Should I add proviron to my 2nd blast? + general guidance needed

[nutmegpliz]

Hi lads,

I am going to do my 2nd blast, basically a re-run of my first one but with some ancillaries to mitigate various issues I ran into (sleep and BP mainly).

This cycle will be;

500mg test weekly
375mg deca weekly
30mg anavar daily.

I will be splitting injections into two per week, I believe my reluctance to do this before may have contributed to the side effects I was experiencing.

I don't aromatise particularly badly but I am prone to bloating and moon-facing, is it worth running 25mg proviron a day, how feasible is this from a health standpoint? I will only be running var for the last 6-8 weeks of the 20 week cycle.

Ancillaries:

Aromasin (dosage will be worked out during the cycle, likely starting at 12.5mg twice a week) - will be kept on-hand but I want to avoid if possible.

Propranolol 10mg before bed - I didn't know that this could inhibit melatonin production, this caused awful insomnia in me before but due to the increased sympathetic drive I was unable to sleep longer than 4-5 hours and was waking up constantly throughout the night, so I was kind of fucked either way.

Melatonin slow-release 3mg - As detailed above, this is imperative to allow me to get into a relaxed state for bedtime as I have shit sleep naturally anyway.

Telmisartan starting at 20mg a day - I was using lisinopril before as it seemed to be my best option that I didn't need to order from abroad to acquire, it seems that now private online pharmacies here can't sell BP meds for some reason, so I figured I'd stock up on telmisartan as it seems to be the most widely-selected for reducing cardiac-related morbidity. I have high BP just on a relatively high (175mg) TRT dosage without meds, I will obviously titrate the dosage up if needed, I have a BP monitor at home.

Omega 3 fish oil 2-4g per day, red yeast rice and Q10 - For heart health and controlling lipids.

Milk thistle and NAC - Liver protection, will add TUDCA if necessary, do you guys think that the MT and NAC alone will suffice?

Caber 0.25mg once or twice p/w depending on sides - I won't measure prolactin but if I am well aware of how high prolactin manifests and "feels" so will dose accordingly.

Turmeric - Along with Omega 3 to help control systemic inflammation.

If there are any bases that you think aren't covered I'd really appreciate guidance, or if any dosages or off, or if there are any better options for the things I've listed.

Given what I have described and the ancillaries I've listed, do you think the addition of proviron is feasible and will it be a worthwhile addition? If so, should I:

Take 25mg p/d, or 50mg?
Take it throughout the whole cycle, given that I will take liver protective supplements alongside?

Many thanks for any answers,

Tom

 

[Rido]

I don't aromatise particularly badly but I am prone to bloating and moon-facing, is it worth running 25mg proviron a day, how feasible is this from a health standpoint? I will only be running var for the last 6-8 weeks of the 20 week cycle.

I think this is pointless to run proviron. upping telmisartan may be more beneficial imo.

Aromasin (dosage will be worked out during the cycle, likely starting at 12.5mg twice a week) - will be kept on-hand but I want to avoid if possible.

sounds like a safe start. IF NEEDED

Telmisartan starting at 20mg a day - I was using lisinopril before as it seemed to be my best option that I didn't need to order from abroad to acquire, it seems that now private online pharmacies here can't sell BP meds for some reason, so I figured I'd stock up on telmisartan as it seems to be the most widely-selected for reducing cardiac-related morbidity. I have high BP just on a relatively high (175mg) TRT dosage without meds, I will obviously titrate the dosage up if needed, I have a BP monitor at home.

I feel like telmisartan caps out pretty quickly I think they have ran it at 160 for metabolic syndrome and losing visceral fat. but I didnt notice much of a BP drop from 40-80. nebivolol or HCTZ stacked is a different story.

To me proviron doesnt seem like it makes too much sense. it helps bring SHBG down. Anavar and additional androgens are covering that.

seems like it would be more fun for sex but thats it. just my 2c

Milk thistle and NAC - Liver protection, will add TUDCA if necessary, do you guys think that the MT and NAC alone will suffice?

Milk thistle is an old wives tale. blew alot of peoples mind when they realized it.

 

[notanothersnake]

Proviron helps me feel not so ran down on big cycles. Run it at 50mg ED and see if it improves your general sense of wellbeing and mood...

 

[nutmegpliz]

I think this is pointless to run proviron. upping telmisartan may be more beneficial imo.

How does this make sense? I will up telmisartan if my BP is still high, but the proviron is to help with E2 control, not blood pressure, surely if anything it will contribute to blood pressure? I'm really not sure what you mean bro, forgive me if I'm being ignorant here

 

[nutmegpliz]

Proviron helps me feel not so ran down on big cycles. Run it at 50mg ED and see if it improves your general sense of wellbeing and mood...

I was considering dbol just for the mood support and that was a consideration when picking proviron, is it comparable? I wanted some mood support but something that will help to keep me "dry", since the deca bloats me a fair bit

 

[Rido]

How does this make sense? I will up telmisartan if my BP is still high, but the proviron is to help with E2 control, not blood pressure, surely if anything it will contribute to blood pressure? I'm really not sure what you mean bro, forgive me if I'm being ignorant here

The reason why Telmisartan is effective for many of us in blood pressure is because it is an Angiotensin receptor blocker ARB. So It treats secondary hypertension r/t anabolics.

Anabolics do increase angiotensin which is the reason we have elevated BP. Angiotensin also does affect sodium/water retention. It lower aldosterone

Proviron is a weak estrogen blocker. it doesnt lower it, I would rather use Masteron. atleast it is anabolic to muscle building.

Water retention related to e2 could technically be reduced by proviron/masteron/(or better E2 control via AI if you are symptomatic)
Water retention r/t anabolics could be reduced by an ARB(telmisartan) by blocking angiotensin.

Obviously general water retention could also be affected by diet, cortisol, etc.

Water retention itself does affect blood pressure.

 

[nutmegpliz]

The reason why Telmisartan is effective for many of us in blood pressure is because it is an Angiotensin receptor blocker ARB. So It treats secondary hypertension r/t anabolics.

Right but this is what I mean, I never said I was taking proviron to control blood pressure, it is androgenic so is going to increase my blood pressure if anything?

Proviron is a weak estrogen blocker. it doesnt lower it, I would rather use Masteron. atleast it is anabolic to muscle building.

At what dosage would it be worth it? What about primo?

Water retention related to e2 could technically be reduced by proviron/masteron/(or better E2 control via AI if you are symptomatic)
Water retention r/t anabolics could be reduced by an ARB(telmisartan) by blocking angiotensin.

Ah Ok I didn't know ARBs could reduce water retention

Obviously general water retention could also be affected by diet, cortisol, etc.

Water retention itself does affect blood pressure.

I see, well I never had telmi before so I hope the addition itself will make a nice change to how I feel on blast. Thanks for your inputs thus far bro

 

[Rido]

Right but this is what I mean, I never said I was taking proviron to control blood pressure, it is androgenic so is going to increase my blood pressure if anything?

I guess in my head, things that can control e2 elevation/water retention will also control blood pressure. maybe thats now what you were discussing. my ad.

At what dosage would it be worth it? What about primo?

Which one? mast or primo?
I WOULD THINK even 100mg of mast a week would be more beneficial/safer than proviron 50mg ED. But I am just speculating. I dont have any hard evidence. Proviron is still very safe btw.

I wish primo worked for me, but it doesnt. I think both are good options. I prefer Masteron. to each their own.

Ah Ok I didn't know ARBs could reduce water retention

only if the water retention was due to angiotensin increase if that makes sense.

I see, well I never had telmi before so I hope the addition itself will make a nice change to how I feel on blast. Thanks for your inputs thus far bro

its a mild antihypertensive which goes a long way. I think everyone should be on 20mg minimum. We do have to watch for hyperkalemia(High potassium) but it isnt that likely to occur.

 

[nutmegpliz]

I guess in my head, things that can control e2 elevation/water retention will also control blood pressure. maybe thats now what you were discussing. my ad.


Which one? mast or primo?
I WOULD THINK even 100mg of mast a week would be more beneficial/safer than proviron 50mg ED. But I am just speculating. I dont have any hard evidence. Proviron is still very safe btw.

I wish primo worked for me, but it doesnt. I think both are good options. I prefer Masteron. to each their own.


only if the water retention was due to angiotensin increase if that makes sense.


its a mild antihypertensive which goes a long way. I think everyone should be on 20mg minimum. We do have to watch for hyperkalemia(High potassium) but it isnt that likely to occur.

OK bro so I've had a change of heart, my last dosage of deca was actually 250mg p/w. I think I'm going to stick to that and add 300mg p/w of masteron, keep the plan for test and var the same. Thoughts? I was considering maybe running winny or dbol at the start of the cycle, maybe like 6 weeks for a mini-bulk then recomp for the rest of the blast. Am I over-complicating things? I'm scared of getting deca dick as I have a gf, we are both very very sexual so losing my dick function would be a huge strain on us.

 

[Rido]

OK bro so I've had a change of heart, my last dosage of deca was actually 250mg p/w. I think I'm going to stick to that and add 300mg p/w of masteron, keep the plan for test and var the same. Thoughts? I was considering maybe running winny or dbol at the start of the cycle, maybe like 6 weeks for a mini-bulk then recomp for the rest of the blast. Am I over-complicating things? I'm scared of getting deca dick as I have a gf, we are both very very sexual so losing my dick function would be a huge strain on us.

Mast won't hurt. If you ran 250 deca before and it was good, it would make it better imo.


I would rather run multiple compounds at doses you can handle.

As long as you don't have 2 new things at the same time.

I don't think kick starts are necessary but they are fun.

Bro science states that masteron negates negative effects of 19nors. There is some scientific evidence that may give a reason why(suggesting possible prolactin secretion inhibitotion)

 

[T&H]

Hi lads,

I am going to do my 2nd blast, basically a re-run of my first one but with some ancillaries to mitigate various issues I ran into (sleep and BP mainly).

This cycle will be;

500mg test weekly
375mg deca weekly
30mg anavar daily.

I will be splitting injections into two per week, I believe my reluctance to do this before may have contributed to the side effects I was experiencing.

I don't aromatise particularly badly but I am prone to bloating and moon-facing, is it worth running 25mg proviron a day, how feasible is this from a health standpoint? I will only be running var for the last 6-8 weeks of the 20 week cycle.

Ancillaries:

Aromasin (dosage will be worked out during the cycle, likely starting at 12.5mg twice a week) - will be kept on-hand but I want to avoid if possible.

Propranolol 10mg before bed - I didn't know that this could inhibit melatonin production, this caused awful insomnia in me before but due to the increased sympathetic drive I was unable to sleep longer than 4-5 hours and was waking up constantly throughout the night, so I was kind of fucked either way.

Melatonin slow-release 3mg - As detailed above, this is imperative to allow me to get into a relaxed state for bedtime as I have shit sleep naturally anyway.

Telmisartan starting at 20mg a day - I was using lisinopril before as it seemed to be my best option that I didn't need to order from abroad to acquire, it seems that now private online pharmacies here can't sell BP meds for some reason, so I figured I'd stock up on telmisartan as it seems to be the most widely-selected for reducing cardiac-related morbidity. I have high BP just on a relatively high (175mg) TRT dosage without meds, I will obviously titrate the dosage up if needed, I have a BP monitor at home.

Omega 3 fish oil 2-4g per day, red yeast rice and Q10 - For heart health and controlling lipids.

Milk thistle and NAC - Liver protection, will add TUDCA if necessary, do you guys think that the MT and NAC alone will suffice?

Caber 0.25mg once or twice p/w depending on sides - I won't measure prolactin but if I am well aware of how high prolactin manifests and "feels" so will dose accordingly.

Turmeric - Along with Omega 3 to help control systemic inflammation.

If there are any bases that you think aren't covered I'd really appreciate guidance, or if any dosages or off, or if there are any better options for the things I've listed.

Given what I have described and the ancillaries I've listed, do you think the addition of proviron is feasible and will it be a worthwhile addition? If so, should I:

Take 25mg p/d, or 50mg?
Take it throughout the whole cycle, given that I will take liver protective supplements alongside?

Many thanks for any answers,

Tom

Running proviron for the first time, 50mg a day. Dridra brand which had testing and other of their orals are solid.

Noticing zilch, nothing, nada. Read some guys say it was useless and got nothing from it. Might up to 75mg just to see but probably another oral I'm going to write off forever.

 

[LescoBrandon]

Running proviron for the first time, 50mg a day. Dridra brand which had testing and other of their orals are solid.

Noticing zilch, nothing, nada. Read some guys say it was useless and got nothing from it. Might up to 75mg just to see but probably another oral I'm going to write off forever.

proviron supposedly has low oral bioavailability. its never done much for me. ive heard some people say that injectable proviron works much better, but nobody sells that

 

[BrockSamson42]

Proviron helps me feel not so ran down on big cycles. Run it at 50mg ED and see if it improves your general sense of wellbeing and mood...

@ OP, Using provision on cycle is mainly beneficial for something like tren which leeches serotonin from your brain causing the irritability.

However, Proviron side effect profile is mild and (imo) best used for supplemental sex benefits. 50-75mg of that stuff is great. It also works as an anti-depressant which is it why it works well for using during cycle as cycle support for things like Tren. It's fun but expensive stuff.

As far as gains, I wouldn't expect anything at all from it apart from the sex benefits and mood boost.

 

[Black90tsi]

I can contribute some personal experience here. For about 7 weeks now I've been running

350 test c/week
150 deca/week
50mg proviron daily

I decided to try proviron both for the libido and the mood enhancement it's supposed to give. I take the 50 mg in a single capsule every morning. Have you ever seen the movie Hot Tub Time Machine? There's a scene on a ski mountain where the bald guy says how great he feels and the he just wants to fuck something. That's basically how i feel. There's a very calm sense of well being i noticed coming on within an hour of taking the first dose. Basically every half way decent looking girl i notice going about my daily life i'm telling myself in my head i'd like sleep to with her. Fortunately i have a gf that is generally able to keep up with me in the bedroom. If i didn't have someone to sleep with readily available i'd be a very frustrated individual.

If you have other questions i'll try to answer them for you.

 

[Dom9411]

Lot of guys using proviron whole year. I've back to Provi but think to raise up to 50mg daily