Reconstitution of QSC NAD+

[ooohyeah]

Firstly, I realize that I misspoke earlier -- I used 8.4% sodium bicarb, not hydroxide. This Sigma-Aldrich doc linked below states that solutions can be made from either.

In any event, it seems that this stuff doesn't have much of any shelf life once reconstituted. You'd need to reconstitute it as needed, which is maybe why there's such a relatively small amount in each vial -- pretty much one healthy dose.

I later got some NAD+ raw from QSC, and saw almost the exact same pH when I put it into solution. I just don't think they buffered the lyophilizate at all, and probably didn't realize that they needed to.

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/deepweb/assets/sigmaaldrich/product/documents/668/557/n8285pis.pdf

Thanks. This is helpful.

 

[rollinrod]

Firstly, I realize that I misspoke earlier -- I used 8.4% sodium bicarb, not hydroxide. This Sigma-Aldrich doc linked below states that solutions can be made from either.

In any event, it seems that this stuff doesn't have much of any shelf life once reconstituted. You'd need to reconstitute it as needed, which is maybe why there's such a relatively small amount in each vial -- pretty much one healthy dose.

I later got some NAD+ raw from QSC, and saw almost the exact same pH when I put it into solution. I just don't think they buffered the lyophilizate at all, and probably didn't realize that they needed to.

https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/deepweb/assets/sigmaaldrich/product/documents/668/557/n8285pis.pdf

Did you make your own sodium bicarb solution to buffer with?

 

[TessaM]

FTR I'm also now seeing people report the same problem with CA's NAD+. Probably all comes from the same raws factory. I have some coming so will update when I know for sure.

 

[AlistairASP]

Thank you for raising this topic and concern. I am planning to order NAD++ in the near future. I have experience preparing mixtures of ascorbic acid, glutathione, and tranexamic acid.

Ascorbic acid always causes a painful IV injection if I don't adjust the pH to about 6. For adjustment, I use a strong base, NaOH, at a 4M concentration. Fortunately, glutathione (GSH) can tolerate and survive after being treated with a strong base. I just wanted to share this.

Thank you again for sharing with us.

 

[clearheaded]

remember its possible changing PH too much may effect NAD as no longer "reduced"?? same goes for vitamin C might loose any benefits...

 

[gburdell]

remember its possible changing PH too much may effect NAD as no longer "reduced"?? same goes for vitamin C might loose any benefits...

True. I don't have anything at my fingertips to cite, but remembering the studies and info I've read, reconstituting it and leaving it very acidic causes it to break down quickly. Buffering to closer to neutral, but still acidic, keeps it stable, and it's still efficacious.

It seems to me that there's a couple of things going on. With QSC and others packaging it as a lyophilizate in a vial, they're implying that it's to be used like a peptide -- reconstitute and inject SC or IM -- that's obviously not the case. It needs to be buffered. I don't know enough about this stuff to say, but I'd think that they could/should have buffered it before freeze drying.

Also, I notice when reading up online about NAD+ treatments at clinics that while some are offering product to administer at home, most of it is offered as a in-clinic infusion, basically taken with an IV bag of solution. Maybe this is for the same reason -- I'd think that 100mg of what we're reconstituting taken with 500ml or 1000ml of saline or some buffered IV solution would alleviate the issues we're seeing, and maybe that's why it's done. @AlistairASP -- thoughts?

​

 

[gburdell]

Did you make your own sodium bicarb solution to buffer with?

I did not, I had a bottle of medical grade 8.4% -- but I wouldn't blink at making my own, seems very straightforward.

 

[jayteelif87]

I did not, I had a bottle of medical grade 8.4% -- but I wouldn't blink at making my own, seems very straightforward.

Also readily available from a few sources: Sodium Bicarbonate 4.2% and 8.4% for Injection

Thats where I got mine, and worked like a charm

 

[AlistairASP]

True. I don't have anything at my fingertips to cite, but remembering the studies and info I've read, reconstituting it and leaving it very acidic causes it to break down quickly. Buffering to closer to neutral, but still acidic, keeps it stable, and it's still efficacious.

It seems to me that there's a couple of things going on. With QSC and others packaging it as a lyophilizate in a vial, they're implying that it's to be used like a peptide -- reconstitute and inject SC or IM -- that's obviously not the case. It needs to be buffered. I don't know enough about this stuff to say, but I'd think that they could/should have buffered it before freeze drying.

Also, I notice when reading up online about NAD+ treatments at clinics that while some are offering product to administer at home, most of it is offered as a in-clinic infusion, basically taken with an IV bag of solution. Maybe this is for the same reason -- I'd think that 100mg of what we're reconstituting taken with 500ml or 1000ml of saline or some buffered IV solution would alleviate the issues we're seeing, and maybe that's why it's done. @AlistairASP -- thoughts?

​

I consulted a friend who is a doctor about the NAD+ injection protocol, and here is what I learned:

Concentration: 1 mg of NAD+ per 1 ml of solution

Dose: 250 - 500 mg/week

Dripping time: Administer 250 mg of NAD+ over 1 - 1.5 hours. (Avoid administering too quickly due to the risk of adverse effects such as dizziness.)

Regarding the source of NAD+, there were no specific details provided. Information on buffering and another ingredient used is also unknown.

Based on these details, I speculate that the NAD+ source likely isn’t pre-buffered because it's intended to be diluted in a significant volume of water during administration.

In my opinion, administering IV injection with 500 ml over an hour seems quite lengthy and impractical for my needs. I typically use a syringe and butterfly needle, administering 20 ml over 25 minutes.

Moving forward, I'm considering buffering NAD+ with phosphate or hydrogen phosphate to decrease the injection volume. However, I'm uncertain about the potential adverse effects of reducing the injection time. More research or consultation might be necessary to understand the implications better.

 

[Mickey23]

I think you could apply this to their Glutathione as well. I haven't tested it with a strip but it has given me the same reaction.

 

[AlistairASP]

I think you could apply this to their Glutathione as well. I haven't tested it with a strip but it has given me the same reaction.

My gluta and vit C mix got pH around 2-3. I need NaOH to adjust pH to 6. The adverse effect of injection pain is almost disappeared.

 

[Mickey23]

My gluta and vit C mix got pH around 2-3. I need NaOH to adjust pH to 6. The adverse effect of injection pain is almost disappeared.

Perfect, that is what I was hoping to hear from someone!

Now if I could just find this solution in stock somewhere....

 

[Matts4313]

How do you like the product itself?

Have we settled on mixing it with both BAC and a buffer solution as well? Or just the buffer solution?

 

[gburdell]

Meh, I never totally got around the dosing issues, which were a pain. Mixing with BAC and buffer worked for me as far as neutralizing it.

It's been awhile since I looked at it, but I believe the protocol was 100mg/day, but I need to do some more looking at it. The clinics that push this stuff all do infusions, likely of a greater amount (4-500mg), but they're doing that over like an hour. So I think speed of injection is also an issue, i.e. even doing IM, you'd want to push this slowly.

@Matts4313, what protocol/dosing plan are you looking at? Would love to get your thoughts and opinion of the stuff. Maybe it'll be enough for me to look at it again.

Separate but related, I had a vial of my QSC 140mg NAD+ tested by Jano, see this link to Jano's site, and a copy of the test below. Coming in at 112.64mg, it's about 20% underdosed. If I finish my last few vials, I'll just take each as one dose.

I ended up buying 50g of NAD+ raw along the way, and when dissolved in BAC, it came out to the same ~2.3pH. If I get a chance to take another look, I'll just mix up a few days worth and buffer it.

Janoshik test results on Jano's site: Janoshik Analytical

 

[Night_Owl]

I think you could apply this to their Glutathione as well. I haven't tested it with a strip but it has given me the same reaction.

Check this out:

CN101745095B - Composition of reduced glutathione and sodium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate - Google Patents

The invention relates to a composition of reduced glutathione and sodium carbonate or sodium bicarbonate, which is used for medical injection drugs. The invention also discloses that in the composition of the reduced glutathione and the sodium carbonate or the sodium bicarbonate, the weight...

patents.google.com

 

[Matts4313]

@Matts4313, what protocol/dosing plan are you looking at? Would love to get your thoughts and opinion of the stuff. Maybe it'll be enough for me to look at it again.

I found a dosing schedule that is:

25 MG 2x/wk Week 1-2

50MG 2x/wk week 3-4

Then you go to 100MG 2x a week, followed by 3x a week based on your bodies response.

Honestly I got a little frustrated looking through all the reviews of various peptides. I would find one like this, or CJC1295, that the benefits sound outstanding, the research looks terrific; but when you search for reviews, they are all basically "this did nothing, do not buy".

I am enamored with the GL peptides (Tirzepatide), but it feels like most others compounds perhaps dont have as profound impact?

I am still learning, but I am curious if there even is a quality peptide stack.

 

[ooohyeah]

I found a dosing schedule that is:

25 MG 2x/wk Week 1-2

50MG 2x/wk week 3-4

Then you go to 100MG 2x a week, followed by 3x a week based on your bodies response.

Honestly I got a little frustrated looking through all the reviews of various peptides. I would find one like this, or CJC1295, that the benefits sound outstanding, the research looks terrific; but when you search for reviews, they are all basically "this did nothing, do not buy".

I am enamored with the GL peptides (Tirzepatide), but it feels like most others compounds perhaps dont have as profound impact?

I am still learning, but I am curious if there even is a quality peptide stack.

It is true that it can be discouraging reading people's experiences, however, everyone's body is different, and everyone's body's needs are different. Same with nootropics and even vitamins/supplements. What works for some, does nothing for someone else.

Having said that, peptides like CJC1295 are a very long term thing. The effects are subtle and likely unnoticeable for a long while; they have to be run for a year or so to get results. With that one in particular, you can't really go by people's experiences, unless they got labs done.

With NAD+ and its family, even with proper quality and dosing, if your body isn't deficient, you won't notice much. Usually, the older you are, the more you can feel a difference, but some are deficient at younger ages. At least that's how I understand it.

 

[Mickey23]

It is true that it can be discouraging reading people's experiences, however, everyone's body is different, and everyone's body's needs are different. Same with nootropics and even vitamins/supplements. What works for some, does nothing for someone else.

Having said that, peptides like CJC1295 are a very long term thing. The effects are subtle and likely unnoticeable for a long while; they have to be run for a year or so to get results. With that one in particular, you can't really go by people's experiences, unless they got labs done.

With NAD+ and its family, even with proper quality and dosing, if your body isn't deficient, you won't notice much. Usually, the older you are, the more you can feel a difference, but some are deficient at younger ages. At least that's how I understand it.

Well said. Other than BPC-157/TB500, I look at almost all peptides as supplements for longevity.

 

[WeaponPharma]

An incredibly insightful and generous thread here - thank you to all for sharing these insights