Religion and Politics

[CyniQ]

That is speciation and not evolution. I dont, and I dont think CyniQ, doubts that speciation does occur. But that is a far cry from evolutionary theory. Sure, a certain type of bird, over time, changes and becomes a different version of....a bird. The organism is no more complex than the previous version, it is simply different. Evolution states that the organism becomes more complex. When has a genetic mutation (addition of genetic information) yielded a viable organism? It hasnt. Genetic additions cause "broken" organisms, such as what occurs with Downs Syndrome.

What I believe CyniQ to be asking is, when did the previously mentioned bird become a dog or human or something other than a bird?

Thank you for putting it so eloquently Mr. Smith.

 

[swing]

What you describe does not even remotely resemble evolution as the theory exists today. Okay, maybe it "remotely" resembles it. If I'm bigger than you, and I kill you. You can no longer reproduce. I, on the other hand, as the survivor of the battle, can reproduce all I want. Now all the babies will look like me and not you. That is hardly evolution. Mankind should be so lucky...

What was decribed previously is related to Darwin's "Theory of Natural Selection." What CyniQ is mentioning sounds as if it pertains to the concept of "Survival of the Fittest." This primarily is an elistist social view, base upon the gross manipulation of Darwin's principles. I could be mistaken, as it has been several years since I have studied this subject matter. Either way, I don't by his theory.

 

[CyniQ]

What was decribed previously is related to Darwin's "Theory of Natural Selection." What CyniQ is mentioning sounds as if it pertains to the concept of "Survival of the Fittest." This primarily is an elistist social view, base upon the gross manipulation of Darwin's principles. I could be mistaken, as it has been several years since I have studied this subject matter. Either way, I don't by his theory.

MY Theory???? I was merely reiterating Sensational's previous statement. Besides, the point is hardly refutable. If I kill you, you obviously cannot reproduce, and the babies will in fact look like me. That, is just as obviously, not evolution. Inconceivable! Sorry I was starting to remind myself of that guy from The Princess Bride.

 

[Sensational]

What you describe does not even remotely resemble evolution as the theory exists today. Okay, maybe it "remotely" resembles it. If I'm bigger than you, and I kill you. You can no longer reproduce. I, on the other hand, as the survivor of the battle, can reproduce all I want. Now all the babies will look like me and not you. That is hardly evolution. Mankind should be so lucky...

That exactly is evolution as it is understood today. It is the original premise of evolution. I don't understand what you are debating me about, the basic level of evolution is survival of the fittest. Now, I think you are saying that it doesn't resemble man turning from a fish into a human...and I don't believe that either. I am guessing that you don't believe that everybody and every species descended from a single ancestor...I don't believe that either. But that doesn't mean that evolution on a much smaller scale doesn't happen~Sensational

 

[Sensational]

That is speciation and not evolution. I dont, and I dont think CyniQ, doubts that speciation does occur. But that is a far cry from evolutionary theory. Sure, a certain type of bird, over time, changes and becomes a different version of....a bird. The organism is no more complex than the previous version, it is simply different. Evolution states that the organism becomes more complex. When has a genetic mutation (addition of genetic information) yielded a viable organism? It hasnt. Genetic additions cause "broken" organisms, such as what occurs with Downs Syndrome.

What I believe CyniQ to be asking is, when did the previously mentioned bird become a dog or human or something other than a bird?

It never has, and I don't believe that evolution is the root of all life. Speciation does occur, and the premise of the theory of evolution (which has only proven speciation like BS said) is based on many mutations over time.

I do have to dispute that mutations just produce down syndrome. We both know BS that there are good and bad mutations~Sensational

 

[Bob Smith]

It never has, and I don't believe that evolution is the root of all life. Speciation does occur, and the premise of the theory of evolution (which has only proven speciation like BS said) is based on many mutations over time.

I do have to dispute that mutations just produce down syndrome. We both know BS that there are good and bad mutations~Sensational

I think its a huge leap for someone to conclude evolution based on speciation.

 

[CyniQ]

I think its a huge leap for someone to conclude evolution based on speciation.

I agree. And Sens: Would you care to name a "good" genetic mutation?

 

[Sensational]

I think its a huge leap for someone to conclude evolution based on speciation.

It is a huge leap, but it is one of the basic principles on the THEORY of evolution.

 

[Sensational]

I think I am not being clear. I don't believe in the theory of evolution in that it is not the root of all diversity. But I do know that evolution does happen on a certain level. That is the point I was trying to make all along.

I think that some scientists are trying to disprove God and Creation so much that they will latch on to any theory that contradicts creation and claim it as gospel.....

 

[Grizzly]

And Grizz, I beleive that the free will and God's plan are not mutually exclusive. God has a plan for us...whether or not we follow it is our choice and thus we have free will.
~Sensational

That's why I made the addendum that the plan eliminates freewill only if God manipulates the world to achieve his plan. As Cyniq said, people latch onto numerous things to make themselves feel better...ahem, religion. You get sayings like, "God doesn't give you more than you can handle" or, when someone dies, "it's not ours to question god's plan. He decides when it's your time and that's that."

Both of those indicate a meddlesome deity. If god is handing you everything in your life, then you don't have freewill. If god decides when you die, then you don't have freewill.

Tarrot cards, astrology, divination of any sort. If you believe in any of these, then you can't believe in free will.

Soul mates, "meant to be together"; you can't have freewill.

Any predetermined actions negate freewill entirely and for all people.

 

[Grizzly]

Furthermore(I just thought of this), if there is a God who meddles in the affairs of the world and determines at what time and by what method you will die, then, not only is there no free will, but he is an evil deity as he has individual lives terminated by fire, drowning, serial killers, beatings, massive anal rapes, stabbings and any other number of terrible ways to die. What a nice God you have there people.

 

[CyniQ]

Furthermore(I just thought of this), if there is a God who meddles in the affairs of the world and determines at what time and by what method you will die, then, not only is there no free will, but he is an evil deity as he has individual lives terminated by fire, drowning, serial killers, beatings, massive anal rapes, stabbings and any other number of terrible ways to die. What a nice God you have there people.

That's exactly right. Couldn't have said it better myself. That's why I have absolutely no respect for the "Jerry Falwell" types. For eons religious leaders have held God over our heads as a means for THEM to maintain control. THEY know what God wants, not you. They are after all the religious "leaders". Did you know that the Catholic church used to burn people at the stake for owning a personal copy of the bible in their own language? Does that make any sense? God provided the bible for the benefit of mankind. It has been bastardized and corrupted by churches and religious leaders for THEIR benefit. If they know what God wants and you don't... They control you. If you're interested in pleasing God. Which brings me to my point. The idea that God "takes" people when they die is a two edged sword. On the one hand it gives the persons death some meaning, some importance, and makes the mourners feel warm and fuzzy (kind of sick if you ask me). On the other hand it provides a means of control for the clergy. Just like hell. FEAR.