Shoulder training

[Megadick3000]

When you guys train shoulders are you looking at overall volume for the muscle group, or are you looking at overall volume for each deltoid head?

 

[Megadick3000]

And if the latter, where doyou count overhead press volume? Anterior? Medial? Both?

 

[Yar]

When you guys train shoulders are you looking at overall volume for the muscle group, or are you looking at overall volume for each deltoid head?

I look at the total amount of training on the shoulders.

 

[Titan18]

I train each deltoid head as separate muscles on a PPL split but the volume of all 3 heads would roughly equate to what you do for 1 body part. I do also throw in a separate shoulder/arms day on what would be my off day on the PPL.

 

[Demondosage]

I do all my raises first, presses after I’m pre exhausted with good pump and volume to the delts

 

[HopHop79]

I do volume for delts. Go for that intense burn then partials until they are done. Due to injuries I do rear delts, then chest, then side delts, then tris on push days. I do presses if I’m feeling really good that day, but not too often. Old man problems.

 

[Yar]

I train each deltoid head as separate muscles on a PPL split but the volume of all 3 heads would roughly equate to what you do for 1 body part. I do also throw in a separate shoulder/arms day on what would be my off day on the PPL.

Can you give a more detailed example of the program for the shoulders, how do you train them?

 

[Yar]

I do all my raises first, presses after I’m pre exhausted with good pump and volume to the delts

When I did bench presses after the shoulders, which you write about with preliminary fatigue, when lowering the bar, my front deltas start to hurt very much.

 

[Titan18]

Can you give a more detailed example of the program for the shoulders, how do you train them?

On push day i do lateral raises and overhead presses. For laterals I do 4 sets of 20-25. I mix these up. For lateral raises I might do DB, cables, unilateral with kettlebell, etc. On the fourth set I will either go heavy and do partials or drop set (john meadows style). Overhead press I will sometimes go a little heavier (8-10 reps) but sometimes I stay with 20-25 reps. I use BB seated, smith machine standing, DB. I like to mix it up with shoulders in general.

Then on pull day I will do 4 sets or so of rear delt, always high reps. I use reverse pec dec, DB, and then on the last set I will sometimes superset with something like face pulls.

After leg day I was taking an off day to rest but recently added a shoulder/arms day instead of taking a day off and honestly shoulders and arms isn't very taxing on me and is still kind of rest day. So shoulder get hit again here, all three deltoid heads. I always start with my rear delts and then move to my lateral raise movement, and end with presses. This is very much a pump style workout, just doing high reps and pushing blood into my shoulders.

 

[Yar]

On push day i do lateral raises and overhead presses. For laterals I do 4 sets of 20-25. I mix these up. For lateral raises I might do DB, cables, unilateral with kettlebell, etc. On the fourth set I will either go heavy and do partials or drop set (john meadows style). Overhead press I will sometimes go a little heavier (8-10 reps) but sometimes I stay with 20-25 reps. I use BB seated, smith machine standing, DB. I like to mix it up with shoulders in general.

Then on pull day I will do 4 sets or so of rear delt, always high reps. I use reverse pec dec, DB, and then on the last set I will sometimes superset with something like face pulls.

After leg day I was taking an off day to rest but recently added a shoulder/arms day instead of taking a day off and honestly shoulders and arms isn't very taxing on me and is still kind of rest day. So shoulder get hit again here, all three deltoid heads. I always start with my rear delts and then move to my lateral raise movement, and end with presses. This is very much a pump style workout, just doing high reps and pushing blood into my shoulders.

Wow, that's a great idea, I haven't seen that one. Thanks for telling me how you train them.

 

[Megadick3000]

I was more asking if you guys set progressive volume goals for each deltoid head or just the entire muscle group itself.

I.e. 20 sets/week for shoulders

OR

7 sets a week for anterior delts
7 sets a week for medial delts
5 sets a week for posterior delts

 

[Yar]

I was more asking if you guys set progressive volume goals for each deltoid head or just the entire muscle group itself.

I.e. 20 sets/week for shoulders

OR

7 sets a week for anterior delts
7 sets a week for medial delts
5 sets a week for posterior delts

It seems to me that 20 approaches is a lot if the condition is still a progressive method of training, and not cyclic training on the shoulders.

 

[jJjburton]

I do volume for delts. Go for that intense burn then partials until they are done. Due to injuries I do rear delts, then chest, then side delts, then tris on push days. I do presses if I’m feeling really good that day, but not too often. Old man problems.

I start with rear delts first too, and arnold presses as they dont hurt shoulder. I find it warms up the joint without pain. Then i can go harder on aspects that would of hurt shoulder. This is helping so much.

Also i do volume, i never purposely work front delts as its such a small muscle it gets worked alot, from all other exercises

 

[Evom1]

For me I grow best with low volume and high intensity. Rear delts get hit on pull day, side and front delts on push day.

With my rotation they're hit every 4 days.

 

[Megadick3000]

It seems to me that 20 approaches is a lot if the condition is still a progressive method of training, and not cyclic training on the shoulders.

You think 20 sets/week for shoulders is too muchvolume? My last week of shoulder workouts totalled 24 setsfor the week.

 

[Evom1]

You think 20 sets/week for shoulders is too muchvolume? My last week of shoulder workouts totalled 24 setsfor the week.

Definitely too much if they're taken to failure. If going to true failure I'd be between 6-10 total

 

[Tenman2b]

Definitely too much if they're taken to failure. If going to true failure I'd be between 6-10 total

Would you mind breaking down how what you mean? 6 sets a week seems like too little to me.
3 sets Shoulder Press Monday - 85% 1RM to failure x3
3 sets Lateral raises Friday - 85% 1RM to failure
6 Total sets for shoulder in a week.

Is that what you mean?

 

[Evom1]

Would you mind breaking down how what you mean? 6 sets a week seems like too little to me.
3 sets Shoulder Press Monday - 85% 1RM to failure x3
3 sets Lateral raises Friday - 85% 1RM to failure
6 Total sets for shoulder in a week.

Is that what you mean?

If your sets are truly intense, and truly taken to absolute failure, 6-10 sets would be sufficient. The key is absolute failure and true intensity. I used to do way too much volume like 4x8-12 press, 4x10-15 side raises, 4x10-15 front raises. Growth was minimal. Pulled back the volume and focused on the intensity and finding true failure... I grew significantly ettet

2-3 sets of pressing
You could do something here like 1-2 sets of 6-8 and then 1x10-15, or maybe do a rest pause set aiming got a total of 20-25 and then one straight set

2-3 sets of lateral raises

So where I'll hit shoulders every 4 days, they're getting 8 total sets per week and I'm seeing my best growth with this approach.

 

[Megadick3000]

Definitely too much if they're taken to failure. If going to true failure I'd be between 6-10 total

I take it youve runnDCs style of training?

Im thinking of giving it a go, as i honestly hate doing high volume, id rather go balks to the wall on intensity with way less volume. But the bros are always whoring this more volume = more gainz shit. Im also natty these days, so recovery isnt what it used to be.

My 24 sets/week shoulders was the end of my meso cycle (max volume). Every sets taken to 1-2 RIR.

Assuming youve run DCs approach, for these rep-pause megasets are you doingna bunch of warmup sets first? I pretty much never do warm up sets because i dont need to unless im pushing for a PR. I hate long workouts and warm up sets just ensure my workouts longer without adding any challenge to the situation.

 

[Evom1]

I take it youve runnDCs style of training?

Im thinking of giving it a go, as i honestly hate doing high volume, id rather go balks to the wall on intensity with way less volume. But the bros are always whoring this more volume = more gainz shit. Im also natty these days, so recovery isnt what it used to be.

My 24 sets/week shoulders was the end of my meso cycle (max volume). Every sets taken to 1-2 RIR.

Assuming youve run DCs approach, for these rep-pause megasets are you doingna bunch of warmup sets first? I pretty much never do warm up sets because i dont need to unless im pushing for a PR. I hate long workouts and warm up sets just ensure my workouts longer without adding any challenge to the situation.

I have done DC in the past and I've definitely incorporated parts of it here. I also go off a lot of Jewett's principles

I do warm up sets on nearly everything. Having skipped them when I was younger and had it lead to injury. I do at least 2 warm up sets but typically more.

So let's say I'm going to do Smith machine shoulder press...
I would do 1 plate for 8, add a 25 for 8, 2 plates for 6, then go to my top weight for my working set. Then drop down to the weight I'd use for either the straight set or the rest pause.