMO is the best we can hope for.

That's a good point

 

[ve79]

I'm a middle aged dude with no intention of stepping on stage. I just enjoy bodybuilding. Due to some family history issues, I have made the personal decision to not push HCT levels as high as many members. I'm interested in the list due to my own harm reduction decisions to try to stay in range most of the time on HCT.

I am not looking for discussion/debate on what constitutes safe HCT number for most people. I understand it's pretty settled that for the average person its OK to be outside reference range to the high side.

My question: Based on various people's experience how would rank individual compounds from most impactful to least impactful.

Below is my understanding from most to least. I am a novice. I appreciate and welcome input from the more experienced people. Lastly, I'm a middle aged dude, I'm interested to hear any discussion on how impact to HCT with certain compounds may have changed with age.

1. EQ. Seems lots of people report impact to HCT--Also they report increased endurance which could be increase in RBC?
2. NPP/Deca. Some people report impacts to HCT.
3. Primo. Actually developed and studied to treat Anemia.
4. Testosterone. Some people see some increases on TRT alone.
5. Masteron. I haven't seen many reports of Mast causing impact.
6. Anavar. Haven't seen much on this. Though people running it for shorter times and maybe it just trashed lipids before getting to HCT?
7. Winstrol. Same as Anavar. Haven't seen much on it, assume its due to lower duration? However also an equine product so may need to be higher like EQ?

Things I didn't bother ranking because I haven't researched or done them: The other orals. Only tried Anadrol once for two days, BP shot up 35 points. Yeah fuck that. Didn't rank Tren because I've got a family and a life so I just skip over Tren threads.

I'm 46 I keep my dosages low to moderate with everything. I do agree anadrol will have your your lipds up and my ast alt were in the hundreds but I was on it for 5 weeks Wich was too long . Test can really increase HTC depending on dosage. I believe most of the drugs are going to increase everything. That's why I always take the less approach rather then more is better. You do need to be careful with orals especially when older . I take orals now for only 3 weeks maybe 4 but remember also the leaner you are the better to run a cycle especially if your prone to estrogen

 

[cLinic5a]

Test C at 120mg a week puts mine at 49-53. Added some deca for the joints and it didnt move. I think its really and individual response thing...

Test c started at about 120 gradually up to 166 through a useless clinic over a 4.5 month perios. Was stung by a wasp which I am allergic. Was not feeling well and went for some blood work. hct was 59 stopped all test cold turkey I know not too bright. Test at the time was 1500. Tested a week later and hct up to 61 and was well hydrated and test was down to 500. Had one therapeutic phlebotmy and it dropped it to 49. Back on half dose of test c and now have a standing order for a year phlebotomy.

 

[Bigoldguy]

Test c started at about 120 gradually up to 166 through a useless clinic over a 4.5 month perios. Was stung by a wasp which I am allergic. Was not feeling well and went for some blood work. hct was 59 stopped all test cold turkey I know not too bright. Test at the time was 1500. Tested a week later and hct up to 61 and was well hydrated and test was down to 500. Had one therapeutic phlebotmy and it dropped it to 49. Back on half dose of test c and now have a standing order for a year phlebotomy.

I talked to my doc and he doesnt sweat it till Im at 55+ then its phlebotomy time. 61 is pretty impressive! That sounds like it was closer to syrup than blood!

 

[cLinic5a]

Well it was not a goal I was shooting for. I started getting dizzy was the reason I went for the test. Of course, the online clinic thought it was fine to be at 57.2. The dizziness went away like my body adapted to it. I was like never out of breath.

 

[Avies48]

Trt alone with hcg causes my blood to thicken… whilst off test, certain vitamins also cause my blood to thicken… wish i could go on primo and all sorts of stuff but it may not ever happen…

 

[Nidus]

Trt alone with hcg causes my blood to thicken… whilst off test, certain vitamins also cause my blood to thicken… wish i could go on primo and all sorts of stuff but it may not ever happen…

Are you blasting a ton of Vit C and or B-Vitamins by chance or eat a ton of red meat?

 

[Avies48]

Are you blasting a ton of Vit C and or B-Vitamins by chance or eat a ton of red meat?

U know not a ton of vit c but a multiplex b vitamin a lot of times… red meat i try not to eat it too much

 

[bananafeet]

It's not mentioned much but apparently MT2 can raise HCT. My highest HCT reading was on MT2 and cycle which included a few weeks of anadrol so hard to nail it exactly.

But I've heard the HCT thing several times now with Melanotan 2.

 

[RockyP]

Some interesting discussion and article links on this topic (high HCT) in the most recent pages of the Arail Pharma thread. This is all terribly individualistic. One member here in this thread said masteron was worst for him. I’ve never heard that before (not questioning it). People make fun of masterin for not having typical AAS effects such as erythrocytosis. Perhaps the mast freed up More test and that bumped the HCT? Who knows. What we do know is the serial phlebotomy over time is not a good idea. Search around this board and look for the threads by members with low iron / ferritin. It sounds dreadful (and lasts for months).

TLDR HCT is the measurable factor we rely on for blood viscosity but doesn’t tell the whole story. Many other factors contribute. That said, lower is better all else being equal. High HCT and hypertension together is a problem that should be addressed asap.

 

[newguy2]

So there is no go to compound that is easy on hematocrit for everyone then? Bummer

 

[Ricky93]

Just to drop my personal experience:
Test will keep my hemotocrit normal.
Trestolone on the other hand has raised it above 50 and "I can feel it". My blood also darkens.
NPP at 150mg will put my chest/heart under pressure so I suspect it's also doing something regarding blood thickening.
Blood pressure increased a bit on trest. Usually it's at 100/70 and was at 120. Not sure if related could be the bloat from estrogen.

 

[Bigoldguy]

Just to drop my personal experience:
Test will keep my hemotocrit normal.
Trestolone on the other hand has raised it above 50 and "I can feel it". My blood also darkens.
NPP at 150mg will put my chest/heart under pressure so I suspect it's also doing something regarding blood thickening.
Blood pressure increased a bit on trest. Usually it's at 100/70 and was at 120. Not sure if related could be the bloat from estrogen.

Im curious, how much Trest were you running?

 

[NotHuman]

Well it was not a goal I was shooting for. I started getting dizzy was the reason I went for the test. Of course, the online clinic thought it was fine to be at 57.2. The dizziness went away like my body adapted to it. I was like never out of breath.

I’ve been in the 60 club for a long time. As far as I’m aware, I have no symptoms from it. I made sure to get my genetic clotting factors checked and I don’t have any, thankfully. My platelets never get high either, nor does my blood pressure.

Testosterone and nandrolone definitely jack my HCT up. I have never used EQ, nor do I plan on it, since I don’t want to push my luck.

 

[RockyP]

I’ve been in the 60 club for a long time. As far as I’m aware, I have no symptoms from it. I made sure to get my genetic clotting factors checked and I don’t have any, thankfully. My platelets never get high either, nor does my blood pressure.

Testosterone and nandrolone definitely jack my HCT up. I have never used EQ, nor do I plan on it, since I don’t want to push my luck.

What’s your PED regimen getting you to 60? Glad to hear you’ve been staying healthy.

 

[Ricky93]

Im curious, how much Trest were you running?

About 35 mg/week. The acne was crazy above that.

 

[NotHuman]

What’s your PED regimen getting you to 60? Glad to hear you’ve been staying healthy.

Just TRT gets me to almost 60. It is up to around 62 when adding low dose deca for joint support. I have no idea why it stays so high but I have an unconfirmed suspicion it’s related to donating blood an excessive amount of times in the past that made my body permanently raise EPO production and build more red blood cells than ever. I could be wrong but no other explanation makes sense.

 

[Bigoldguy]

Just TRT gets me to almost 60. It is up to around 62 when adding low dose deca for joint support. I have no idea why it stays so high but I have an unconfirmed suspicion it’s related to donating blood an excessive amount of times in the past that made my body permanently raise EPO production and build more red blood cells than ever. I could be wrong but no other explanation makes sense.

Im the same almost to the number as you but never donated blood. I think we just react to Test more than some.

 

[NotHuman]

Im the same almost to the number as you but never donated blood. I think we just react to Test more than some.

It’s possible. I have only donated once each of the last two years but I look at posts in disgust whenever someone is telling people they need to donate blood because their hematocrit is a certain number.

My excessive blood donations were mostly between 2016-2019. They did more harm than good. Crashed ferritin isn’t fun.

I had no hematocrit issues at all from the moment I started AAS in 2010 to 2014. It was never more than 50%. Then suddenly it got higher and higher.

 

[eryximachus]

Just TRT gets me to almost 60. It is up to around 62 when adding low dose deca for joint support. I have no idea why it stays so high but I have an unconfirmed suspicion it’s related to donating blood an excessive amount of times in the past that made my body permanently raise EPO production and build more red blood cells than ever. I could be wrong but no other explanation makes sense.

Fascinating.

I've never bought into the blood donation thing myself.

At various times I have heard that your bone marrow responds more strongly to androgens as you age. I've also heard that a benefit of testosterone gels and such is lower risk of elevated hematocrit. It's the constant stimulation of bone marrow by esterified androgens that, combined with age, becomes a problem.

But 62 is terrible. I'm sorry man. Way back in 2012, I did a 6 month blast of tren and then went skiing. Had trouble breathing on the mountain summit. Did a few runs, then hit a black diamond. The physical activity pushed me over th edge. I felt like I was going to suffocate. Went to the ER, had hematocrit levels like that. Scared the crap out of me. Never did anything crazy like that again.