Recomp - NPP and Test Cyp: Advice Pls

[Iron_Yuppie]

I am constantly exhausted. I am waking up multiple times every night. I am also needing naps once or twice a day. I might be overtrained. Currently deloading. Could this be linked to the blast or calorie deficit?

Could also be linked to the aromasin. Do you know that you need it or did you start taking it as a prophylactic without any high e2 symptoms?

 

[TRT_Training_Hard]

Could also be linked to the aromasin. Do you know that you need it or did you start taking it as a prophylactic without any high e2 symptoms?

My doc had me taking 1/4 an aromasin (6.25mg,) every 3 days when I was on 100mg Test + hcg as trt.

Eventually the aromasin wasn't needed and I stopped it, but my bloods were showing my e2 was at the mid to high range of normal. I figured since I am essentially tripling my AAS by increasing my test to 210mg and adding 90mg of NPP adding back in a small amount of aromasin would be a good idea.

 

[Iron_Yuppie]

My doc had me taking 1/4 an aromasin (6.25mg,) every 3 days when I was on 100mg Test + hcg as trt.

Eventually the aromasin wasn't needed and I stopped it, but my bloods were showing my e2 was at the mid to high range of normal. I figured since I am essentially tripling my AAS by increasing my test to 210mg and adding 90mg of NPP adding back in a small amount of aromasin would be a good idea.

Your e2 was in range, but on the higher end…and where was your testosterone? I’ll go way out on a limb and guess in range, but on the higher end. Am I right?

You do not take an AI because of a number on a piece of paper. It is medicine and it is used to treat symptoms. You wouldn’t take ibuprofen because you think you’re going to have a sore back from helping a friend move. On paper that’s the sort of thing that would cause some soreness later that day, but low and behold it caused no problems. You’re not still reaching for the Advil because of your theoretical pain, are you?

You likely pushed your e2 low enough that it’s causing all your symptoms. Stop doing that and see if you don’t feel much better.

 

[TRT_Training_Hard]

Your e2 was in range, but on the higher end…and where was your testosterone? I’ll go way out on a limb and guess in range, but on the higher end. Am I right?

You do not take an AI because of a number on a piece of paper. It is medicine and it is used to treat symptoms. You wouldn’t take ibuprofen because you think you’re going to have a sore back from helping a friend move. On paper that’s the sort of thing that would cause some soreness later that day, but low and behold it caused no problems. You’re not still reaching for the Advil because of your theoretical pain, are you?

You likely pushed your e2 low enough that it’s causing all your symptoms. Stop doing that and see if you don’t feel much better.

Thanks for the help @Iron_Yuppie

The attached shows my bloods when I was at my TRT dose and no Exemstane.

So with 3x the AAS you think I should cut the aromasin completely?

Maybe it is worth a try, I am just worried about gyno etc. How long would I need to cut it for to hopefully see my symptoms alleviate? Should I get bloods done now to better assess?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[TRT_Training_Hard]

Going to stop the aromasin and possibly the npp as well

 

[6tren]

Going to stop the aromasin and possibly the npp as well

Maybe try gong back to your baseline and letting the npp get out of your system?

It's okay to call a cycle off if you're not reacting well to a new compound, especially a 19-nor.

 

[TRT_Training_Hard]

Maybe try gong back to your baseline and letting the npp get out of your system?

It's okay to call a cycle off if you're not reacting well to a new compound, especially a 19-nor.

I called it off stopping both the npp and aromasin.

My bloods are back to normal now but still fighting fatigue. It has improved somewhat.

 

[malfeasance]

Consuming 2,500 calories per day

This is the most important thing for a guy at 20%, but you told us almost nothing. Could you please elaborate? What are you eating? Are you tracking?

 

[6tren]

I called it off stopping both the npp and aromasin.

My bloods are back to normal now but still fighting fatigue. It has improved somewhat.

Good to hear. When did you stop and when did you start feeling better?

I remember it took me around 2 months to start feeling back to normal after a mini tren ace run.

 

[malfeasance]

Hi Guys,

I am on TRT, am 41, and lift 3 to 4 times a week with BJJ 4 times a week. I am also doing 2 to 3 low intensity steady state cardio sessions each week.

This is my second blast ever. My first blast was 500mg Test and anavar at the end. It was brutal on my hairline so trying a more conservative approach. I am hoping this blast could be around 20 weeks with 10 weeks representing a recomp.

I started my recomp 2 weeks ago.

Starting Point:
6ft
105kg or 230lbs
19% to 20% BF
TRT at 100mg Test Cyp + HCG

Lifts (lbs):
Squat 315x5
Bench 325x1
Deadlift 440x1
Overhead Press 190x1

Goal (8 weeks from now):
98kg or 215lbs
14% BF and minimum muscle loss

Blast Protocol (per week):
210mg Test Cyp (administered daily... just bumped up trt dose by double)
87.5mg NPP (administered EOD)
Exemestane or Aromasin 6.25mg ever 3 days

2 weeks in:
No loss of strength, maybe even stronger
Weight at 103.2kg or 227.5lbs
Consuming 2,500 calories per day

Questions:
1) My weight hasn't dropped much, but I can tell on my weight belt I am slimming down. What is realistic amount of weight linked to water retention from increasing the anabolics?

2) I am constantly exhausted. I am waking up multiple times every night. I am also needing naps once or twice a day. I might be overtrained. Currently deloading. Could this be linked to the blast or calorie deficit?

3) Any advice?

Oh man, then tiredness and waking up at night is brutal. I didn't think only 90mg of npp would do that.

My doc had me taking 1/4 an aromasin (6.25mg,) every 3 days when I was on 100mg Test + hcg as trt.

Eventually the aromasin wasn't needed and I stopped it, but my bloods were showing my e2 was at the mid to high range of normal. I figured since I am essentially tripling my AAS by increasing my test to 210mg and adding 90mg of NPP adding back in a small amount of aromasin would be a good idea.

Going to stop the aromasin and possibly the npp as well

I called it off stopping both the npp and aromasin.

My bloods are back to normal now but still fighting fatigue. It has improved somewhat.

What do you mean your bloods are back to normal? Were they abnormal?

The doses you are talking about should not be causing you all of these issues.

 

[Rido]

I called it off stopping both the npp and aromasin.

My bloods are back to normal now but still fighting fatigue. It has improved somewhat.

Sounds like it is food intake

 

[TRT_Training_Hard]

This is the most important thing for a guy at 20%, but you told us almost nothing. Could you please elaborate? What are you eating? Are you tracking?

Sure and thanks for the help.

I am tracking my calories always. I used to be 300lbs of pure fat ass and dieted down to 170lbs years ago... Been tracking ever since.

6am (Pre BJJ) - Cream of rice with blueberries and whey isolate
370 calories and 40g protein

7am BJJ

8:15am - whey isolate
150 calories and 35g protein

9am - 5 eggs and 2 toast, fish oils, creatine, vitamin d and k, multi vit
550 calories and 40g protein

12pm/1pm - Chicken breast/beef fillet and rice (I don't eat enough veg)
450 calories and 50g protein

4pm - 2 Toast and Bresaola/Jerky
250 calories and 28g protein

6:30pm - Cream of Rice
175 calories

7pm Weights

8:30pm - Whey isolate
35g protein and 150 calories

9pm - Low Fat Oven Fries and Chicken Breast/Lean Beef
500 calories and 50g protein

11pm - Cottage cheese Or similar
200 calories and 40g protein

2500 calories
235 to 250g Protein
Fats maybe a bit on the low side?
* Please note on days with just 1 session (BJJ or Lifting) I eat the same.
* One day a week I also eat an addition 500 calories or so.

Good to hear. When did you stop and when did you start feeling better?

I remember it took me around 2 months to start feeling back to normal after a mini tren ace run.

I stopped on 01 November. So approx 6 weeks ago. Sleep quality still isn't great, but not as bad.

I have also had a deload week and 2 weeks off (1 week ill and 1 week work trip) during this 6 week period.

What do you mean your bloods are back to normal? Were they abnormal?

The doses you are talking about should not be causing you all of these issues.

Apologies for not being clear, I meant my elevated test etc is now back to my normal TRT levels with 100mg a week (top of normal range).

In the last week I have increased my Test C from 100mg TRT dose to 200mg a week. I am waiting to see if my fatigue etc improves

Thank you all for the help!

 

[TRT_Training_Hard]

Sounds like it is food intake

Apologies my earlier response had typos. I reported it for deletion.

You think I am under eating and this is causing the issues?

With the amount I train and a calorie intake of approx 2500, I would expect my BF to be dropping off more.

I welcome people thoughts on this.

This is also why I think it's best to get to 98kg and try to just maintain that weight and physique long term. Training and cutting seems really tough in my early 40s.

 

[Rido]

Apologies my earlier response had typos. I reported it for deletion.

You think I am under eating and this is causing the issues?

With the amount I train and a calorie intake of approx 2500, I would expect my BF to be dropping off more.

I welcome people thoughts on this.

This is also why I think it's best to get to 98kg and try to just maintain that weight and physique long term. Training and cutting seems really tough in my early 40s.

how long have you been at 2500? Recomping is still hard. Your body is still having to mobilize fat and conserve energy. Maybe some supplements that can promote fat breakdown? Carnitine?

 

[TRT_Training_Hard]

how long have you been at 2500? Recomping is still hard. Your body is still having to mobilize fat and conserve energy. Maybe some supplements that can promote fat breakdown? Carnitine?

Quite a long time at 2500, several months nature least.

I was thinking tbol or hgh. I haven't researched carnitine and it's potential risks/sides.

 

[Rido]

Quite a long time at 2500, several months nature least.

I was thinking tbol or hgh. I haven't researched carnitine and it's potential risks/sides.

Carnitine is very safe and mild. Hgh would be a good combo.

But yes. I think it's your diet. Sometimes you need a break.

 

[malfeasance]

fatigue - 7 a.m. workout, 7 p.m. workout

Could it be that you just need a rest?

 

[TRT_Training_Hard]

Carnitine is very safe and mild. Hgh would be a good combo.

But yes. I think it's your diet. Sometimes you need a break

I took a 3 week break which included 1 week deload, 1 week flu and 1 week travelling for business.

fatigue - 7 a.m. workout, 7 p.m. workout

Could it be that you just need a rest?

Shouldn't the 3 week break have been enough? I don't do doubles everyday. Maybe 2 to 3 times a week.

 

[Rido]

I took a 3 week break which included 1 week deload, 1 week flu and 1 week travelling for business.

Shouldn't the 3 week break have been enough? I don't do doubles everyday. Maybe 2 to 3 times a week.

I mean. A break from dieting. Go isocaloric for a month imo. 3500 calories?

 

[malfeasance]

I mean. A break from dieting. Go isocaloric for a month imo. 3500 calories?

He's 20% body fat, self estimated. His weight has not been dropping. He did note his belt got a little looser, which is the only good sign here. We are two months, about 9 weeks, from starting his recomposition. Frankly, at 20% body fat, he ought to have been able to lose about 15-18 pounds in that much time without too much effort.

That's why I hate "recomp" - for most folks, especially if it is not one's first cycle, it just means no real goal, no real discipline and no real progress.