SubQ vs IM injection

[Tdeck81]

I was initially going to utilize IM injections for my self prescribed TRT. I then saw people referencing a study that showed SubQ injections were more beneficial. Higher test levels, lower estradiol and hematocrit levels. After seeing this, and having a couple hundred insulin needles, I decided to go the SubQ route. Just for reference…my first time with peds, using test c 250, starting low with 1/4 ml Monday/Thursday to see how I handle it for a few weeks then bumping to 1/2 ml twice a week

I understand I can inject a higher volume with an IM injection, but I’m not at that point. Am I missing anything that should factor in to the equation? Also curious if I can inject deca the same way when I get to that stage. Thanks in advance

 

[RockyP]

I was initially going to utilize IM injections for my self prescribed TRT. I then saw people referencing a study that showed SubQ injections were more beneficial. Higher test levels, lower estradiol and hematocrit levels. After seeing this, and having a couple hundred insulin needles, I decided to go the SubQ route. Just for reference…my first time with peds, using test c 250, starting low with 1/4 ml Monday/Thursday to see how I handle it for a few weeks then bumping to 1/2 ml twice a week

I understand I can inject a higher volume with an IM injection, but I’m not at that point. Am I missing anything that should factor in to the equation? Also curious if I can inject deca the same way when I get to that stage. Thanks in advance

I'm very interested to hear what others have experienced on this also. I do believe "Vigorous Steve" did a recent video about injecting a full cycle all Subcutaneous (much higher weekly volumes than 1/4 ml). he did speak about lumps, etc. but for small volumes I do think it could work. It may depend on the carrier oil. Only way to know is to try.

As an aside, if it does work, it will make microdosing (things like tren 5 - 10 mg daily) a lot easier.

 

[dinfar1337]

I'm very interested to hear what others have experienced on this also. I do believe "Vigorous Steve" did a recent video about injecting a full cycle all Subcutaneous (much higher weekly volumes than 1/4 ml). he did speak about lumps, etc. but for small volumes I do think it could work. It may depend on the carrier oil. Only way to know is to try.

As an aside, if it does work, it will make microdosing (things like tren 5 - 10 mg daily) a lot easier.

you can do around 0.5ml - 1ml per subq injection. defiently can work on both cycle and cruise.

 

[Tdeck81]

I'm very interested to hear what others have experienced on this also. I do believe "Vigorous Steve" did a recent video about injecting a full cycle all Subcutaneous (much higher weekly volumes than 1/4 ml). he did speak about lumps, etc. but for small volumes I do think it could work. It may depend on the carrier oil. Only way to know is to try.

As an aside, if it does work, it will make microdosing (things like tren 5 - 10 mg daily) a lot easier.

From what I’ve read, SubQ is good up to a couple ml per site. I know I’ll be in the clear as far as volume goes but am curious if there is anything else to really consider. I also did see people mention small lumps, but I think they clear quickly

 

[RockyP]

you can do around 0.5ml - 1ml per subq injection. defiently can work on both cycle and cruise.

That's great to hear. My next run of tren I will try this (ends up being 0.1 ml (10 units on slin pin) every other day.

 

[Tdeck81]

you can do around 0.5ml - 1ml per subq injection. defiently can work on both cycle and cruise.

Do you know if this applies to all compounds? I don’t want to assume the uptake is the same regardless of which compound

 

[wldb33rz]

I'm only 6 weeks in and just got blood drawn on Friday so results not back yet, but I've been enjoying the subq injections. Even with GSO as the carrier from the TRT script, it's simple and fast as I'm only doing 12.5 units on the 0.3ml syringe for 175mg/week. Note: I was prescribed 200/week which I think is a bit much for me. So I'll see where 175 lands me and there's enough time to adjust before the 10-week check in. I'd like to keep the prescribed 200mg/week just to speed up refill time and all that.

I will note that the injections are very smooth. I have tried, arms, thighs, abdomen, and upper outter thigh/glute area. I like glute area best for test/oil based shots since I do other peptides and meds that are water based, abdomen and arm is where those go and it's not great to mix the oil and water based injections in the same area; since the oil will likely hang around for a bit longer than the very quickly dispursing and absorbed oils.

The benefits for me that led me to chosing this is while it's not actually higher test levels, it's higher stable levels; lower peaks and higher troughs. So the peak wont be near as high with a 2x or 3x a week injection IM, but the overall levels will be more stable. I'm also worried about the near constant issues I've heard on podcasts and read both here and other forums about scar tissue buildup over time using IM injections creating issues of mobility restrictions and potential pain/difficulty injecting as that scar tissue builds up.

I'll keep you posted, I expect blood results either today or tomorrow based on past experiences with this lab.

Once this 10-week check in is done, I'll be switching over to my UGL supply and saving up the pharma vials for future use.

 

[wldb33rz]

Do you know if this applies to all compounds? I don’t want to assume the uptake is the same regardless of which compound

Recommended with oils is no more than .3ml. However, your tolerance may vary and carrier oils make a huge difference. I calculated out and staying within .3ml I can do approx 650mg/week with daily .3ml injections, still leaving plenty of room. 1g/week is only 48units at 300mg/ml concentrations. So there's plenty of room, even for higher dose cycles; you may just need to do multiple injections if you're doing multiple compounds.

It's more the carrier oil that is the restriction than the compound itself though. Castor Oil, for example is very thick and will likely knot up for a bit vs MCT which is very thin and will be absorbed quickly.

 

[Eddie.]

Subc to me is smooth, never had any problems. I’ve done test, primo, mast, tren etc so not only suitable for test but for every compound. Personally up until 0,7ml per shot i didn’t get any lumps or redness or whatever side effect. The only difference is the slower absorption. I’ve used also different carrier oils, sesame, grapeseed, mct and castor oil. All great. I only recommend doing glutes and hips though, never in the stomach-belly.

 

[RockyP]

Subc to me is smooth, never had any problems. I’ve done test, primo, mast, tren etc so not only suitable for test but for every compound. Personally up until 0,7ml per shot i didn’t get any lumps or redness or whatever side effect. The only difference is the slower absorption. I’ve used also different carrier oils, sesame, grapeseed, mct and castor oil. All great. I only recommend doing glutes and hips though, never in the stomach-belly.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Silly question - why not abdomen fat?

 

[dinfar1337]

Do you know if this applies to all compounds? I don’t want to assume the uptake is the same regardless of which compound

generally testosterone - eq etc can go high up to 1ml subq for most people.

thick oils like tren i would stay safer around 0.5ml

also depends if you're doing subq in stomach/quad it can hold alot, and if u do subq some random place you're probably safer around 0.5ml mark

 

[dinfar1337]

Recommended with oils is no more than .3ml. However, your tolerance may vary and carrier oils make a huge difference. I calculated out and staying within .3ml I can do approx 650mg/week with daily .3ml injections, still leaving plenty of room. 1g/week is only 48units at 300mg/ml concentrations. So there's plenty of room, even for higher dose cycles; you may just need to do multiple injections if you're doing multiple compounds.

It's more the carrier oil that is the restriction than the compound itself though. Castor Oil, for example is very thick and will likely knot up for a bit vs MCT which is very thin and will be absorbed quickly.

where did you find the recommend? because i am finding recommend pharma guidelines at 1ml for testosterone! 0.3ml is nothing lmao

 

[RockyP]

This is great info guys - irregardless of ester, I will microdose all anabolics (aside from test), and usually am looking at something like 0.05 - 0.25 ml per pin, so this sounds very promising.

 

[dinfar1337]

This is great info guys - irregardless of ester, I will microdose all anabolics (aside from test), and usually am looking at something like 0.05 - 0.25 ml per pin, so this sounds very promising.

even if you exceed the 0.5ml-1ml recommendation im giving you, or the 0.7ml the other credible guy is giving you. you can just inject 2x subq instead of im which is also a good option. like pro bodybuilders switch muscles injecting into because each muscle is only good for so many ml

 

[wldb33rz]

where did you find the recommend? because i am finding recommend pharma guidelines at 1ml for testosterone! 0.3ml is nothing lmao

Based on recommendations. Vigorous Steve mentioned that, and it was the common recommendation on TRT clinic sites when I did the digging as well as when I was looking for specifics using ChatGPT. I asked for sources and a few papers on pubmed asked for that. The general concensus is to start at .3ml as an upper limit - which is plenty for TRT, but you also wont be mixing your compounds and doing a one and done shot either. Depends on your concentration as to how useful that's going to be.

Your individual tolerance will vary, but larger volumes, especially with thicker oils will likely create knots/lumps as the oil takes a few days to fully absorb, larger volumes will create larger knots. I personally have been seeking out MCT as the carrier of choice as that can clear in a day.

Also .3ml daily is wildly different than say .3ml EOD or 3x week. You can get doses in within those constraints. And of course, you can test your tolerance with higher volumes. 1ml may be very doable with MCT. I know with water based injections I tolerated 2ml quite well. YMMV though.

 

[dinfar1337]

Based on recommendations. Vigorous Steve mentioned that, and it was the common recommendation on TRT clinic sites when I did the digging as well as when I was looking for specifics using ChatGPT. I asked for sources and a few papers on pubmed asked for that. The general concensus is to start at .3ml as an upper limit - which is plenty for TRT, but you also wont be mixing your compounds and doing a one and done shot either. Depends on your concentration as to how useful that's going to be.

Your individual tolerance will vary, but larger volumes, especially with thicker oils will likely create knots/lumps as the oil takes a few days to fully absorb, larger volumes will create larger knots. I personally have been seeking out MCT as the carrier of choice as that can clear in a day.

Also .3ml daily is wildly different than say .3ml EOD or 3x week. You can get doses in within those constraints. And of course, you can test your tolerance with higher volumes. 1ml may be very doable with MCT. I know with water based injections I tolerated 2ml quite well. YMMV though.

chatgpt and vigirous steve is dogshit.

Endocrine Society Guidelines says 1ml per subq injection

Pubmed/Clinical Studies says 1ml per subq injection

the fda and the pharmacies with their paper that comes with pharma test says upto 1ml per subq injection. just rotate spots

 

[wldb33rz]

chatgpt and vigirous steve is dogshit.

Endocrine Society Guidelines says 1ml per subq injection

Pubmed/Clinical Studies says 1ml per subq injection

the fda and the pharmacies with their paper that comes with pharma test says upto 1ml per subq injection. just rotate spots

Endochrine society also suggests 300 as the bottom end for TRT consideration too. It can be up to 1ml, but again, guidelines are just that, recommendations; not hard rules. YMMV. Oil carriers are different than water based, and water based is good for up to 2ml, however the general recommendation is no more than 1ml; and I see a lot of people saying they dont like anything more than .5ml for water based. Oil is going to be lower for efficacy reasons because of the slower absorbtion and clearing of the oil within adipose tissue vs muscle.

Also, ChatGPT didnt do the recommendation. I always ask it to back up it's reasoning with sources so I can gauge the accuracy of the recommendation and ensure that it's not hallucinating. Hence, it referenced several studies on pubmed where the info was actually a more common consensus. It's a tool that is easier to use these days than normal search engines because of a whole bunch of enshitification in tech.

I will also note that recoomendations from medical communities are usually showing the upper end of what is reasonable to expect. Many will not tolerate 1ml of oils in a subq injection. Hence the general recommendation is to start low and assess your tolerance.

 

[Tdeck81]

This is excellent information. When I read the .5-2ml max per site I didn’t take into account water based vs oil. 1 ml sounds more reasonable. Adding another injection day a week or using multiple injection sites makes it a simple fix if I ever need a higher volume.

 

[dinfar1337]

Endochrine society also suggests 300 as the bottom end for TRT consideration too. It can be up to 1ml, but again, guidelines are just that, recommendations; not hard rules. YMMV. Oil carriers are different than water based, and water based is good for up to 2ml, however the general recommendation is no more than 1ml; and I see a lot of people saying they dont like anything more than .5ml for water based. Oil is going to be lower for efficacy reasons because of the slower absorbtion and clearing of the oil within adipose tissue vs muscle.

theres 100% slower absorption its subq.

but you can comfortably just inject everyday and it will balance out eventually. until you reach x ml everyday

and people not handling well as i said, i believe quads and stomach can hold upto 1ml in some people, other injection sites 0.5ml is safer

 

[Tdeck81]

Subc to me is smooth, never had any problems. I’ve done test, primo, mast, tren etc so not only suitable for test but for every compound. Personally up until 0,7ml per shot i didn’t get any lumps or redness or whatever side effect. The only difference is the slower absorption. I’ve used also different carrier oils, sesame, grapeseed, mct and castor oil. All great. I only recommend doing glutes and hips though, never in the stomach-belly.

I did my first injection via the stomach, similar to an insulin injection. Why do you prefer glutes and hips?