recovery help

[diesel85]

suggestions:
200mg prop eod 9 weeks
450mg/wk EQ 8 weeks
60mg oral winny ed, weeks 5-9

nuts smaller than usual.

Hcg? how much/how often, start when?
clomid or nolva or both? how much/how often, start when?

thanks

 

[Neodavid]

See the "pct pct pct" thread.

See Einstein's URL for a complete recovery schedule, as well as scientific research done to back it up.

I read it, it's convincing, especially this part:

Disparate effect of clomiphene and tamoxifen on pituitary gonadotropin release in vitro.

Adashi EY, Hsueh AJ, Bambino TH, Yen SS.

The direct effects of clomiphene citrate (Clomid), tamoxifen, and estradiol (E2) on the gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)-stimulated release of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) were studied in cultured anterior pituitary cells obtained from adult ovariectomized rats. Treatment of pituitary cells with Clomid or enclomid (10(-8) M) in vitro for 2 days resulted in a marked sensitization of the gonadotroph to GnRH as reflected by a 6.5-fold decrease in the ED50 of GnRH in terms of LH release from 2.2 x 10(-9) M in untreated cells to 3.6 x 10(-10) M. Treatment with E2 or Clomid also increased the sensitivity of the gonadotroph to GnRH in terms of FSH release by 4.3- and 3.3-fold respectively. Tamoxifen, a related antiestrogen, comparable to Clomid in terms of its ability to compete with E2 for pituitary estrogen receptors, was without effect on the GnRH-stimulated LH release at a concentration of 10(-7) M. Furthermore, tamoxifen, unlike Clomid, caused an apparent but not statistically significant inhibition of the sensitizing effect of E2 on the GnRH-stimulated release of LH. Our findings suggest that Clomid and its Enclomid isomer, unlike tamoxifen, exert a direct estrogenic rather than an antiestrogenic effect on cultured pituitary cells by enhancing the GnRH-stimulated release of gonadotropin.

suggestions:
200mg prop eod 9 weeks
450mg/wk EQ 8 weeks
60mg oral winny ed, weeks 5-9

nuts smaller than usual.

Hcg? how much/how often, start when?
clomid or nolva or both? how much/how often, start when?

thanks

 

[SikFuk!]

See the "pct pct pct" thread.

See Einstein's URL for a complete recovery schedule, as well as scientific research done to back it up.

I read it, it's convincing, especially this part:

Disparate effect of clomiphene and tamoxifen on pituitary gonadotropin release in vitro.

Adashi EY, Hsueh AJ, Bambino TH, Yen SS.

The direct effects of clomiphene citrate (Clomid), tamoxifen, and estradiol (E2) on the gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH)-stimulated release of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH) were studied in cultured anterior pituitary cells obtained from adult ovariectomized rats. Treatment of pituitary cells with Clomid or enclomid (10(-8) M) in vitro for 2 days resulted in a marked sensitization of the gonadotroph to GnRH as reflected by a 6.5-fold decrease in the ED50 of GnRH in terms of LH release from 2.2 x 10(-9) M in untreated cells to 3.6 x 10(-10) M. Treatment with E2 or Clomid also increased the sensitivity of the gonadotroph to GnRH in terms of FSH release by 4.3- and 3.3-fold respectively. Tamoxifen, a related antiestrogen, comparable to Clomid in terms of its ability to compete with E2 for pituitary estrogen receptors, was without effect on the GnRH-stimulated LH release at a concentration of 10(-7) M. Furthermore, tamoxifen, unlike Clomid, caused an apparent but not statistically significant inhibition of the sensitizing effect of E2 on the GnRH-stimulated release of LH. Our findings suggest that Clomid and its Enclomid isomer, unlike tamoxifen, exert a direct estrogenic rather than an antiestrogenic effect on cultured pituitary cells by enhancing the GnRH-stimulated release of gonadotropin.

Thats all good and all but in vitro (outside the body) studies are a far cry from In vivo (inside the body) studies... just b/c they find these results here doesn't mean this is what normally happens in the body...but it does look interesting...but the tamoxifen dose is really low in these studies, 10^-7 M. I don't know what the molecular weight is of tamoxifen (M=Molar=molecular weight in grams/1liter) I would expect the dose you would take for a pct would have an impact, I doubt you would end up with only .0000001 grams/liter of tamoxifen in your system...but I could be wrong...Either way, studies like this should be taken wearily, what you should be after is clinical trials or in vivo studies....I haven't looked at the site or read the study though...just reaing the abstract only gives a basic idea of what they did

Just my two cents

 

[Neodavid]

No argument on your logic, I probably made a mistake posting that out of context. Pheedno had quite the extensive research, paperwork, and evidence all in one place, including that magic in vivo stuff.

Mostly I appreciate the dose levels and details on clomid. I really don't feel like permanently supressing my nut cycle. (grin)

Thats all good and all but in vitro (outside the body) studies are a far cry from In vivo (inside the body) studies... just b/c they find these results here doesn't mean this is what normally happens in the body...but it does look interesting...but the tamoxifen dose is really low in these studies, 10^-7 M. I don't know what the molecular weight is of tamoxifen (M=Molar=molecular weight in grams/1liter) I would expect the dose you would take for a pct would have an impact, I doubt you would end up with only .0000001 grams/liter of tamoxifen in your system...but I could be wrong...Either way, studies like this should be taken wearily, what you should be after is clinical trials or in vivo studies....I haven't looked at the site or read the study though...just reaing the abstract only gives a basic idea of what they did

Just my two cents