Substituting masteron for primo in TRT+. Will I need an AI?

[jtmarlin]

I like to keep my E2 in the 20 range on TRT bc of what I've heard Dr Rand say about prostate and E2 long term so I take 1/2 mg anastrozole along with my E3.5d 100mg Test cyp injection. I've tried TRT+ with primobolan at 100mg per week along with the 200mg test cyp and NO ANASTROZOLE. I like how I feel on it but my lipids get toasted a bit and my E2 drops to single digits which I think is bad for long term health. I'm going to try to run 100mg of Masteron E per week instead of the primobolan to see how I feel and see if I get better lipids outcome. Question, will I need the AI to keep my E2 in the 20 range or will masteron have a bit of E2 lowering effect like primo?

The last thing I want is E2 running wild in the 60+ along with a DHT derivative. That's a recipe for bad prostate outcomes I fear.

 

[mochul]

Mast will affect your lipids as much as primo does. Mast does not lower e2 but can mask e2 sides like water retention. They work differently for everybody, so try it out for yourself.
You should not use any ai or other steroids on true trt levels if health concerns you.

 

[jtmarlin]

Mast will affect your lipids as much as primo does. Mast does not lower e2 but can mask e2 sides like water retention. They work differently for everybody, so try it out for yourself.
You should not use any ai or other steroids on true trt levels if health concerns you.

"Health" is a broad term. So are "true" TRT levels.

Is 10 extra pounds of muscle mass and better recovery worth trading for slightly worse lipids? I think long term health could flip a coin on that one. And that's the difference between 100mg test per week and 200mg + AI.

 

[mochul]

"Health" is a broad term. So are "true" TRT levels.

Is 10 extra pounds of muscle mass and better recovery worth trading for slightly worse lipids? I think long term health could flip a coin on that one. And that's the difference between 100mg test per week and 200mg + AI.

It’s your choice. But you can gain more from 200 test with ai than 100 test plus 100 of either primo or mast.

 

[bighunanballs]

You'll need to run bloods before and after to dial in what you are working towards. No one will be able to guess the outcomes at x dosages of said compounds. Do bloodwork

 

[LiftAR]

Why not just take trt alone and save all the gear you want as an "add on" for any future blast? Running mast or primo on top of trt is essentially just a low dose cycle

 

[jtmarlin]

Why not just take trt alone and save all the gear you want as an "add on" for any future blast? Running mast or primo on top of trt is essentially just a low dose cycle

I can't get the libido that I want without the primo. I've tried TRT so many different ways. So many doses, so many frequencies, AI no AI and the only way I get what I want is with the primo.

 

[jankoch]

"Health" is a broad term. So are "true" TRT levels.

Nope.

True TRT levels = you are in the TOP-MID range of testosterone,(below the upper limit). This is not up for debate. For most people to not need AI they need to be in the upper medium range.

TRT for hardcore bodybuilders: its not true TRT they just use test only and lower the dose which usually puts them outside the range.

It can vary by person to person, since there are outliers. It's safe to say 200mg for the vast majority of people is way too much and put them over the range. Also its a dose that likely makes you take an AI.
Some people feel the best on 80mg test cyp a week.

So first, with labwork you need to know what true TRT levels are for you. And stop with this true trt is a broad term. its fucking not.

 

[xrayphoton13]

You say health is a broad term so you're okay with bad lipids but then you won't go without an AI? I feel like these are opposing each other simply because having an e2 of 20 on trt is completely unnecessary and AIs have their own health problems. Whoever dr. Rand is is working on outdated info or interpreting things wrong . You'd have better health and libido with no AI and a higher e2. Your e2 won't get crazy high on trt unless you are extremely overweight. Trt should never require an AI or your dose is too high IMO

 

[LiftAR]

I can't get the libido that I want without the primo. I've tried TRT so many different ways. So many doses, so many frequencies, AI no AI and the only way I get what I want is with the primo.

You should be feeling great on trt alone. Perhaps your e2 is too low, drop the ai and give your lipids a rest. I take 200mgs just once a week, which is suboptimal for stable levels and I still don't get problems with libido

 

[Tbaz192]

I believe OP is referring to the extra mental sides of your libido from the primo/other gear. When on cycle or other compounds, I personally get a different kind of libido than just a normal high testosterone libido. It feels different & stronger, freakier?
Others get this way as well.

It’s from having another compound in the mix lol.
You unfortunately will not achieve that just on TRT.

Unless I’m way off here. Then disregard this reply.

 

[Ghoul]

Why not just take trt alone and save all the gear you want as an "add on" for any future blast? Running mast or primo on top of trt is essentially just a low dose cycle

Anything below a gram a week total is no longer a cycle.

It's

TRT+
Sports TRT
TRTMax
or
UltraTRT

 

[UncleBuns]

Mast will not change your E2 level. If you want the same E2 as before take the same AI dose for that amount of test. Mast will block E2's effect on some tissues though. You may feel like E2 is lower even when it's the same # as before.

I would try the test + AI as before and add the mast. Pay attention to how I feel. Get E2 draw and any other markers I'm concerned with at 4ish weeks. Go from there.

Personally 150mg Mast on top of my TRT protocol dose not change my E2, SHB, or any health markers.

 

[jtmarlin]

Mast will not change your E2 level. If you want the same E2 as before take the same AI dose for that amount of test. Mast will block E2's effect on some tissues though. You may feel like E2 is lower even when it's the same # as before.

I would try the test + AI as before and add the mast. Pay attention to how I feel. Get E2 draw and any other markers I'm concerned with at 4ish weeks. Go from there.

Personally 150mg Mast on top of my TRT protocol dose not change my E2, SHB, or any health markers.

This is a type of answer I was looking for. Appreciate your thought. I'm hopeful that by using masteron instead of primo that my E2 will remain higher and this perhaps have better lipids profile especially HDL. I know primo wrecks this.

 

[UncleBuns]

This is a type of answer I was looking for. Appreciate your thought. I'm hopeful that by using masteron instead of primo that my E2 will remain higher and this perhaps have better lipids profile especially HDL. I know primo wrecks this.

Lipids and other health markers are very individual. Some guys lipids are trashed by Mast. Mine are fine at lower dose. A number of guys report that Primo is fairly mild on their lipids. Have to try the compound and get bloods to see for yourself.

Good luck with the experiment! I love mast and it agrees with me and fits my goals well.

 

[LiftAR]

Anything below a gram a week total is no longer a cycle.

It's

TRT+
Sports TRT
TRTMax
or
UltraTRT

Hahaha. A few years back I'd have agreed with this. But when I'm chilling on "real TRT" and I'm all about maintaining, I know I can let loose a little over the weekends and get away with it more as far as health goes. If I stayed on supraphysiological doses all the time something is going to go wrong soon enough.

 

[1Megaman]

Mast will affect your lipids as much as primo does. Mast does not lower e2 but can mask e2 sides like water retention. They work differently for everybody, so try it out for yourself.
You should not use any ai or other steroids on true trt levels if health concerns you.

Not true for everyone, primo up to 400mg doesn’t move my lipids at all mast at 200mg elevated my ldl. Not a lot but it did move it. But he is right everyone is different you need to try it and pull bloods.

 

[amazonas]

I am in the exact boat as you OP, been on primo/test TRT for 2 years now and i can't keep on going anymore. Mentally i feel great, but primo completely kills my libido regardless of dosage and e2 levels. I did test only for TRT, but as others already mentioned, it doesn't feel the same at all without a DHT on top. Once you are used to this, it's extremely hard to revert back to test only. I was thinking of doing 150mg test 75 mg masteron and see with blood work how it affects my body.

 

[UncleBuns]

I am in the exact boat as you OP, been on primo/test TRT for 2 years now and i can't keep on going anymore. Mentally i feel great, but primo completely kills my libido regardless of dosage and e2 levels. I did test only for TRT, but as others already mentioned, it doesn't feel the same at all without a DHT on top. Once you are used to this, it's extremely hard to revert back to test only. I was thinking of doing 150mg test 75 mg masteron and see with blood work how it affects my body.

How long did you try test only for? If you've been adding primo onto TRT for a long time it could take months to re calibrate to a good baseline on test only. Your body and mind will settle in with whatever regimen you give. It if you change it you may need to it give it some time for your body to settle in to the new regimen/baseline.

 

[amazonas]

How long did you try test only for? If you've been adding primo onto TRT for a long time it could take months to re calibrate to a good baseline on test only. Your body and mind will settle in with whatever regimen you give. It if you change it you may need to it give it some time for your body to settle in to the new regimen/baseline.

I think you are absolutely right, because i was even having a hard time achieving boners when the primo cleared out of my body, and started getting a bit depressed.

Of course i took blood work and everything including test, e2 and prolactin showed normal so i was so confused. But it made me think of the people jumping on finasteride and nuking their DHT levels and end up with these side effects, it made sense to me.

I added in the primo again at only 75mg per week and i was back to 100% normal function. I was on Test E alone for only 6 weeks. You are right that i might need much longer for my body to re adjust.