Steroid Lab Testing - Purpose of Forum and New Thread Title Formatting

[devildog93]

We can't help them if they want to hang out on paid boards. We especially can't help people who don't need our help. By that i mean the people that are getting the special orders by being vocal and outspoken for the sources that may be questioned on these boards. They don't really want our help. They want us to go away and take their word for everything so business can continue like normal for them. they have no interest in anyone but themselves.

I personally take it as a badge of honor if we raise enough of a stink here to get mentioned on other boards. If testing and member feedback here causes problems somewhere else then perhaps those wanting to see both sides of the story will take a look and come over from the dark side like i did. If not for the mention of this board like a curse word on the anabolex forums i would have never known about it.

 

[bickel29]

We can't help them if they want to hang out on paid boards. We especially can't help people who don't need our help. By that i mean the people that are getting the special orders by being vocal and outspoken for the sources that may be questioned on these boards. They don't really want our help. They want us to go away and take their word for everything so business can continue like normal for them. they have no interest in anyone but themselves.

I personally take it as a badge of honor if we raise enough of a stink here to get mentioned on other boards. If testing and member feedback here causes problems somewhere else then perhaps those wanting to see both sides of the story will take a look and come over from the dark side like i did. If not for the mention of this board like a curse word on the anabolex forums i would have never known about it.

Yeah, I hear where you're coming from DevilDog, I guess we just see this one a little differently.

I share in Millard's vision. I guess as John Lennon once sang, "you may say, I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one". There's at least 2 of us.

I feel like if we know we made a fair and thorough and compelling case, we'll know we were in the right, even as some (or most) of those on other boards oppose our findings. The truth is the truth, right is right. I just feel better when we are able to make a case that an unbiased observer looking in would say "you can't really argue with that". That is where multiple test results would have benefitted everyone involved.

We'll never win over everyone, but we can win over some of the naysayers, as they slowly see that we really do stand for fairness and the truth, no matter who wins and who loses. That is where making a thorough case backed by multiple pieces of evidence becomes so powerful.

I am glad you didn't let your other board keep you from here - it's good having you around!

 

[Colt44]

Yeah, I hear where you're coming from DevilDog, I guess we just see this one a little differently.

I share in Millard's vision. I guess as John Lennon once sang, "you may say, I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one". There's at least 2 of us.

I feel like if we know we made a fair and thorough and compelling case, we'll know we were in the right, even as some (or most) of those on other boards oppose our findings. The truth is the truth, right is right. I just feel better when we are able to make a case that an unbiased observer looking in would say "you can't really argue with that". That is where multiple test results would have benefitted everyone involved.

We'll never win over everyone, but we can win over some of the naysayers, as they slowly see that we really do stand for fairness and the truth, no matter who wins and who loses. That is where making a thorough case backed by multiple pieces of evidence becomes so powerful.

I am glad you didn't let your other board keep you from here - it's good having you around!

Great post Bickel. I share the same opinion. I am interested in fact based arguments. We will not be able to please everyone but with enough evidence the truth will come to light. Some will believe those truths and some won't. All we can do is make our case and let the chips fall where they may.

Multiple tests submitted by multiple members is the only way to ensure these arguments carry weight.

I for one love this place and I will continue testing and providing the facts that will ensure AAS harm reduction and protect the community as a whole.

 

[devildog93]

Ok, so to look out for the most members it would make sense to get and test the most common substances first, then work on down the line. If and when we find a decent supplier 3 people need to grab some test c for example and have it tested. I'm not saying it has to be test c, but it seems to me it would be a far more common choice than say tren a or something niche. Another common and easy one would be dbol, anadrol or something mainstream like that.

I know we have 50 different pages of short ester diatribes, but i don't think that is indicative of what is being ordered in the real world. If not, then we can at least get some guys together who specialize in certain substances. I would be no good for testing tren or short esters as i have zero background with the substances. I do have a substantial background with long chain test, dbol and anadrol though...so i would just add my name to the list for those if and when we get some past initial testing and into bloodwork. We could also have a group of guys who know their shit on the short stuff. I think this would be helpful for anecdotal evidence if nothing else, like wanting a guy who has worked for a Ford dealership for 30 years to work on your Ford pickup before the VW mechanic. The lab tests will be the lab tests, but user testimony from guys who have run the same shit for 20 years and know what to expect can't hurt.

 

[Manny]

This is great Millard! Progress not perfection!

Another member of the cult that is aa or na? I'm a member of aa.

 

[Millard]

Maybe we should eliminate brackets to declutter thread titles?

lab+name product+name - type+of+testing (e.g. labmax/GC/MS/serum) - date+of+testing (e.g. yyyy-mm) performed+by (who performed testing)

 

[BigAngus]

@devildog93 and @bickel29 , Yes, the results must absolutely be repeated and confirmed.

For any given product, I agree that it is good to have a minimum of three different indviduals acquire samples independently. Unfortunately, in the absence of an identifiable, independent and accredited analytical lab, there will also be questions about who is performing or vouching for the the analyses. The use of anonymous labs doesn't help.

The use of anonymous labs doesn't establish credibility on its own but coupled with intent it poses one avenue of approach. I have a possible solution to this conundrum, but it lacks implementation. I work with a fully independent and accredited analytical lab that I have shared with a few people on this board. They are a for-profit company that does testing in their own facility with a list of analytical services that is quite impressive. They have agreed to do some testing and I have even used them a few times. The problem is that if I post this lab's name then they will get overwhelmed with questions and samples coming from the community to the point they shut off our access to this valuable resource. In addition they will also draw the attention of the DEA and other LE. Their company boasts that they have tested for biotech and pharm companies since the mid 1990's but I think there is some grey area there when it comes to their license and pharmaceuticals (I do not know all the legalities involved). I speak from experience when I say they would be overwhelmed with requests. I burned out and now only help very few peopole, never defending anything cause it doesn't matter to me what people think.

Enough about me though, the point here is that I don't mind sharing this independent verifiable lab, but with whom? How can it be set up so that it is not overrun? So one of our tools in this game is not taken away? I sit back and read some of the things that are written by people critical of the labwork and then I speak to the chemists at the 2 labs I work with and watch in disbelief as their work is ridiculed and torn apart by people that thrive on controversy. It is absolutely shameful! These are Dr.'s with PhD's in chemistry, and they have no interest in AAS. They get paid to run their labs. Point is this: Who is respectable enough to say "yup, I verified that the lab is independent and accredited with no ties to anything remotely AAS and it's ancillaries"? Who wants to go to that lab and watch the analysis happen?

Perhaps I am just thinking out loud, IDK. I just think it is a sad day when we, band of brother, have developed such a sense of distrust for one another that tools which can actually help are so easily dismissed.

 

[Capt Forest]

Give millard all the details.

 

[Millard]

@BigAngus if you have access to an independent and accredited laboratory, by no means do I think you should be required to reveal the name of the lab. This is for the very reasons you cite. Anonymity serves a useful purpose.

But as you and many others who have chosen to keep the labs anonymous can attest, this inevitably invites questions about the credibility and motives of those vouching for the analyses.

Ideally, the independent and accredited lab would be the one to vouch for the analyses and interpretations.

I know very well how difficult this is for the circumstances in which consumers of black market AAS find themselves are far from ideal.

 

[BigAngus]

@BigAngus if you have access to an independent and accredited laboratory, by no means do I think you should be required to reveal the name of the lab. This is for the very reasons you cite. Anonymity serves a useful purpose.

But as you and many others who have chosen to keep the labs anonymous can attest, this inevitably invites questions about the credibility and motives of those vouching for the analyses.

Ideally, the independent and accredited lab would be the one to vouch for the analyses and interpretations.

I know very well how difficult this is for the circumstances in which consumers of black market AAS find themselves are far from ideal.

I agree with you 100%! The fact that I don't expose the labs creates a cloud of doubt....sad but true. While the lab vouching for their analysis would be ideal, i think we both know that they would be accused of ripping people off, not running the test and providing bogus results.

I have been accused of some pretty incredible stuff, and I'm just tired. it is impossible to prove something that HASN'T been done, and accusations just continue. But I feel if I just walk away the shady sources and their fanboys win and the competitive person in me will not allow that to happen.

You are welcome to have the website, email, phone number and address of the independent lab I use. I want nothing more than to be transparent. I have no hidden agenda. I am a gearhead just like most of the people on this board, and i'm happy just going back to that. Far less drama,

 

[pumpingiron22]

I enjoyed all the test that were coming through @ angus. I Believe it gives us much better insight. We were heading in the right direction. unfortunately people who have purchased and gained a little results will defend because of there egos getting hurt. The you have fan boys. Then you have the source who does not want to be jipped. Or be proven hes bunk.* The real truth is there is a high quality out . There that most be will not see unless we keep on the path we were on.

 

[iintensity]

Any updates?

Just wondering would it be possible for a total serum count be possible for compounds such as trenbolone?

You know how you have those urine test kits, would a lab be will to accept a sample and do something similar to a TT count?

 

[Burrr]

Another lab that apparently will mass spec steroids, at least a quantitative test.
http://www.expertox.com/

 

[Dr JIM]

@devildog93 and @bickel29 , Yes, the results must absolutely be repeated and confirmed.

For any given product, I agree that it is good to have a minimum of three different indviduals acquire samples independently. Unfortunately, in the absence of an identifiable, independent and accredited analytical lab, there will also be questions about who is performing or vouching for the the analyses. The use of anonymous labs doesn't help.

This means that multiple individuals would be needed for the lab analyses as well.

I'm surprised more people don't take advantage of labmax. There was a recent case where two MESO members reported some poor results on Anadrol pills (among other things) using labmax. It seemed like it would be quite easy for any of the (hundreds of) people who have purchased Anadrol from the same source to perform labmax test of the product in question. Why didn't this happen? Will it happen? It would definitely help answer questions about the reliability of labmax. Of course, independent mass specs of the pills would move toward the accuracy of labmax.

Millard you raise a very interesting point which is the use of LM as an analytical source.

Obviously the problem has been to date LM has not released ANY data that confirms or refutes its reliability as either a quantitative or or qualitative assay.

To that end would it be possible for the lab your using to cross reference their results to that of LM as a means of evaluating LM reliability?

 

[growing55]

If we are members here do we get some discount when sending in samples?? And i guess it doesn't matter what lab we send in? most will of course be UGL

 

[wedorecover]

Another member of the cult that is aa or na? I'm a member of aa.

I'm in Na I have 4 years in June

 

[Manny]

I'm in Na I have 4 years in June

That's rad man. Sorry took so long. Been off this train for a bit.

 

[drgreenthumb628]

For the lab testing on AL say it shows the results for test e at 305mg is that just the test e or is that also with the ester meaning the dose would be a little under 305. Sorry if my wording is not the best for this question

 

[Dr JIM]

AL is testing the VIAL CONTENTS which in this instance is testosterone enanthate.

The results are both qualitative
and quantitative. Meaning is T-e present and if so at what concentration.

 

[drgreenthumb628]

Would each shot than yeild 305 mg of test e if thats what it tested at or do you need to subtract the ester weight to see the exact amount your actuslly pinning