Reta/ Var for cutting 22% bf > 15%

[adrenalytic]

PEDs are not necessary to lose fat. TRT levels of testosterone (high normal) with a diet is all that is needed. Take more than that, and adding more compounds, is just going to lead to side effects and worsened BP / bloodwork if you’re much over 15% bf. Cutting is a mind fuck because you flatten out first so you actually look worse for the first weeks. But when you start to lean out more (youll still be flat most of the time) you will appear more muscular given the lower BF. We are ALL fatter than we think.

You forgot to add "with the exception of tren"

I kid (sorta).

 

[RockyP]

I’d just like to add that I’ve made all of these mistakes before and hope my comments can help others not do that (they prob won’t - the temptation to add PEDs is very strong). It took me a long time to realize that what everyone had always said was true. Gotta get lean / in shape first and then play with the drugs. It’s night and day difference in terms of efficacy and side effects. I’m currently leaner / in better shape than I’ve been in decades. Running stuff like Tren / Anadrol. Blood pressure is normal. Bloodwork totally
Norma other than low HDL. This would not be the case if I had high bf / was over eating, etc. high food, low cardio, and high gear don’t mix. When you’re in shape your body can handle / use the compounds far more effectively, and as you get super lean you can (in the short term) ramp dosages of things like orals etc for enhanced aesthetics and performance. There will never be any getting around the HDL obliteration but all the other metrics are controllable with your lifestyle and ancillaries. But using these compounds at higher bf levels is just pissing in the wind. More bloat. More aromatization. Worse lipids. Worse BP, etc

 

[jboogie83]

PEDs are not necessary to lose fat. TRT levels of testosterone (high normal) with a diet is all that is needed. Take more than that, and adding more compounds, is just going to lead to side effects and worsened BP / bloodwork if you’re much over 15% bf. Cutting is a mind fuck because you flatten out first so you actually look worse for the first weeks. But when you start to lean out more (youll still be flat most of the time) you will appear more muscular given the lower BF. We are ALL fatter than we think.

I'm very aware that PEDs aren't necessary for losing, I'm no stranger to that. I'm now realizing the trt will probably cover me in terms of lean mass protection (Var is unnecessary), but the Reta is helpful with my binge eating. It's also helping, in terms of recomp, how and where I'm losing fat (mostly midsection, which has always been a problem for me).

 

[RockyP]

I'm very aware that PEDs aren't necessary for losing, I'm no stranger to that. I'm now realizing the trt will probably cover me in terms of lean mass protection (Var is unnecessary), but the Reta is helpful with my binge eating. It's also helping, in terms of recomp, how and where I'm losing fat (mostly midsection, which has always been a problem for me).

Yea of course Reta / GLP-1 is critical. Life changing compounds.

 

[just some dude]

i know not everyone is like this but for me the more i got into peds the less i got into lifestyle, nutrition, and training. honestly if i could go back i would focus on optimization as a whole, yes that includes hormones but optimization, not abuse of the compound, as long as you respect these compounds, the doses, and everything thats a base under them, you’ll be good.

congrats on the progress brother, before you posted pics we all imagined something way different; with your current base it will be way easier / faster to get abs than you think if you just stay consistent

 

[RockyP]

i know not everyone is like this but for me the more i got into peds the less i got into lifestyle, nutrition, and training. honestly if i could go back i would focus on optimization as a whole, yes that includes hormones but optimization, not abuse of the compound, as long as you respect these compounds, the doses, and everything thats a base under them, you’ll be good.

congrats on the progress brother, before you posted pics we all imagined something way different; with your current base it will be way easier / faster to get abs than you think if you just stay consistent

This is one of the drawbacks. The PEDs are powerful and effective. They can become a crutch for some. What’s worse, when people start using them they attribute everything to the impact of PEDs. Great workout? Gotta be the drugs. Bad workout? Not enough drugs. People forget that the diet training and rest / recovery is still always the most important thing. I’ve proven this to myself by experimenting with preworkout orals in a deficit. I got better workouts the day after eating sushi and getting a good night sleep without using the orals compared to a depleted day while taking them.

 

[xrayphoton13]

the important stuff i remember about the book is can go below 1500 calories for aggresive cutting, no more than 4 or 6 weeks.

refeeds, refeeds, carb cycling.

what you need for cutting other than refeeds the book dosent tell you about; tracking avg weekly weight and calories.

weight must go down by 0.5-1% of total bw every week. it dosent matter if u eat 2500 calories for this or 1500 calories. you must achieve atleast this speed of weight loss and you're dropping maximum amount of fat possible with least muscle loss.

I forgot to mention the other tool I find extremely helpful for this is MacroFactor. You just log your weight and all your meals and it constantly adjusts each week to tell you your TDEE and how many calories to eat each day the next week to stay on track with your weight loss goals and speed. You can have your calories the same all week or budget them so you have some days with higher or lower calories, and you can pick macro percentages. It also logs all your micronutrients to make sure you get them all. It's like $80 a year but I've been using several years now and the combination of that, RFL, and tirzepatide got me from 300 lb fat ass to 160 lbs 10%bf in shape in like a year or so. I really was able to turn my life around with the tools that are readily available these days to anyone. And I did all that natty. Didn't find out until after that my natural test level was 235ng/dl so then I started trt

 

[jboogie83]

i know not everyone is like this but for me the more i got into peds the less i got into lifestyle, nutrition, and training. honestly if i could go back i would focus on optimization as a whole, yes that includes hormones but optimization, not abuse of the compound, as long as you respect these compounds, the doses, and everything thats a base under them, you’ll be good.

congrats on the progress brother, before you posted pics we all imagined something way different; with your current base it will be way easier / faster to get abs than you think if you just stay consistent

Yes, brother! I agree 100%.. I didn't even consider adding compounds until I became confident in my abilities around nutrition, training, and overall recovery. I definitely still go overboard and over train all the time, but I think that's just part of loving the gym.

 

[jboogie83]

I forgot to mention the other tool I find extremely helpful for this is MacroFactor. You just log your weight and all your meals and it constantly adjusts each week to tell you your TDEE and how many calories to eat each day the next week to stay on track with your weight loss goals and speed. You can have your calories the same all week or budget them so you have some days with higher or lower calories, and you can pick macro percentages. It also logs all your micronutrients to make sure you get them all. It's like $80 a year but I've been using several years now and the combination of that, RFL, and tirzepatide got me from 300 lb fat ass to 160 lbs 10%bf in shape in like a year or so. I really was able to turn my life around with the tools that are readily available these days to anyone. And I did all that natty. Didn't find out until after that my natural test level was 235ng/dl so then I started trt

That's some really amazing progress!

I track everything I eat, have done so for 3 years now. I've also prepped ALL meals during that period, minus a couple weekend days here and there. I'm a firm believer in tracking everything, but I also know that is really individual. My wife cannot track her food or she spirals and overeats.. I'm the opposite.

 

[dinfaralt]

I forgot to mention the other tool I find extremely helpful for this is MacroFactor. You just log your weight and all your meals and it constantly adjusts each week to tell you your TDEE and how many calories to eat each day the next week to stay on track with your weight loss goals and speed. You can have your calories the same all week or budget them so you have some days with higher or lower calories, and you can pick macro percentages. It also logs all your micronutrients to make sure you get them all. It's like $80 a year but I've been using several years now and the combination of that, RFL, and tirzepatide got me from 300 lb fat ass to 160 lbs 10%bf in shape in like a year or so. I really was able to turn my life around with the tools that are readily available these days to anyone. And I did all that natty. Didn't find out until after that my natural test level was 235ng/dl so then I started trt

i just use cronometer, it also has based on tdee from weight but my real tdee differs by few hundred calories so i calculate myself and its free.

great it works for you.

 

[BigDadd7]

This is one of the drawbacks. The PEDs are powerful and effective. They can become a crutch for some.... I got better workouts the day after eating sushi and getting a good night sleep without using the orals compared to a depleted day while taking them.

A good night's sleep and a great preworkout meal beat an oral every time. Add a preworkout to that and lookout!

 

[Mfras]

this is a pretty good reference chart. Maybe obese was pushing it but over weight for sure. As you get lower in bf% it becomes less obvious between percentages.

View attachment 368905

A problem with this stuff is that if you were ever super fat for a good while these looks might not apply to you. No legs in the pics and if you were active while fat you might be hiding super impressive legs, these pics have even fairly aesthetic fat distribution, and tight young skin pulling the fat tight over the muscle.

I’m 6’ 3” large framed cutting down from 355- was 240 and thick most of my life but always really functionally strong for a non lifter- moved pianos and safes professionally, club bouncing, city walking and intense daily bicycle commuting. Got a sedentary job and crept up to 300 very slowly over 10 years, got badly injured and lost a lot of upper body mass, got covid lazy & fatter, but always being active and dragging my fat ass around gave me a massive bottom half- 20” lean calves, good quads, glutes, core, etc.

So I’m confident that I’m well under 20% right now in the low 250s and still look like shit, but feel great. Nothing like those pics. I’m a mix of 12-15% looking areas (shoulder definition, upper hips are peeled, mid thigh and lower vascular and shredded, and 25+% looking areas as the unfatting creeps in from the edges but stubborn fat pads pooch out in looser skin and deflated leaner skin on the belly corners.

So don’t put too much stock in these kind of photos galleries. They apply more to body types that people are used to seeing which is a ripped small framed 170-190lb lifter at 12-15%, or someone 150lbs FFM swimming in a 250lb fatsuit. I’m confident that for me 10% is well over 200, possibly more like 220-230lbs, which is still overweight flirting with obese on BMI charts. So yes 20% can technically be obese if you carry a lot of FFM as well. It’s very possible to carry a lot of muscle and not have anything like a lean small framed chest and arm heavy aesthetic.

Another problem at least for me is that while my original goal was to hit 10% or less for once in my life before lean bulking and slowly finding a comfy spot sub 15% I’m realizing that while I won’t have the ozempic melted candle look the extra skin means my best look will probably be 12-15%. Leaner would look older and deflated. I’m gonna stop cutting when the last stubborn spots are melted off and no blobs ruin my taper or silhouette. 8-10% for me would probably look amazing in a tank top & shorts but a fucking mess in a speedo.

Anyway, that’s all my bullshit. I’m not an expert or a coach but my lifestyle has been stripping a pound of fat and gaining muscle steadily for a few years. Maybe my experience could be applied to your situation.

My non-professional advice is drop the anavar. It’s not meaningfully helpful and if it fucks your lipids it ain’t worth it. Pump up your TRT to a mild high cruise and control e2 if your fat means aromatizing- 2-300mg/week is not really a cycle but will help bigtime retaining muscle or even recomping. Watch your bloods but 300 should be sustainable for months and months for most people. Add in GH or tesamorelin if you want for a cherry on top but most progress will be in the kitchen and the gym. I got down to 270 on real TRT before putting in a mild high cruise cutting stack to carry recomp as deep into my cut as possible as things slowed down.

Best to ya

 

[RockyP]

A good night's sleep and a great preworkout meal beat an oral every time. Add a preworkout to that and lookout!

I’m a slow learner but now it’s sushi night before leg day and 50 of anadrol with 6 oz
Steak and 300 g rice PWO

 

[lilhawk]

I started at .5, still titrating up. I read that 1mg is minimum for all 3 pathways, but I'm not opposed to upping it if/ when necessary. I'm going to look into what you're saying about the 2mg dosing.

Poor wording, I apologize.. I meant I struggle with keeping the weight off. I've lost significant amounts of weight in the past, only for it to return. Either way, I finally have the lifestyle shit in check and figured I'd take a ride on the dark side for a bit.

I got down to 210 last year, got back up to 250 this past September, much of which was while on that cycle. I gained a ton of strength and muscle, but also a bit of chunk of course.


I struggle with binge eating, hence the Reta.

Ignore the dosing guidelines for Reta. Start low and only increase the dosage if you need to. I take it MWF 0.6mg each shot so I'm right at 1.8-2mg of Reta per week and it works very very well for me at that dosage. I have no need to go above that dose, and probably won't. I don't use it for appetite suppression rather I use it for the effects on insulin sensitivity while using GH and other health benefits it has. It is impossible for me to gain fat since I have started using Reta, and it makes getting lean very easy even with a not so clean diet.

 

[jboogie83]

A problem with this stuff is that if you were ever super fat for a good while these looks might not apply to you. No legs in the pics and if you were active while fat you might be hiding super impressive legs, these pics have even fairly aesthetic fat distribution, and tight young skin pulling the fat tight over the muscle.

I’m 6’ 3” large framed cutting down from 355- was 240 and thick most of my life but always really functionally strong for a non lifter- moved pianos and safes professionally, club bouncing, city walking and intense daily bicycle commuting. Got a sedentary job and crept up to 300 very slowly over 10 years, got badly injured and lost a lot of upper body mass, got covid lazy & fatter, but always being active and dragging my fat ass around gave me a massive bottom half- 20” lean calves, good quads, glutes, core, etc.

So I’m confident that I’m well under 20% right now in the low 250s and still look like shit, but feel great. Nothing like those pics. I’m a mix of 12-15% looking areas (shoulder definition, upper hips are peeled, mid thigh and lower vascular and shredded, and 25+% looking areas as the unfatting creeps in from the edges but stubborn fat pads pooch out in looser skin and deflated leaner skin on the belly corners.

So don’t put too much stock in these kind of photos galleries. They apply more to body types that people are used to seeing which is a ripped small framed 170-190lb lifter at 12-15%, or someone 150lbs FFM swimming in a 250lb fatsuit. I’m confident that for me 10% is well over 200, possibly more like 220-230lbs, which is still overweight flirting with obese on BMI charts. So yes 20% can technically be obese if you carry a lot of FFM as well. It’s very possible to carry a lot of muscle and not have anything like a lean small framed chest and arm heavy aesthetic.

Another problem at least for me is that while my original goal was to hit 10% or less for once in my life before lean bulking and slowly finding a comfy spot sub 15% I’m realizing that while I won’t have the ozempic melted candle look the extra skin means my best look will probably be 12-15%. Leaner would look older and deflated. I’m gonna stop cutting when the last stubborn spots are melted off and no blobs ruin my taper or silhouette. 8-10% for me would probably look amazing in a tank top & shorts but a fucking mess in a speedo.

Anyway, that’s all my bullshit. I’m not an expert or a coach but my lifestyle has been stripping a pound of fat and gaining muscle steadily for a few years. Maybe my experience could be applied to your situation.

My non-professional advice is drop the anavar. It’s not meaningfully helpful and if it fucks your lipids it ain’t worth it. Pump up your TRT to a mild high cruise and control e2 if your fat means aromatizing- 2-300mg/week is not really a cycle but will help bigtime retaining muscle or even recomping. Watch your bloods but 300 should be sustainable for months and months for most people. Add in GH or tesamorelin if you want for a cherry on top but most progress will be in the kitchen and the gym. I got down to 270 on real TRT before putting in a mild high cruise cutting stack to carry recomp as deep into my cut as possible as things slowed down.

Best to ya

This reply is everything.. I've lost a ton of weight, so the picture scale definitely doesn't work for me, either. Differentiating between what is skin and what is fat is the ultimate mind fuck..

 

[adrenalytic]

So don’t put too much stock in these kind of photos galleries.

Jk, I read it. You're absolutely right. That's why I said reference chart and not rule. It's similar to BMI in that it leaves a lot of context out but still attaches a quantifiable number to a body type which can be used to guide an individual.

 

[Mfras]

Jk, I read it. You're absolutely right. That's why I said reference chart and not rule. It's similar to BMI in that it leaves a lot of context out but still attaches a quantifiable number to a body type which can be used to guide an individual.

Haha yeah sorry for the magna carta- hope OP was able to cherrypick the parts that might apply or help them though.

I was real confused for a while by my dexa progress vs little ripped dudes on here saying it’s impossible that I’m over 200 FFM. Just like PED toleration & response there are plenty of non typical folks who’s results don’t make sense or fit into the normal/average.

 

[dinfaralt]

this is a pretty good reference chart. Maybe obese was pushing it but over weight for sure. As you get lower in bf% it becomes less obvious between percentages.

View attachment 368905

on aas you'll generally look beetter than any photos from 10-12% and up. you just have more muscle mass and drugs in your body that drives veins etc. it makes sense some people underestimate bf% with charts like these.

 

[Savagesteve]

I found Reta effecting at .5 twice a week and have since worked up to 1.5mg twice a week and it’s been working great this whole time. It doesn’t control my appetite like tirz, but I find it helps a lot with cravings and I don’t find beer so good lol

 

[jboogie83]

I found Reta effecting at .5 twice a week and have since worked up to 1.5mg twice a week and it’s been working great this whole time. It doesn’t control my appetite like tirz, but I find it helps a lot with cravings and I don’t find beer so good lol

Yeah, 1mg is definitely doing plenty at this point for me.. appetite is way down, and I'm also not wanting to drink any alcohol.. I figured it was a combo between the Reta and being motivated by results