Results today plus story ...

[Roms]

Hello,

I am 26 years old and after 1 and only cycle of test and dian I basically lost my libido.I tried 1 pct then waited 1 month then another pct with more hcg this time,i felt great during 2 weeks, my libido was back but after I stoped the hcg and finished with nolva(I always followed the good protocoles),I was back to my terrible state.
After all I red I believe I had a low testosterone level before this cycle but I always had a good libido ...I feel like I have never recover from this cycle and that I can t recover because something is wrong.
I live in Phuket(Thailand) and there is no endo here.
I have done a lot of reserche but i definitely need help,so I hope that somebody will hear me.


2 weeks ago I had this tested:

T Test : 2.8 ng/ml (2.7-17.3)
SHBG : 23.1 nmol/L (13-71)
Albumin : 5.2 g/dl (3.4-4.8)
Free Test : 5.98 ng/dl
Bio Test : 168 ng/dl

At this point I have all the symptomes off low testosterone and especially no libido.

So I started TRTto see how it goes,1 injection a week and hcg 250iu*2, and after 10 days on it I feel a little bit better but I still have no libido.

This time i get a lot more test done once on trt :

T Test : 9 ng/ml (2.7-17.3)
LH: 0.5 mIU/ml (0.8-7.6)
FSH: 0.4 mIU/ml (0.7-11.1)
Estradiol:45 pg/ml (<56)
Prolactin: 8.2 ng/ml (2.5-17)
Cortisol morning :13.2 ug/dl (5-25)
Free T3 : 2.03 pg/ml (2.5-4.4)
Free T4: 0.97 ng/dl (0.7-1.48)
TSH : 0.557 uU/ml (0.35-4.94)

We can see that my T Test has raised a lot due to the TRT but there is something wrong with the LH and FSH very low I think.Free T3 seems low too ...
What do you guys think about it ?
Thanks a lot for your help.

 

[JanSz]

Hello,

I am 26 years old and after 1 and only cycle of test and dian I basically lost my libido.I tried 1 pct then waited 1 month then another pct with more hcg this time,i felt great during 2 weeks, my libido was back but after I stoped the hcg and finished with nolva(I always followed the good protocoles),I was back to my terrible state.
After all I red I believe I had a low testosterone level before this cycle but I always had a good libido ...I feel like I have never recover from this cycle and that I can t recover because something is wrong.
I live in Phuket(Thailand) and there is no endo here.
I have done a lot of reserche but i definitely need help,so I hope that somebody will hear me.


2 weeks ago I had this tested:

T Test : 2.8 ng/ml (2.7-17.3)
SHBG : 23.1 nmol/L (13-71)
Albumin : 5.2 g/dl (3.4-4.8)
Free Test : 5.98 ng/dl
Bio Test : 168 ng/dl

At this point I have all the symptomes off low testosterone and especially no libido.

So I started TRTto see how it goes,1 injection a week and hcg 250iu*2, and after 10 days on it I feel a little bit better but I still have no libido.

This time i get a lot more test done once on trt :

T Test : 9 ng/ml (2.7-17.3)
LH: 0.5 mIU/ml (0.8-7.6)
FSH: 0.4 mIU/ml (0.7-11.1)
Estradiol:45 pg/ml (<56)
Prolactin: 8.2 ng/ml (2.5-17)
Cortisol morning :13.2 ug/dl (5-25)
Free T3 : 2.03 pg/ml (2.5-4.4)
Free T4: 0.97 ng/dl (0.7-1.48)
TSH : 0.557 uU/ml (0.35-4.94)

We can see that my T Test has raised a lot due to the TRT but there is something wrong with the LH and FSH very low I think.Free T3 seems low too ...
What do you guys think about it ?
Thanks a lot for your help.

============================================================
You have a low FreeT3 and FreeT4, possibly good Cortisol.
Get Armour Thyroid, go (slowly) up to about 4 grains, retest in 3-4 months, adjust dose so your FreeT3 is almost at the top of range. Add Synthroid (if required), try to be in the middle of range with FreeT4.
All the time have with you Cortef (5mg/pill), use up to 20mg/day if need.
Monitor body temperature and pulse. Slow down and wait with Armour increases if resting pulse over 80 or body temperature over 37C.
========================================================================
Assuming that you tried restart of ACTH axis twice and failed.
You may want to try another way.
For three months do daily shots of
150iuHCG and 75iuHMG
if you have the money, use more of HMG.
Before you start this, talk to PrimordialPerformance get more details from him.

==========================================================================

You may want to do more testing to figure out what the rest of your body is doing.
Here is a list.
Once/year is enough plus more concentrated tests in between.
------------------------------
0 iodine
1 CBC w/ diff
2 Calcium
3 Carbon dioxide
4 Chloride
5 Copper, serum
6 Ferritin
7 Magnesium
8 Potasium
9 Selenium
10 Sodium
11 Zinc
12 Alkaline phosphase
13 ALT
14 AST
15 BUN/creatinine ratio
16 Creatinine
17 Globulin, calculated
18 Protein Total
19 Urea nitrogen
20 Bilirubin, Total
21 Bilirubin, Direct
22 EGFR non afr american
23 RPR W/Titer & Conf RFX RPR screen
24 C-reactive protein CRP
25 Fibrinogen
26 Hematocrit
27 Hemoglobin A1C
28 Homocysteine, cardio
29 Lipoprotein (A) Lp(A)
30 Folate, Serum
31 Folate, Serum
32 Cholesterol, Total
33 HDL cholesterol
34 cholesterol/HDL ratio
35 LDL chol, calculated
36 Triglycirides
37 VLDL
38 Vitamin A
39 Vitamin B12, serum
40 Vitamin D, panel
43 T3 Free
44 T3 uptake
45 T3,Total
46 T4,Free
47 T4,Total
48 TSH
49 Glucose, fasting
50 Insuline, serum
51 PSA, Total
52 PSA, %, free
53 IGF Binding protein-3
54 IGF-1
55 Aldosterone
56 Cortisol AM/PM
57 DHEA sulfate
58 Prolactin
59 FSH
60 LH
61 Progesterone
62 Pregnenolone
63 Estradiol, Bioavailable
64 Estradiol, Free
65 Estradiol, Fractionated, serum
66 Estradiol, Ultra-sensitive (is part of fractionated)
67 Estrone,serum (is part of fractionated)
68 Estrogens, Total, Serum
69 Testosterone, Free, Bio/Total (LC/MS/MS)
70 Testosterone Total (included in T panel)
71 Testosterone Free(included in T panel)
72 Testosterone Bioavailable(included in T panel)
73 SHBG(included in T panel)
74 Albumin, serum(included in T panel)
75 Dihydrotestosterone DHT

 

[Roms]

Ok,

Thanks a lot for your help.
Do I still need to stay on trt knowing now that the low thyroids and high estrogen may have been the problem ?

Apparently I might need to start arimidex as well...

 

[JanSz]

Ok,

Thanks a lot for your help.
Do I still need to stay on trt knowing now that the low thyroids and high estrogen may have been the problem ?

Apparently I might need to start arimidex as well...

Definitely you should drop steroids.
Reread my first post.
If you want you can try another restart using HCG+HMG
You should not supplement with testosterone while trying to restart.
If your restart is succesful, you do not use external testosterone.
If you are not succesful then you supplement with T & HCG, you take enough Testosterone until your FreeT and BAT are in the top range.
Blood testing is required to adjust T dose.
Depending on routine of T injections you size of hcg/shot may vary.
Best routines E2D, second best E3D or twice weekly.
I use T + hcg on the same day, subq around navel, E3D.
Weekly shots are usually not frequent enough.
I use 31ga needle for both T & hcg.

 

[Roms]

Definitely you should drop steroids.
Reread my first post.
If you want you can try another restart using HCG+HMG
You should not supplement with testosterone while trying to restart.
If your restart is succesful, you do not use external testosterone.
If you are not succesful then you supplement with T & HCG, you take enough Testosterone until your FreeT and BAT are in the top range.
Blood testing is required to adjust T dose.
Depending on routine of T injections you size of hcg/shot may vary.
Best routines E2D, second best E3D or twice weekly.
I use T + hcg on the same day, subq around navel, E3D.
Weekly shots are usually not frequent enough.
I use 31ga needle for both T & hcg.

So you are saying that I should try to restart even after 2 pcts already (1 month nolva hcg then 1 month beak then 1 month again of nolva and hcg where I felt better during it,but back to no where after it ) with this protocol I never heard about but looks pretty good.No use of either nolva or clomid in this protocol ? Why do you think that I could restart knowing that 2 pcts failed already ?

Thanks a lot for you help.I really appreciate.

 

[JustOne]

Your E2 is high.

 

[Roms]

1/It seems that taking care of the thyroids is important buy doing an MRI of pituatary in my situation,in first then thyroids replacement therapie for life ...


2/I might not need to be on TRT but trying to recover once again with a new pct of clomid (never tried before) nolva and hcg.A lot of my problems may be due to the thyroids problem ...
High estrogen may decrease with the stop of trt plus start of pct.
Taking the risk to be back to a naturel low level of testosterone,but I guess I have to fix the thyroid problem first to know that.

 

[Prospero]

T Test : 9 ng/ml (2.7-17.3)
LH: 0.5 mIU/ml (0.8-7.6)
FSH: 0.4 mIU/ml (0.7-11.1)
Estradiol:45 pg/ml (<56)
Prolactin: 8.2 ng/ml (2.5-17)
Cortisol morning :13.2 ug/dl (5-25)
Free T3 : 2.03 pg/ml (2.5-4.4)
Free T4: 0.97 ng/dl (0.7-1.48)
TSH : 0.557 uU/ml (0.35-4.94)

We can see that my T Test has raised a lot due to the TRT but there is something wrong with the LH and FSH very low I think.Free T3 seems low too ...

LH and FSH as low because you are putting external T into your system. Thus, your body starts to downregulato the production of T. This is totally expected with TRT.

I'd try to get E2 down first, as that affects free T3.. Get E2 measured with sensitive method that gives a LOWER as well as upper reference limit.

 

[Roms]

LH and FSH as low because you are putting external T into your system. Thus, your body starts to downregulato the production of T. This is totally expected with TRT.

I'd try to get E2 down first, as that affects free T3.. Get E2 measured with sensitive method that gives a LOWER as well as upper reference limit.

Thank you very much for your comments.

It may suggest an issue with the pituitary but not a tumor because my prolactin is fine,is this correct ?


Can high estradiol be the the cause of no libido ?Is the use of arimidex usually temporary or is it to use for a long time ?

If i try for a third time a pct (this time with clomid too),do you think that the clomid and novaldex will be enough to reduce estradiol as well as helping me to restart my hpta fonctions ?Then I wouldn t need to use arimidex ?

 

[Prospero]

It may suggest an issue with the pituitary but not a tumor because my prolactin is fine,is this correct ?

No, the feedback loop of LH works just as it should. There is no "issue" in that, at all.

Can high estradiol be the the cause of no libido ?Is the use of arimidex usually temporary or is it to use for a long time ?

I expect to use it for the rest of my life, unless I find the REASON for the extra E2, and can fix that.

Nobody really knows what causes libido or lack of it. At least, getting E2 to proper value will only have positive effect, if anything, so it is a logical thing to do.

If i try for a third time a pct (this time with clomid too),do you think that the clomid and novaldex will be enough to reduce estradiol as well as helping me to restart my hpta fonctions ?Then I wouldn t need to use arimidex ?

I have no experience with those.

 

[zkt]

Since T, LH, FSH and TSH are all low. I would suspect he hypothalmus. If GRH is also low the problem might lie there.
E2 doesnt seem high enough to be responsible for the low T via the feedback mechanism. But who knows..
A combination of anti-aromatization drugs and hcg and/or hmg ( altho I have read that hmg is no better than hcg) is all that I know you could do. A large dose 1500iu hcg weekly for a few weeks might be better than many smaller doses. Arimidex is the most potent anti-E drug.
3,6,17-Androstenetrione might be substituted for Arimidex. Chrysin is also somewhat effective in lowering E. You might even give Dermacrine or Sustain a try.

 

[JanSz]

I expect to use it for the rest of my life, unless I find the REASON for the extra E2, and can fix that.

Would this logic be acceptable?

Excessive amount of Testostrone converts to E2,

therefore increases in T is balancing act
constraints are
E2 (ultra-sensitive)=(10-50)pg/mL
FreeT (160-250) pg/mL(QUEST)
BAT(???-575.0)ng/dL(Quest)

We try to be close to top range on each of the three without use of AI (if possible)

Another way of saing, let the E2 go up to 50, (not 30) before reducing T dose
First try to make SHBG adjustments
then attempt to reduce amount of external T (while trying to use maximum possible dose)
only if that is not reasonable (resonable= FreeT must be over 160)
start using AI
.
.