Should I be worried? Lipid panel

[Lilj888]

Alright before/if I get bashed here me out.

I do bloods 3 times yearly for trt. I take 200mg a week. The doc writes a prescription for the bloodwork and I take it to the clinic. Generally I don’t really look at the labs other than my testosterone levels. I figure everything alright since the doc hasn’t said anything. Just says looks good and that’s all I needed to hear or so I thought.

I underwent surgery 3 months ago on my neck ACDF surgery (my arm was going paralyzed in total didn’t work out for 6 months and lost 20lbs) and was given the green to get back in the gym. I figured I’d boost myself with a cycle.

Fast forward I started my cycle last week Monday with Anavar 50mg and front loaded 450mg test c this past friday. Then will do 250mg Mon/thurs.

I go take my trt prescribed lab test to quest on Friday and realize there’s no e2 on it and non of my prior reports have E2 since switching to my new doc (urologist not trt clinics) after I moved states. I buy an E2 test from Ulta. Get it back and it’s 66 very high for me I usually hover around 10-20 given the dose. I believe it shot up because of the Hcg I blasted 2 weeks prior 2000iux2 weeks. Sometimes I’ll run a blast of it to get my nads good to go and then 500 iu a week. Friday i take 12.5mg aromasin after front load. I see the results Saturday (66) and take another 12.5mg and Monday 12.5 after 250 injection. So this Tuesday(yesterday) I take another full lab after I did one Friday. Got my E2 down to 35. Great, especially after front load.

But I really take the test again because I realize I don’t have a lipid panel done after searching through my lab tests on the year. This is where I am worried. I thought my doc was requesting them.

Now the lipid panel - I’m fucking pissed at the doc to not have been requesting this or E2. It’s common sense if you’re touting yourself as a trt replacement doc.

Now I don’t know my baseline if it was out of whack from surgery and being inactive or the Anavar really did a number quick. I’ve run orals many times and usually it takes a few weeks to fuck my lipids. I never ran var so I come to you.

My diet is good. It’s clean. Cheat meals here and there but nothing crazy. Body fat is around 12%. But already lost a lot of that fat from sitting on my ass from surgery.

Another note I have been vaping which I know is bad for lipids. Started during the pandemic. As well as I didn’t fully fast. Ate 13 hours before the panel. Can’t imagine it would cause that bad a reaction. I am immediately stopping the vape after seeing that shit. I haven’t drank or anything else since my surgery.

I also noticed my alkaline phosphate has dropped out of range too from Friday when I took my trt bloods from yesterdays labs. Last night I had woke up to some bad night sweats. Which I haven’t gotten since my tren days.

I have been running steroids for 15 years and trt for 10 years. All my prior labs via my old doc were good on the lipids. Sometimes hdl/ldl can be a bit high low but nothing as the attached.

I have yet to get my full labs yet to post the report. Waiting on a couple things. Will post when I get it all.

I am taking organ defender/cycle support. Just ordered a bunch of other cholesterol shit (niacin, bergamot, red yeast) Is this normal for var to be doing this so fast?

 

[Mongo966]

Alright before/if I get bashed here me out.

I do bloods 3 times yearly for trt. I take 200mg a week. The doc writes a prescription for the bloodwork and I take it to the clinic. Generally I don’t really look at the labs other than my testosterone levels. I figure everything alright since the doc hasn’t said anything. Just says looks good and that’s all I needed to hear or so I thought.

I underwent surgery 3 months ago on my neck ACDF surgery (my arm was going paralyzed in total didn’t work out for 6 months and lost 20lbs) and was given the green to get back in the gym. I figured I’d boost myself with a cycle.

Fast forward I started my cycle last week Monday with Anavar 50mg and front loaded 450mg test c this past friday. Then will do 250mg Mon/thurs.

I go take my trt prescribed lab test to quest on Friday and realize there’s no e2 on it and non of my prior reports have E2 since switching to my new doc (urologist not trt clinics) after I moved states. I buy an E2 test from Ulta. Get it back and it’s 66 very high for me I usually hover around 10-20 given the dose. I believe it shot up because of the Hcg I blasted 2 weeks prior 2000iux2 weeks. Sometimes I’ll run a blast of it to get my nads good to go and then 500 iu a week. Friday i take 12.5mg aromasin after front load. I see the results Saturday (66) and take another 12.5mg and Monday 12.5 after 250 injection. So this Tuesday(yesterday) I take another full lab after I did one Friday. Got my E2 down to 35. Great, especially after front load.

But I really take the test again because I realize I don’t have a lipid panel done after searching through my lab tests on the year. This is where I am worried. I thought my doc was requesting them.

Now the lipid panel - I’m fucking pissed at the doc to not have been requesting this or E2. It’s common sense if you’re touting yourself as a trt replacement doc.

Now I don’t know my baseline if it was out of whack from surgery and being inactive or the Anavar really did a number quick. I’ve run orals many times and usually it takes a few weeks to fuck my lipids. I never ran var so I come to you.

My diet is good. It’s clean. Cheat meals here and there but nothing crazy. Body fat is around 12%. But already lost a lot of that fat from sitting on my ass from surgery.

Another note I have been vaping which I know is bad for lipids. Started during the pandemic. As well as I didn’t fully fast. Ate 13 hours before the panel. Can’t imagine it would cause that bad a reaction. I am immediately stopping the vape after seeing that shit. I haven’t drank or anything else since my surgery.

I also noticed my alkaline phosphate has dropped out of range too from Friday when I took my trt bloods from yesterdays labs. Last night I had woke up to some bad night sweats. Which I haven’t gotten since my tren days.

I have been running steroids for 15 years and trt for 10 years. All my prior labs via my old doc were good on the lipids. Sometimes hdl/ldl can be a bit high low but nothing as the attached.

I have yet to get my full labs yet to post the report. Waiting on a couple things. Will post when I get it all.

I am taking organ defender/cycle support. Just ordered a bunch of other cholesterol shit (niacin, bergamot, red yeast) Is this normal for var to be doing this so fast?

I'm putting my money on the Anavar being the biggest contributor. For what it's worth, your lipids aren't horrific. I'd definitely keep a close eye on them to see how bad they're going to get while you're on this cycle so you can guage whether or not it's worthwhile.

 

[Isrrike]

Red yeast will help your lipids. Anavar trashes them

 

[Lilj888]

I'm putting my money on the Anavar being the biggest contributor. For what it's worth, your lipids aren't horrific. I'd definitely keep a close eye on them to see how bad they're going to get while you're on this cycle so you can guage whether or not it's worthwhile.

Well my question I forgot to pose was should I drop it or try it for one more week and take a lipid test again next week. Just wondering how long I can sustain these levels.

I also just added in cardio today so that should help.

 

[Mongo966]

Well my question I forgot to pose was should I drop it or try it for one more week and take a lipid test again next week. Just wondering how long I can sustain these levels.

I also just added in cardio today so that should help.

Yeah just re-assess in a week or 2. I wouldn't suggest that it's a good idea to leave your lipids out of range for any period of time if it's avoidable. But I also don't recommend for anyone to take steroids either. It's a calculated risk we're taking. This ain't no free lunch. Your LDL isn't terrible but your HDL is in pretty rough shape. See if you can adjust them with cardio and maybe some GW.

 

[Lilj888]

Yeah just re-assess in a week or 2. I wouldn't suggest that it's a good idea to leave your lipids out of range for any period of time if it's avoidable. But I also don't recommend for anyone to take steroids either. It's a calculated risk we're taking. This ain't no free lunch. Your LDL isn't terrible but your HDL is in pretty rough shape. See if you can adjust them with cardio and maybe some GW.

Agreed. Just taking Dbol or winny usually takes 4 weeks to see it getting to a bad level. So I am surprised it happen so fast. I use to run Dbol regularly. I’ll check GW out see if I can get it in time.

 

[UncleBuns]

Those lipids are not good but orals are notorious for wrecking your lipid profile. Cardio, more fiber in diet, and taking omega 3 fish oil can all help, but the amount they will help is also dependent on genetics. If you want to keep orals in the cycle I would do the things I suggested there and then get another blood test after 4 weeks or so and see where you're at. If your lipids are still very bad you either just have to accept that's the way it is for you on anavar or try a different oral and see how that does or just stick to injectables which don't always but tend to be easier on lipids. The poor lipid profile is transient though. Once you stop the oral they will go back to your normal baseline.

 

[Lilj888]

Those lipids are not good but orals are notorious for wrecking your lipid profile. Cardio, more fiber in diet, and taking omega 3 fish oil can all help, but the amount they will help is also dependent on genetics. If you want to keep orals in the cycle I would do the things I suggested there and then get another blood test after 4 weeks or so and see where you're at. If your lipids are still very bad you either just have to accept that's the way it is for you on anavar or try a different oral and see how that does or just stick to injectables which don't always but tend to be easier on lipids. The poor lipid profile is transient though. Once you stop the oral they will go back to your normal baseline.

Yea I have taken orals many times. Anavar I don’t think I ever got real stuff back in the day. Dbol/winny take awhile to mess me up. Unfortunately I don’t have a recent baseline, but my question was more for how long can I sustain these levels if say Anavar did do this in the one week I have been taking it? I plan on another lipid panel next week.

 

[Type-IIx]

Yes, you should be worried about risk of suffering a cardiovascular-thromboembolic event (e.g., heart attack, stroke) within the next decade at this LDL-C level that corresponds to a > 0.933 Apo B/Apo-A1 ratio, and a nearly fourfold greater risk than the norm, for whom a < 0.50 Apo B:Apo-A1 is regarded as biologically normal in men.

 

[UncleBuns]

Yea I have taken orals many times. Anavar I don’t think I ever got real stuff back in the day. Dbol/winny take awhile to mess me up. Unfortunately I don’t have a recent baseline, but my question was more for how long can I sustain these levels if say Anavar did do this in the one week I have been taking it? I plan on another lipid panel next week.

Yes, you should be worried about risk of suffering a cardiovascular-thromboembolic event (e.g., heart attack, stroke) within the next decade at this LDL-C level that corresponds to a > 0.933 Apo B/Apo-A1 ratio, and a nearly fourfold greater risk than the norm, for whom a < 0.50 Apo B:Apo-A1 is regarded as biologically normal in men.

If I was you I would I crease cardio, increase fiber, and take 3 - 4 grams omega 3's for at least a few weeks then get another lipid panel. That or just drop the anavar.

@Type-IIx Do you mean sustaining those levels for a decade? I would think having poor lipids for 6-8 weeks once or twice a year on an orals run would be not ideal but not detrimental as long as your lipids are in good range the majority of the year. Thoughts?

 

[Lilj888]

If I was you I would I crease cardio, increase fiber, and take 3 - 4 grams omega 3's for at least a few weeks then get another lipid panel. That or just drop the anavar.

@Type-IIx Do you mean sustaining those levels for a decade? I would think having poor lipids for 6-8 weeks once or twice a year on an orals run would be not ideal but not detrimental as long as your lipids are in good range the majority of the year. Thoughts?

My thoughts too @Type-IIx im not at these levels year round or at least I hope haven’t had a lipid panel done in two years. Will be doing them more often on my own and requesting my doctor to get his head out of his ass or finding a new one. A few weeks on var was my question… how long could you sustain shit poor lipids? Usually when I’m at these levels I’m on my way off of cycling the orals. If it’s fine and takes ldl build up years then I’m not to worried I’ll get back on track. If it’s a major risk then yea fuck var

 

[Type-IIx]

If I was you I would I crease cardio, increase fiber, and take 3 - 4 grams omega 3's for at least a few weeks then get another lipid panel. That or just drop the anavar.

@Type-IIx Do you mean sustaining those levels for a decade? I would think having poor lipids for 6-8 weeks once or twice a year on an orals run would be not ideal but not detrimental as long as your lipids are in good range the majority of the year. Thoughts?

My thoughts too @Type-IIx im not at these levels year round or at least I hope haven’t had a lipid panel done in two years. Will be doing them more often on my own and requesting my doctor to get his head out of his ass or finding a new one. A few weeks on var was my question… how long could you sustain shit poor lipids? Usually when I’m at these levels I’m on my way off of cycling the orals. If it’s fine and takes ldl build up years then I’m not to worried I’ll get back on track. If it’s a major risk then yea fuck var

Of course, transient dyslipidemia is less risky than chronic dyslipidemia. If 6-8 weeks is all that you spend at comparable atherosclerotic states, then yes, your risk is less than someone who remains at these for years. Nobody knows for how long or at what point of inflection risk begins to really increase at an increasing rate, that would be beyond the scope of most research. The AAS-using population is relatively small, but there is a constellation of data that suggest its anabolic agent use patterns dramatically increase risk resulting in early demise from fatal cardiovascular-atherosclerotic events. But researchers and clinicians are still working out basic risk factors, starting to use charts aimed at reaching therapeutic targets, based on this more basic research that is aimed at the general population writ large rather than bodybuilders.

 

[UncleBuns]

Of course, transient dyslipidemia is less risky than chronic dyslipidemia. If 6-8 weeks is all that you spend at comparable atherosclerotic states, then yes, your risk is less than someone who remains at these for years. Nobody knows for how long or at what point of inflection risk begins to really increase at an increasing rate, that would be beyond the scope of most research. The AAS-using population is relatively small, but there is a constellation of data that suggest its anabolic agent use patterns dramatically increase risk resulting in early demise from fatal cardiovascular-atherosclerotic events. But researchers and clinicians are still working out basic risk factors, starting to use charts aimed at reaching therapeutic targets, based on this more basic research that is aimed at the general population writ large rather than bodybuilders.

So, use lowest dosages necessary, mitigate dislipidemia as much as possible, minimize time in a dislipidemia state, and know that any time spent in that state is not good. I imagine there are aot of other factors at play like lifestyle, general state of inflammation, and genetics that would be difficult to accurately factor in. Seems doubtful proper studies will be done on AAS users who enter acute phases periodically.

 

[Type-IIx]

So, use lowest dosages necessary, mitigate dislipidemia as much as possible, minimize time in a dislipidemia state, and know that any time spent in that state is not good. I imagine there are aot of other factors at play like lifestyle, general state of inflammation, and genetics that would be difficult to accurately factor in. Seems doubtful proper studies will be done on AAS users who enter acute phases periodically.

All correct. Exactly. I have a client at the moment who is particularly concerned about having a familial history of (fatal) cardiovascular events, so he put together an outstanding Excel workbook to monitor relevant variables. I am impressed by it to say the least, it's very well crafted for this task. I'll use the concept (not the creation itself) to give this to other clients similarly situated; and you might consider monitoring such variables (e.g., LDL-C, HDL-C/LDL-C ratio, Apo-B/Apo-A1 ratio, VLDL, etc.)

 

[roflmao]

Add some fasted cardio, Omega 3 and Citrus Bergamotte (1500mg ed) and it will correct itself relatively fast, Anavar took a toll on your lipids but they aren't that bad.

 

[TheBootstrap]

Yes, you should be worried about risk of suffering a cardiovascular-thromboembolic event (e.g., heart attack, stroke) within the next decade at this LDL-C level that corresponds to a > 0.933 Apo B/Apo-A1 ratio, and a nearly fourfold greater risk than the norm, for whom a < 0.50 Apo B:Apo-A1 is regarded as biologically normal in men.

What is the source for saying that the cutoff for "biologically normal" is 0.50? When giving their test details, Quest cites Wallace G et al. J Intern Med. 2004;255:188-205 and says, for males:
Optimal is <0.77

Quest Diagnostics: Test Directory

testdirectory.questdiagnostics.com

Thanks.

 

[Lilj888]

I was able to significantly reduce ldl and cholesterol by 20%, but hdl keeps going down.

Added some cardio, niacin, red yeast rice, bergamot, and cycle support

If I can bring ldl down more and total cholesterol would having a low hdl be so bad? Basically if I were to get the ratio closer to 5

 

[-Maui-]

I was able to significantly reduce ldl and cholesterol by 20%, but hdl keeps going down.

Hey! Have you tried NAC?

Dose-related increase of HDL-cholesterol levels after N-acetylcysteine in man - PubMed

Changes in plasma lipid-lipoprotein levels were evaluated in 10 hyperlipidemic patients during treatment with progressive doses (from 1200 mg day-1 to 3600 mg day-1) of N-acetylcysteine (NAC). Plasma total cholesterol and triglyceride levels, as well as those of lipoprotein (a) did not change to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Lilj888]

Hey! Have you tried NAC?

Dose-related increase of HDL-cholesterol levels after N-acetylcysteine in man - PubMed

Changes in plasma lipid-lipoprotein levels were evaluated in 10 hyperlipidemic patients during treatment with progressive doses (from 1200 mg day-1 to 3600 mg day-1) of N-acetylcysteine (NAC). Plasma total cholesterol and triglyceride levels, as well as those of lipoprotein (a) did not change to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Yea that’s in my Cycle Support supplement from Amazon

 

[-Maui-]

Yea that’s in my Cycle Support supplement from Amazon

Oh! Good! How long and how much?