Supplements I am taking while doing 200mg test/ week

[brutus79]

Here is one I found in 2 seconds.

Omega-3 supplements could elevate risk of atrial fibrillation

• Patients who took more than one gram per day of omega-3 fatty acids had a 49% increased risk of developing atrial fibrillation, compared to just 12% of patients who took one gram or less of the supplement per day.

Effect of Marine Omega-3 Fatty Acid and Vitamin D Supplementation on Incident Atrial Fibrillation: A Randomized Clinical Trial - PubMed

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifiers: NCT02178410; NCT01169259.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And there is one that says not.

 

[Inspired]

There are shitty omega 3 supplements that can be “rancid” (first time hearing that terminology) but the major concern with cheap fish oils would be mercury levels and other contaminants that can affect cheap farmed fish. Getting fish oil that has been molecularly distilled is a good start. Nordic naturals makes a nice product that is a bit pricey, but you get what you pay for.

You never heard of "rancid" yet that is the number one problem for fish oils, even in so called good brands like Carlson and Nordic Naturals. Mercury and metal contamination while terrible, are not as bad as rancid oil.

But even when you get the cleanest and freshest oil, I am telling you that all polyunsaturated fatty acids, including Omega 3, are bad for you and should not be consumed as a supplement, beyond what is found in food. Eating fatty fish high in omega 3 somewhat counteracts the toxicity because of the fish itself has a special protein and nutrient content (example, the high quality protein, the more selenium, and astaxanthin in salmon, zinc in oysters etc, it depends on the type of fish). The extra nutrients and antioxidants can help prevent rancidity and help your body detox from the fats as you eat it, and there may be other unknown factors that make eating fatty fish less hazardous. I love fish and I supplemented with non rancid Omega 3 for years because the science was overwhelmingly positive, but I also misunderstood the science. I no longer supplement with Omega 3and I cut down my fish consumption. I have gone down this rabbit hole and the results that Omega-3 is bad and consumption needs to be limited.

PUFA's are so bad. Let me give you a relevant example since we are on a steroid forum: Omega 3 degrades androgen receptors. Just one of many of the toxic effects on consuming PUFA's and Omega 3.



Docosahexaenoic acid inhibits the growth of hormone-dependent prostate cancer cells by promoting the degradation of the androgen receptor. - PubMed - NCBI
"...In the present study, the androgen receptor (AR), which is a transcription factor involved in cell proliferation and prostate carcinogenesis, was identified as a target of DHA. It was revealed that DHA inhibited hormone‑dependent growth of LNCaP prostate cancer cells. Reverse transcription-quantitative polymerase chain reaction analysis revealed that treatment with DHA caused no alteration in the transcribed mRNA expression levels of the AR gene. However, immunoblotting revealed that this treatment reduces the protein expression level of the AR. The androgen‑induced genes were subsequently repressed by treatment with DHA. It was demonstrated that DHA exhibits no effect on the translation process of the AR, however, it promotes the proteasome‑mediated degradation of the AR. Therefore, the present study provided a novel mechanism by which DHA exhibits an inhibitory effect on growth of prostate cancer cells."

Effect of dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids on castration-resistant Pten-null prostate cancer. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Omega-3 PUFA slowed down the growth of castration-resistant tumors as compared with omega-6 PUFA. Omega-3 PUFA decreased AR protein to a similar extent in tumor cell cytosolic and nuclear fractions but had no effect on AR messenger RNA level. Omega-3 PUFA treatment appeared to accelerate AR protein degradation, which could be blocked by proteasome inhibitor MG132. Knockdown of AR significantly slowed down prostate cancer cell proliferation in the absence of androgens. Our data suggest that omega-3 PUFA inhibits castration-resistant prostate cancer in part by accelerating proteasome-dependent degradation of the AR protein. Dietary omega-3 PUFA supplementation in conjunction with androgen ablation may significantly delay the development of castration-resistant prostate cancer in patients compared with androgen ablation alone."

http://repbiol.pan.olsztyn.pl/docs/pdfs/repbiol_vol6_supp2_num_page13.pdf
"...The metabolism and synthesis of androgens seem to be particularly affected by the Ω-3 (α-linolenic, eicosapentanoic, docosahexaenoic fatty acids) and Ω-6 (γ-linolenic, linoleic, arachidonic, docosapentaenoic fatty acids) families of PUFAs. The Ω-3 PUFAs reduce the number of androgen receptors (AR), decrease total T level in plasma [20, 22, 27] and inhibit 5α-reductase activity [15, 21] in men and rats."

"...The influence of dietary fat composition on the gene expression and enzyme activity involved in the metabolism of androgens is not sufficiently elucidated. Arachidonic acid is known to inhibit the activity of 17βHSD [16]. Therefore, it may indirectly influence the rate of cellular synthesis of testosterone. Oleic acid inhibits the activity of cholesterol esterase [18], whereas γ-linolenic acid and eicosapentanoic acid metabolites inhibit the activity of 5α-reductase [21]."

 

[Inspired]

Effect of Marine Omega-3 Fatty Acid and Vitamin D Supplementation on Incident Atrial Fibrillation: A Randomized Clinical Trial - PubMed

ClinicalTrials.gov Identifiers: NCT02178410; NCT01169259.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And there is one that says not.

That's the same study I gave in this thread. Their conclusion stated that "Omega 3 did not prevent Atrial fibrillation and therefore should not be used to try and prevent atrial fibrillation". What they don't say in this conclusion is that in this study, they show that when taking fish oil, the risk of atrial fibrillation goes up, not down, and that up is 49% higher!

You need to look at what the don't say. You need to read these studies carefully. Scientists are careful with wording things. And there are worse studies, but I picked it because it is from 2021 and as a result, more new.

"Patients who took more than one gram per day of omega-3 fatty acids had a 49% increased risk of developing atrial fibrillation, compared to just 12% of patients who took one gram or less of the supplement per day."

Jin23 wanted to see a study where taking over 2-4g of fish oil was dangerous for a large group of people. This study was an easy example to show him that in a study with over 80,000 people, that even 1g of fish oil raised the risk of this heart problem by nearly 50%.

 

[Jin23]

I wasn't talking about quality of product. From my point of view, this topic was irrelevant. How and where one buys his omega 3's is not something I am concerned about, or at least I wasn't in the present discourse. The oxidation, ie. the rancidity problem with omegas is a well documented problem of which I am fully aware. It is up to every individual him self to be cautious when buying OTC's, or any other drug for that matter. Am I going to be talking about UGL's selling fake primo, when we are only talking about it's specific benefit's, for instance, on the immune system? No, I will not, it's not even a tangent, it's a completely different discourse all together. If you are so concerned about omegas being rancid then by all means; educate the readers about it, but don't go on some righteous crusade, bashing me for it, as clearly not all products suffer from this.

There are good practices which one can follow, assuring him self a quality product, or at least tipping the odds more on the side of a good product, as nothing is guaranteed on the consumer market. However, that being said, there are pharmaceutical omega 3's one can buy. In ethyl ester form: Lovaza, Vascepa and in triglyceride form: Epanova. And you also have some EPA only options I think, and probably more others, idk ...

Now the QC issue aside, you calling me a dumbass was a really dumbass move as you clearly have some irritability issues and your responses show a big lack in cognitive flexibility and typical aas induced high non agreeableness, aggressive behavior. While I might have been condescending in saying that your opinion doesn't matter (which let's be honest, it doesn't; you're just another high androgen forum know it all) it's clear who's the "dumbass" in this conversation. And besides, you are assuming way too much about me, about what I know and don't know about the topic at hand and me choosing to not participate in it is because of the aforementioned personality traits, which are currently highlighted in the semiotic code inherent in your writing. You need some serotonin friend, chill, it's just a discussion about freaking omega 3's. And maybe have a second look at your writing, how absolute it is. You're like a dictator: "Omega 3's are bad!, Do as I say!". Am, okey master, clearly all the scientific world should bow down to your knowledge and intellect.

The second reason for me not wanting to participate is the energy and time consumption of a needles debate, where it seems like we need to go through too many basics. There is absolutely no place for your absolutism, as for every negative review you're going to post, we're going to find a plethora of positive studies. Maybe listen to somebody else then Ray Pete? The major meta study that showed some negative outcomes in regards to stroke, there are other ones that disagree with that one, but besides, the CV positive outcomes (a reduction of heart attacks) among people who have CV diseases is still indisputably proven to be true. But to acknowledge what you are saying to a degree, yes, ofc, it's not as simple as it was once thought. Omega's do have some downsides.

However, these are just CV issues, but there is a plethora of other positive outcomes from using omega 3's, most notably the ones that I was refereeing to were neurobiological. The immunological outcomes are also far from being as simple and absolute as you tried to portray. And I'm not going to go in depth here, as I have no interest in talking to a wall with a sound speaker attached to it. And I doubt anybody else will try and have a meaningful conversation with you being in such a state as you are atm.

I'm not dragging my self into this debate any further, I have a life to live, believe it or not ...

 

[Inspired]

I wasn't talking about quality of product. From my point of view, this topic was irrelevant. How and where one buys his omega 3's is not something I am concerned about, or at least I wasn't in the present discourse. The oxidation, ie. the rancidity problem with omegas is a well documented problem of which I am fully aware. It is up to every individual him self to be cautious when buying OTC's, or any other drug for that matter. Am I going to be talking about UGL's selling fake primo, when we are only talking about it's specific benefit's, for instance, on the immune system? No, I will not, it's not even a tangent, it's a completely different discourse all together. If you are so concerned about omegas being rancid then by all means; educate the readers about it, but don't go on some righteous crusade, bashing me for it, as clearly not all products suffer from this.

There are good practices which one can follow, assuring him self a quality product, or at least tipping the odds more on the side of a good product, as nothing is guaranteed on the consumer market. However, that being said, there are pharmaceutical omega 3's one can buy. In ethyl ester form: Lovaza, Vascepa and in triglyceride form: Epanova. And you also have some EPA only options I think, and probably more others, idk ...

Now the QC issue aside, you calling me a dumbass was a really dumbass move as you clearly have some irritability issues and your responses show a big lack in cognitive flexibility and typical aas induced high non agreeableness, aggressive behavior. While I might have been condescending in saying that your opinion doesn't matter (which let's be honest, it doesn't; you're just another high androgen forum know it all) it's clear who's the "dumbass" in this conversation. And besides, you are assuming way too much about me, about what I know and don't know about the topic at hand and me choosing to not participate in it is because of the aforementioned personality traits, which are currently highlighted in the semiotic code inherent in your writing. You need some serotonin friend, chill, it's just a discussion about freaking omega 3's. And maybe have a second look at your writing, how absolute it is. You're like a dictator: "Omega 3's are bad!, Do as I say!". Am, okey master, clearly all the scientific world should bow down to your knowledge and intellect.

The second reason for me not wanting to participate is the energy and time consumption of a needles debate, where it seems like we need to go through too many basics. There is absolutely no place for your absolutism, as for every negative review you're going to post, we're going to find a plethora of positive studies. Maybe listen to somebody else then Ray Pete? The major meta study that showed some negative outcomes in regards to stroke, there are other ones that disagree with that one, but besides, the CV positive outcomes (a reduction of heart attacks) among people who have CV diseases is still indisputably proven to be true. But to acknowledge what you are saying to a degree, yes, ofc, it's not as simple as it was once thought. Omega's do have some downsides.

However, these are just CV issues, but there is a plethora of other positive outcomes from using omega 3's, most notably the ones that I was refereeing to were neurobiological. The immunological outcomes are also far from being as simple and absolute as you tried to portray. And I'm not going to go in depth here, as I have no interest in talking to a wall with a sound speaker attached to it. And I doubt anybody else will try and have a meaningful conversation with you being in such a state as you are atm.

I'm not dragging my self into this debate any further, I have a life to live, believe it or not ...

Nice wall of text. You didn't address any of the studies. You just want to believe in your omega-3's. That's ok. Next time, don't reply to me, so you can save your energy.

 

[brutus79]

Huh. Figures. I will read these and circle back. Thanks for taking the time to copy them all.

You never heard of "rancid" yet that is the number one problem for fish oils, even in so called good brands like Carlson and Nordic Naturals. Mercury and metal contamination while terrible, are not as bad as rancid oil.

But even when you get the cleanest and freshest oil, I am telling you that all polyunsaturated fatty acids, including Omega 3, are bad for you and should not be consumed as a supplement, beyond what is found in food. Eating fatty fish high in omega 3 somewhat counteracts the toxicity because of the fish itself has a special protein and nutrient content (example, the high quality protein, the more selenium, and astaxanthin in salmon, zinc in oysters etc, it depends on the type of fish). The extra nutrients and antioxidants can help prevent rancidity and help your body detox from the fats as you eat it, and there may be other unknown factors that make eating fatty fish less hazardous. I love fish and I supplemented with non rancid Omega 3 for years because the science was overwhelmingly positive, but I also misunderstood the science. I no longer supplement with Omega 3and I cut down my fish consumption. I have gone down this rabbit hole and the results that Omega-3 is bad and consumption needs to be limited.

PUFA's are so bad. Let me give you a relevant example since we are on a steroid forum: Omega 3 degrades androgen receptors. Just one of many of the toxic effects on consuming PUFA's and Omega 3.



Docosahexaenoic acid inhibits the growth of hormone-dependent prostate cancer cells by promoting the degradation of the androgen receptor. - PubMed - NCBI
"...In the present study, the androgen receptor (AR), which is a transcription factor involved in cell proliferation and prostate carcinogenesis, was identified as a target of DHA. It was revealed that DHA inhibited hormone‑dependent growth of LNCaP prostate cancer cells. Reverse transcription-quantitative polymerase chain reaction analysis revealed that treatment with DHA caused no alteration in the transcribed mRNA expression levels of the AR gene. However, immunoblotting revealed that this treatment reduces the protein expression level of the AR. The androgen‑induced genes were subsequently repressed by treatment with DHA. It was demonstrated that DHA exhibits no effect on the translation process of the AR, however, it promotes the proteasome‑mediated degradation of the AR. Therefore, the present study provided a novel mechanism by which DHA exhibits an inhibitory effect on growth of prostate cancer cells."

Effect of dietary polyunsaturated fatty acids on castration-resistant Pten-null prostate cancer. - PubMed - NCBI
"...Omega-3 PUFA slowed down the growth of castration-resistant tumors as compared with omega-6 PUFA. Omega-3 PUFA decreased AR protein to a similar extent in tumor cell cytosolic and nuclear fractions but had no effect on AR messenger RNA level. Omega-3 PUFA treatment appeared to accelerate AR protein degradation, which could be blocked by proteasome inhibitor MG132. Knockdown of AR significantly slowed down prostate cancer cell proliferation in the absence of androgens. Our data suggest that omega-3 PUFA inhibits castration-resistant prostate cancer in part by accelerating proteasome-dependent degradation of the AR protein. Dietary omega-3 PUFA supplementation in conjunction with androgen ablation may significantly delay the development of castration-resistant prostate cancer in patients compared with androgen ablation alone."

http://repbiol.pan.olsztyn.pl/docs/pdfs/repbiol_vol6_supp2_num_page13.pdf
"...The metabolism and synthesis of androgens seem to be particularly affected by the Ω-3 (α-linolenic, eicosapentanoic, docosahexaenoic fatty acids) and Ω-6 (γ-linolenic, linoleic, arachidonic, docosapentaenoic fatty acids) families of PUFAs. The Ω-3 PUFAs reduce the number of androgen receptors (AR), decrease total T level in plasma [20, 22, 27] and inhibit 5α-reductase activity [15, 21] in men and rats."

"...The influence of dietary fat composition on the gene expression and enzyme activity involved in the metabolism of androgens is not sufficiently elucidated. Arachidonic acid is known to inhibit the activity of 17βHSD [16]. Therefore, it may indirectly influence the rate of cellular synthesis of testosterone. Oleic acid inhibits the activity of cholesterol esterase [18], whereas γ-linolenic acid and eicosapentanoic acid metabolites inhibit the activity of 5α-reductase [21]."

 

[Union44]

Wow that's a lot of garlic. Your breath must be potent. I think that your supplements might be unnecessary. Most of those nutrients are easy to get from food and not needed in large dosages. Have you noticed any difference from taking them?

I think the switch from tea to coffee is a good move. I got off coffee just last week because it was causing anxiety and jitters more than anything else. Only supps i take are K2, D3 and spirulina. Spirulina for additional micronutrients. K2 because it's hard to get enough from food. And D3 because I live in a cold area and hardly get any sun. I try to stick with things that I can't get from food. When I was a vegetarian I also took b12 but no longer am a vegetarian so discontinued that.

 

[Cyrusthevirus]

Hey union44 I’m trying to reach out to you about the slim but I think because I’m a new member I can’t message you or post a reply on your thread. If you can pm me about it

 

[buck]

The healthier ones diet is the less reliance on supplements that are needed as i see it. And supplements do not take the place of healthy food. For example, there are several types of vitamin A, E. Differing types of magnesium, enzymes. That are optimal for differing pathways in the body. So taking one form of something really doesn't optimally replace the natural food.