MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Stopping TRT, protocol
- Thread starter Exhortae
- Start date
MA11
Member
You'll do weekly blood tests?
Not in the beginning
I just did one yesterday, i am at 874 ng/dl
One before starting the hcg. I will start hcg when my levels will be less than 300 ng / dl
Then probably 2 during hcg therapy and another 2 during clomid:nolva therapy
I am quitting because i think vitamin D deficiency was actually why i had low T. The deficiency is fixed now and i feel a lot better now
readalot
Member
Some additional discussion on good ole "PCT" approaches.
Best wishes on the process.
I've done (1) cold turkey approach (dont recommend) and (2) HCG followed by AI for a few weeks approach. Better options out there than clomid.
Best wishes on the process.
I've done (1) cold turkey approach (dont recommend) and (2) HCG followed by AI for a few weeks approach. Better options out there than clomid.
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readalot
Member
Defy Medical's kitchen sink approach...
Discontinue testosterone
Start 300 IU hCG daily for 2 weeks
Stop hCG, start 25 mg enclomiphene daily for 6 weeks
0.125 mg anastrozole three times per week during both hCG and enclomiphene
Stop everything, followup labs with CBC, TT, FT E2, LH, SHBG, PRL
www.excelmale.com
I never tried this as I was able to recover to 80-90% of baseline TT/LH with above two approaches within 12 weeks. It sucked to be off so went back on lol.
Discontinue testosterone
Start 300 IU hCG daily for 2 weeks
Stop hCG, start 25 mg enclomiphene daily for 6 weeks
0.125 mg anastrozole three times per week during both hCG and enclomiphene
Stop everything, followup labs with CBC, TT, FT E2, LH, SHBG, PRL
Coming off TRT- Defy HPTA Reset Protocol
So HCG and enclomiphene start together immediately next day after last test pin? No, consecutively after stopping testosterone. I edited the post to clarify it.
www.excelmale.com
I never tried this as I was able to recover to 80-90% of baseline TT/LH with above two approaches within 12 weeks. It sucked to be off so went back on lol.
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Your socratic approach in that thread left me a little confused.Some additional discussion on good ole "PCT" approaches.
Best wishes on the process.
I've done (1) cold turkey approach (dont recommend) and (2) HCG followed by AI for a few weeks approach. Better options out there than clomid.
My understanding:
High test levels signal the pituitary gland (PG) to stop producing LH/FSH
LH is the signal for test production.
So for the cold turkey method:
Test level is lowered by aromatization and glucuronidation?
Once levels are low the PG eventually starts producing LH again.
Left with a time period very low test.
HCG is an LH agonist.
Which tells the testes to start producing test before the PG is actually producing LH itself.
I assume this still creates an environment where the PG will start producing again?
And is the point of AI the same here? Keep the levels from dropping too quickly to give the PG time to catch up?
And no one has mentioned kisspeptin which is a LH/FSH secretagogue. Which seems to me the best way to go but is it just not many people are aware of this tool yet?
readalot
Member
Yeah, that was a bit over the top. My bad. Agreed on your comments.
HCG should effect intratesticular T production and E2 via aromatase. Those will feedback to H&P.
Nice refs below.
Chapter 12 - Hypothalamo-Pituitary Unit, Testis, and Male Accessory Organs
Read this chapter. Chapter 12 - Hypothalamo-Pituitary Unit, Testis, and Male Accessory Organs https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780323479127000123?via%3Dihub From https://www.sciencedirect.com/book/9780323479127/yen-and-jaffes-reproductive-endocrinology
www.excelmale.com
Drop the hCG and kick in the AI to reduce negative feedback from E2 to H&P. Assist H&P to do its thing and get the LH flowing.
I've tried AI montherapy prior to TRT.
Great point. I have no experience with it, but fortunately cataceous is always way ahead with strong theoretical and experimental approach.
Love that man.
Kisspeptin-10 Instead of HCG?
Howdy y'all, As I've posted about in the past, I've been taking HCG Monotherapy for low T for about seven years now with good results - my last bloodwork had my total T at 707ng/dL with no change to my total weekly dosage since I started in 2017 (just tweaks to my dosing protocol)...
www.excelmale.com
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Thanks, just to make sure I understand you here.
Hcg is increasing aromatization above the cold turkey approach?
And high E2 suppresses LH as well?
readalot
Member
Most of these PCT protocols kick in the hCG after you are presumed to be back to normal serum TT/FT levels (if using exogenous Test). Washout the AAS/Test and then add hCG. So adding hCG will push your E2 above cold turkey at same time point in the process.
So idea is to get the testicles going and minimize E2 negative feedback as a 1/2 combo.
From the reference shared:
From these data, we conclude that in the human male, estrogen has dual sites of negative feedback, acting at the hypothalamus to decrease GnRH pulse frequency and at the pituitary to decrease responsiveness to GnRH.
My point in all this was to show there are many ways to do PCT and time seems to correct alot of this by itself even in someone shut down on Test for years. However, the recovery period is no fun cold turkey so AI or SERM with or without a bout of hCG makes the whole thing much less miserable in my experience.
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I've got them both saved to my reading list now.
readalot
Member
Great text (Y&J). See posts below that as well for some fun stuff.
UncleBuns
Well-known Member
I would not wait to start HCG. Start today and up it to about 1500 - 2000 weekly. Injection at least e3d. EOD is better though.
Even though i am using testosterone undecanoate and that it will take probably 3-4 months for the washout period ?
UncleBuns
Well-known Member
The point of HCG is it keep your balls "awake" on TRT/cycle or to "wake them up" after a cycle. Ideally if someone thinks they might eventually come off TRT they would take HCG the entire time on TRT. The longer length of time you balls are inactive the more difficult it is to wake them up. Even though HCG will not have your balls working 100% with the test U in your body If you take enough it will make your balls active to some degree. As the test slowly washes out the HCG will help the transition process and will be more effective as the test U clears.
I would start it now and use higher doses.
