Supplements for Mad Gaining

[Andrew Genzel]

Hey everyone, I'm 6'8 and only 185 Pounds.

Earlier I was planning on taking steroids however dropped the idea. You can checkout my previous thread.

I gotta make some real gains. Will be hitting the gym now. I already have bought a couple of gainers.
Universal Mass Gainer 3100 10 LBs
Muscle Juice Gainer 10 LBs
What I'm planning is
3000 Calories
250 G protein for the first month
and then I'll go to 5000 calories and 400G Protein.
I've no clue about Carbs and Fats. Can somebody help me with how much intake do i require exactly?

After these I'll be running protein stacks with Creatine, Glutamine, PreWorkout and BCAAs for a couple of months with real heavy diet. How does this sounds? Can I expect some good gains?

Open to changes. Welcoming advices.

 

[TheNeWkID]

Bro. In my opinion it would be safer to drop drugs like preworkout/creatine and instead run a 10 testosterone only cycle. All those oral chems are rough on your system friend. It's tomato tomatoo. But a lot of guys will run these "pro hormones" not mandated at all and at the end they are more damaging then a small hormone cycle anyway.

 

[Docd187123]

Bro. In my opinion it would be safer to drop drugs like preworkout/creatine and instead run a 10 testosterone only cycle. All those oral chems are rough on your system friend. It's tomato tomatoo. But a lot of guys will run these "pro hormones" not mandated at all and at the end they are more damaging then a small hormone cycle anyway.

Creatine is rough on the system? It's probably the most studied BBing supplement out there and one of the safest.

He's talking about regular OTC supplements like protein, creatine, etc. Please explain how these are more dangerous than running a cycle?

OP: you don't need all those supplements. You need steak and potatoes and lots of them. How much carbs and fat you need is based on personal preference. Pick an amount for each which when added with your protein exceeds your TDEE in calories. Spend money on steaks and chicken not all the supplements. A basic whey protein and creatine is all you really could use plus a PWO if you need some energy.

 

[Andrew Genzel]

I'm thinking of 650g of Carbs and 75g of Fats. How does that sounds?
I'll be mainly eating Chicken Breasts and Egg whites.

 

[Docd187123]

Up the fats to around 100g a day and that looks fine. Just try to eat as diverse as possible to get a full spectrum of micros and other nutrients.

 

[TheNeWkID]

Ok. Creatine monohydrate is specifically tough on your kidneys.
It has also been proven that the body stores a large part of creatine naturally. You can only absorb a very small part of the stuff when u drink it. The rest goes through the system and right back out. Wasting it.

As far as other supplements being safe. Read the warning label on preworkout mixes. Those fucking things make you feel like your smoking crack during your workout for a reason. It's not cause they are good for you. I promise.

See below link;

https://drinknatureswater.wordpress.com/2014/06/09/caution-creatine-supplements-can-cause-kidney-damage/.

Now I don't want to get into a drawn out debate about this because there will be divided parties. Side a: creatine users
And side b: non creatine users. There are plenty of places that say it is not harsh on kidneys. So it is a tomato tomatoo type of thing. I firmly believe and stand by a 12 week test cycle is safer than loading up on a bunch of oral over the counters. Just my opinion

 

[TheNeWkID]

After doing further research I will can conclude that creatine can be safely used if used at proper doses and not in excess. People with pre-determined kidney problems are the ones that end up with issues and should avoid creatine completely.

 

[Docd187123]

Ok. Creatine monohydrate is specifically tough on your kidneys.

No it is not.

"For those with healthy kidneys: No. For those with impaired kidney function, it is highly unlikely but one should still check with their medical doctor.

Please see our Creatine rubric for human clinical studies on the kidney. The net result was that even with one kidney, creatine had no negative effect on the kidneys. This is a topic that has been replicated numerous times in different populations by different researchers, and yet not a single peer-reviewed study or case report has surfaced where creatine is the causative factor behind kidney damage.

In one study, an individual with one kidney that was slightly damaged was loaded with 20g of Creatine a day and no problems were found.[1]

There is some confusion regarding the kidneys with the metabolite (waste product) of creatine, called 'creatinine', which is also a diagnostic criteria for kidney problems. This is a case of a supplement giving a 'false positive' and is in no way harmful, and can be read up more on our creatine disambiguation section."

http://examine.com/faq/does-creatine-cause-kidney-problems/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18780799/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15795816/

Having a Pre-existing kidney condition MAY exacerbate kidney problems but even that doesn't happen often.

It has also been proven that the body stores a large part of creatine naturally. You can only absorb a very small part of the stuff when u drink it. The rest goes through the system and right back out. Wasting it.

And that's why you only need 3-5g/day to fully saturate muscles with creatine. Anymore is just simply not needed.

As far as other supplements being safe. Read the warning label on preworkout mixes. Those fucking things make you feel like your smoking crack during your workout for a reason. It's not cause they are good for you. I promise.

Everything has a warning label nowadays to help protect against lawsuits. PWO drinks don't feel anything like crack, that's a pretty large exaggeration. It's not bc they're inherently bad for you either I promise.

See below link;

https://drinknatureswater.wordpress.com/2014/06/09/caution-creatine-supplements-can-cause-kidney-damage/.

Now I don't want to get into a drawn out debate about this because there will be divided parties. Side a: creatine users
And side b: non creatine users. There are plenty of places that say it is not harsh on kidneys. So it is a tomato tomatoo type of thing. I firmly believe and stand by a 12 week test cycle is safer than loading up on a bunch of oral over the counters. Just my opinion

What I cannot fathom is how you claim creatine causes kidney damage, which there's no concrete evidence showing this happens, yet a cycle of steroids taken in supraphysiological levels which has evidence showing renal function impairment is advocated??? You don't think blasting test affects the kidneys? You don't think the adex or aromasin taken alongside effects kidneys? What about HCG, nolva, clomid? You're advocating taking 5-6 different prescription drugs over a creatine supplement?

 

[TheNeWkID]

Well first off you will see that I reposted below and restated that facts as I read them for myself. I was given bad information and after pasting a link I went to medical websites and reposted fact. You are correct regarding healthy kidneys. It will effect unhealthy ones. But correct is correct. Your correct.
However
your throwing in a bunch of drugs that all people don't necessarily need to run a low dose testosterone cycle. Would you not agree that most studies on testosterone and aas are done and bodybuilding levels. I disagree totally if your going to tell me that running a high end trt dose at 180 mgs a week for say 12 weeks and coming off with clomid alone(been done by many people successfully) is going to harm your kidneys. There is zero evidence to support your theory. If that was true half the people on this website would be dead of renal failure doc. I weighed 167 pounds when I got pharm grade Watson cyp. Enduced trt dosages combined with proper diet/sleep/exercise/quitting tobacco and 10 weeks in I am tipping scale at 190. Where you get that I am telling someone to run 5,6,7 drugs is beyond me. Please quote that anywhere in this post.
Preworkout drinks/creatine/other supplements imo can be all avoided with proper diet and workout. I think we can both agree on that fact. Now if he needs to bulk up quickly I would suggest the above(once his own proper research is done obviously) as a starting point. I guess where I am coming from is seeing way to many people gobble down supps and "pro hormones" so they can stay away from "steroids" Taking a bunch of unapproved drugs and god knows what sold in a capsule to get big and stay "off steroids" can often be worse than steroids themselves due to all the oral nature of these drugs. At any rate. Your the doctor. I popped off without my facts inline and you put me in check.
Thank you for that.
But doc- preworkout drinks? Cocaine in a bottle meets nausea town. Tell me I am wrong there? Work with me doc

 

[Docd187123]

Well first off you will see that I reposted below and restated that facts as I read them for myself. I was given bad information and after pasting a link I went to medical websites and reposted fact. You are correct regarding healthy kidneys. It will effect unhealthy ones. But correct is correct. Your correct.

I began responding before I saw your other post.

However
your throwing in a bunch of drugs that all people don't necessarily need to run a low dose testosterone cycle.

Please show me bloodwork of someone on a blast not needing an AI to control estrogen or not using SERMs for PCT and how that affected the outcome of HPTA restoration. Until you do I disagree that these drugs aren't needed and so does the bloodwork.

Would you not agree that most studies on testosterone and aas are done and bodybuilding levels.

No I disagree. Giving supraphysiological levels of test and/or other ass poses ethical considerations to the researchers. Getting such studies approved would be vey difficult. Conversely running studies on TRT patients is much easier.

I disagree totally if your going to tell me that running a high end trt dose at 180 mgs a week for say 12 weeks and coming off with clomid alone(been done by many people successfully) is going to harm your kidneys. There is zero evidence to support your theory.

And what would that "cycle"'exactly achieve? If it's a TRT dose then it's simply replacing what should be made endogenously. That's not a blast and only those who are hypogonadal or truly are novices in the gym would be able to perceive any benefit of such a "cycle". There's enough evidence to make it a point and more than can be shown against creatine.

If that was true half the people on this website would be dead of renal failure doc. I weighed 167 pounds when I got pharm grade Watson cyp. Enduced trt dosages combined with proper diet/sleep/exercise/quitting tobacco and 10 weeks in I am tipping scale at 190. Where you get that I am telling someone to run 5,6,7 drugs is beyond me. Please quote that anywhere in this post.

And if creatine was so damaging maybe a 1/16, probably less, of he whole country would be dead of renal failure.....

You've shown you gained weight by going from 167 to 190 but What exactly does that mean?

A cycle of test will require an AI, HCG should be used, as well as SERMs for pct. This is a basic test cycle...what you're advocating.

Preworkout drinks/creatine/other supplements imo can be all avoided with proper diet and workout. I think we can both agree on that fact. Now if he needs to bulk up quickly I would suggest the above(once his own proper research is done obviously) as a starting point. I guess where I am coming from is seeing way to many people gobble down supps and "pro hormones" so they can stay away from "steroids" Taking a bunch of unapproved drugs and god knows what sold in a capsule to get big and stay "off steroids" can often be worse than steroids themselves due to all the oral nature of these drugs. At any rate. Your the doctor. I popped off without my facts inline and you put me in check.
Thank you for that.
But doc- preworkout drinks? Cocaine in a bottle meets nausea town. Tell me I am wrong there? Work with me doc

Most OTC are harmless. Some can be dangerous I'd bet sure but you cannot compare the safety of things like creatine and that of steroids and all they entail. PH are a different class to me not to be lumped in with regular supplements.

I'm not a doctor and you didn't pop off. You stated your opinion and I'm stating mine. Nothing wrong with that and if ppl benefit from this all the better.

 

[TheNeWkID]

Doc. Your going way out of the realm here. I never said he didn't need an AI. I am not going to tell someone what they need for e2 without seeing blood/conversion ratio. Yes. They would need at that dose we can guess aromasin 12.5 mg every other day. That's a guess. I didn't go that far in to depth. But I also didn't say he needed hcg,nolva,clomid etc " 5-6 drugs like you said I did. The drugs can be taken on a minimum level/scale for health reasons.

If your going to tell me that a 33 ur old male cannot achieve astounding results on 180 mg a week of test I am gonna tell you you are crazy. I am living proof of it. I have gear heads in the gym telling me I'm running all kinds of drugs due to my gains and they are all wrong. I am at around 180 mg weekly. I certainly was not hypog before I started takin the test. I would bet anyone in here that if you took a 160 lb 32 yr old male and gave him 180 mg weekly combined with hi cal diet/high protein/great workout/great sleep regimite/casein protein in middle of the night he will grow like a fucking weed. There is no doubts. with 180mg of test in system all the synthesis is there to grow. Grant it you might get the mI'd cycle blues(I got em now) but I am growing a lot. I'm not trying to argue with a doctor. That's like a lawyer trying to put a judge in check. . I ain't gonna try to outsmart you doc. I know I can't. But I love to argue lol. At any rate. Your telling the guy be natural and grow the right way. I stand behind that and agree. I will also tell you that I was wrong about the kidneys and you plumbed me up. Thanks. But 180 mg of Watson cyp is enough to make a guy put on serious lbs quick if he hits it hard enough
Too much to edit. I see now where you said you were not a doctor. Sorry. Even better. Your at least smart for a meat head. Good for you brother. I love smart meat heads.
Oh yea.
Test 180 mg weekly
Aromasin eod
Clomid 3-4 weeks
Not the classiest cycle. But it has worked for many. Very low/oral/androgen ratio. And fairly safe? Would you not agree

 

[Docd187123]

Doc. Your going way out of the realm here. I never said he didn't need an AI. I am not going to tell someone what they need for e2 without seeing blood/conversion ratio. Yes. They would need at that dose we can guess aromasin 12.5 mg every other day. That's a guess. I didn't go that far in to depth. But I also didn't say he needed hcg,nolva,clomid etc " 5-6 drugs like you said I did. The drugs can be taken on a minimum level/scale for health reasons.

If your going to tell me that a 33 ur old male cannot achieve astounding results on 180 mg a week of test I am gonna tell you you are crazy. I am living proof of it. I have gear heads in the gym telling me I'm running all kinds of drugs due to my gains and they are all wrong. I am at around 180 mg weekly. I certainly was not hypog before I started takin the test. I would bet anyone in here that if you took a 160 lb 32 yr old male and gave him 180 mg weekly combined with hi cal diet/high protein/great workout/great sleep regimite/casein protein in middle of the night he will grow like a fucking weed. There is no doubts. with 180mg of test in system all the synthesis is there to grow. Grant it you might get the mI'd cycle blues(I got em now) but I am growing a lot. I'm not trying to argue with a doctor. That's like a lawyer trying to put a judge in check. . I ain't gonna try to outsmart you doc. I know I can't. But I love to argue lol. At any rate. Your telling the guy be natural and grow the right way. I stand behind that and agree. I will also tell you that I was wrong about the kidneys and you plumbed me up. Thanks. But 180 mg of Watson cyp is enough to make a guy put on serious lbs quick if he hits it hard enough
Too much to edit. I see now where you said you were not a doctor. Sorry. Even better. Your at least smart for a meat head. Good for you brother. I love smart meat heads.

A 32yr old male that weighs 160lbs is a novice in the gym, or to nutrition, unless relatively short or limited by weight class or soemthing along those lines. I already stated novices would be an exception. I understand you've gained 23lbs in 10wks but what do you think you've gained? It's not all muscle. It's not even mostly muscle.

 

[TheNeWkID]

 

[TheNeWkID]

I think it is pretty clean weight. I was injured and was out of gym for over a year.

 

[Docd187123]

I think it is pretty clean weight. I was injured and was out of gym for over a year.

I'm not trying to discredit your progress or physique. I'm not saying you're fat either. Truth be told you look pretty damned good (lots of homo). But most of the weight gained is going to be water and glyocgen. Being out of the gym for a year also helps what you've gained bc of muscle memory so it may not all be attributable to the cycle.

 

[TheNeWkID]

Your right. The above would not apply to someone who has not trained there whole life. "Lots of homo" that was great. I'm stealing bro. For sure.

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

View attachment 24000

That's a schhhmedium!!

 

[TheNeWkID]

And thank you. It is good to have a disagreement and it not end in a bunch of keyboard warrior stuff us know. Plus the new guy will get a trophy for his thread.

 

[TheNeWkID]

Jballz, it's not the size that counts.

 

[johnnyBALLZ]

Jballz, it's not the size that counts.

I'm talking about the shirt, check this out:

https://thinksteroids.com/community...shirt-being-too-tight.134365212/#post-1290530

Be careful out there man..