Sustainable long term Sports TRT+ yay or ney

[Nidus]

Hey guys

I would like your advice and opinions on my current TRT
I guess you could call it Sports TRT+++ or a cycle.

Currently on:
250mg Test E Weekly
250mg Primo Weekly

(Started TRT 2 years ago and slowly upped the dose by 50mg every 6 months until i found the sweet spot, anything above 300mgs makes me feel just weird)

During Cut phases i introduce:
3iu HGH daily (making sure fasted blood glucose isnt above 85, if it ever exceeds that i drop the HGH down to 2 if not even entirely)
500mg Carnitine daily

On heavy workout days Shoulders and legs i use 10mg of Anavar preworkout (max. 20mgs a week)

While this is combined around 500mg of gear a week, i feel absolutly great and feel like i have finally found the sweet spot. Done labs 2 months ago and everything looked well according to my doctor (planning to do labs next month again)

Shall i lower doses to 200 test and 200 primo or potentially cut out primo in the longer run and use an AI?
Right now Primo keeps my E2 at 33-35 and honestly, it feels great overall just not sure how long i should run this if permantly at all and introduce breaks

Asked a few people in my gym about it (some of them are coaches) and they see Primo as not an issue at all as long as i do bloodwork every 4-6 months and stay on top of things with my Doctor (250mg Test E is prescribed by a doctor guiding me through this, added Primo as an AI kind of on my own)

Other data that might help:

Working out 2 days, 1 rest day, following 2 days of training and repeat
Split into 5, Legs, Arms, Shoulders, Back, Chest (often Skip one restday to train arms right after as i dont see it as a "heavy day")
Every day i do 30 minutes of fasted cardio followed by 5k steps daily
Rest days 60 min of cardio
Once a week i do a refeed adding 100-150g carbs extra plus a few more fats (usually just eating a few more nuts)

Currently at 2500 kcal, maintenance
Bodyweight 140KG, initially started at 172KGs
190cm height (6"2)

Overall, my weight keeps going down slowly but i also keep getting stronger, leaner and more masculine

Looking for good advice/discussion and any input, please dont roast me right away thanks

 

[1Megaman]

if blood work is coming back good then I wouldn’t worry about it. Only issue I see is running a 1 to 1 ratio of primo test would crash my E2. If I run 250 test I have to keep my primo around 100-125mg to not crash my E2.

 

[primojuju]

It is a cycle, but a pretty decent one in my opinion. I would say keep going until you reach your goals or bloodwork gets unacceptable. I do a similar amount of similar drugs and the only reason I go down to trt is if I have life happen and I cant dedicate the time to training. Staying healthy on moderate doses is kinda easy now adays, and you can get bp or cholesterol meds whenever you want. I used carnitine for a few years, I found it has some mental benefits, but after taking it out I noticed no physical difference and decided it wasn't worth the pain in the butt shot anymore. Do you notice anything specific you like about carnitine?. I also love 25mg anavar pre workout, and lately I have been adding a 50mg test base shot preworkout and its been my new favorite thing.

 

[bigboy420]

Once hemoglobin gets too bad there is no way back. Ive heard

 

[Nidus]

if blood work is coming back good then I wouldn’t worry about it. Only issue I see is running a 1 to 1 ratio of primo test would crash my E2. If I run 250 test I have to keep my primo around 100-125mg to not crash my E2.

1:1 Ratio keeps my E2 nice and low and not sure if that sounds weird, i started TRT because of basically 0 testosterone (had 0.6 Test according to my doc, the average male in my age should have at least 5.0)

After starting TRT i noticed that my mental well being improved rapidly and now having found the sweet spot of 250:250 (Testrimo) i honestly feel happy, i am satisfied and can see colors in life (If that sounds too weird, ignore it)

It is a cycle, but a pretty decent one in my opinion. I would say keep going until you reach your goals or bloodwork gets unacceptable. I do a similar amount of similar drugs and the only reason I go down to trt is if I have life happen and I cant dedicate the time to training. Staying healthy on moderate doses is kinda easy now adays, and you can get bp or cholesterol meds whenever you want. I used carnitine for a few years, I found it has some mental benefits, but after taking it out I noticed no physical difference and decided it wasn't worth the pain in the butt shot anymore. Do you notice anything specific you like about carnitine?. I also love 25mg anavar pre workout, and lately I have been adding a 50mg test base shot preworkout and its been my new favorite thing.

If my bloodwork goes to hsit i would lower doses of both once without hesitation, hoping to maintain this "I feel good"-feeling overall
No blood pressure issues whatsoever at the moment, only worried about lipids and thinking of proactively take 2-5mg's of Ezemtibe and daily Carnitin injections to improve these proactively + eating more statins (like dark chocolate 99%)

Once hemoglobin gets too bad there is no way back. Ive heard

Mine is reference range but what makes it so difficult to get it back to normal, if elevated?

 

[Burntoutn3rd]

Once hemoglobin gets too bad there is no way back. Ive heard

Hemoglobin doesn't always go up on gear, it's really diet and lifestyle dependant.

Eat clean, cut out simple sugars, don't smoke/drink, and stay on top of routine cardio and you should never experience an issue with it even running mild cycles.

And you can still lower it still by addressing those things and watching iron intake.

Addressing the overproduction of RBC by lowering your maintenance dose will help too.

Draining blood is a temp fix obviously.

Move to lower elevations.

There's workarounds, lol.

 

[Theworm]

Hey guys

I would like your advice and opinions on my current TRT
I guess you could call it Sports TRT+++ or a cycle.

Currently on:
250mg Test E Weekly
250mg Primo Weekly

(Started TRT 2 years ago and slowly upped the dose by 50mg every 6 months until i found the sweet spot, anything above 300mgs makes me feel just weird)

During Cut phases i introduce:
3iu HGH daily (making sure fasted blood glucose isnt above 85, if it ever exceeds that i drop the HGH down to 2 if not even entirely)
500mg Carnitine daily

On heavy workout days Shoulders and legs i use 10mg of Anavar preworkout (max. 20mgs a week)

While this is combined around 500mg of gear a week, i feel absolutly great and feel like i have finally found the sweet spot. Done labs 2 months ago and everything looked well according to my doctor (planning to do labs next month again)

Shall i lower doses to 200 test and 200 primo or potentially cut out primo in the longer run and use an AI?
Right now Primo keeps my E2 at 33-35 and honestly, it feels great overall just not sure how long i should run this if permantly at all and introduce breaks

Asked a few people in my gym about it (some of them are coaches) and they see Primo as not an issue at all as long as i do bloodwork every 4-6 months and stay on top of things with my Doctor (250mg Test E is prescribed by a doctor guiding me through this, added Primo as an AI kind of on my own)

Other data that might help:

Working out 2 days, 1 rest day, following 2 days of training and repeat
Split into 5, Legs, Arms, Shoulders, Back, Chest (often Skip one restday to train arms right after as i dont see it as a "heavy day")
Every day i do 30 minutes of fasted cardio followed by 5k steps daily
Rest days 60 min of cardio
Once a week i do a refeed adding 100-150g carbs extra plus a few more fats (usually just eating a few more nuts)

Currently at 2500 kcal, maintenance
Bodyweight 140KG, initially started at 172KGs
190cm height (6"2)

Overall, my weight keeps going down slowly but i also keep getting stronger, leaner and more masculine

Looking for good advice/discussion and any input, please dont roast me right away thanks

How old are you?

 

[Nidus]

How old are you?

28, been using gear for the past 2.2 years

 

[Theworm]

28, been using gear for the past 2.2 years

That would be my only concern, you are so young. What about having a family? Primo and test, may increase risk of prostate cancer, etc. biggest concern is the family issue. If I was your age I would do 2 blasts a year with short esters for about 8 weeks. But that’s just me

 

[bigboy420]

That would be my only concern, you are so young. What about having a family?

We belive in doctors. They will fix my ballz when ill need them

Mine is reference range but what makes it so difficult to get it back to normal, if elevated?

There is no real fix for it if it gets elevated.

Hemoglobin doesn't always go up on gear, it's really diet and lifestyle dependant.

Doesnt always but yea. Maybe

 

[Nidus]

That would be my only concern, you are so young. What about having a family? Primo and test, may increase risk of prostate cancer, etc. biggest concern is the family issue. If I was your age I would do 2 blasts a year with short esters for about 8 weeks. But that’s just me

I always run a little dose of HCG to conserve my balls but no girlfriend in sight at all. The usual lone wolf here, gym, work, eat, repeat

No time for females, own company, career and gym are much important to me

My dating experience has been shit and also reason why i choose gym and gym bros over women

 

[bigboy420]

My dating experience has been shit and also reason why i choose gym and gym bros over women

Damn bro, what a turn. Gotta admit mine too. Guess we need to inject more?

 

[Nidus]

Damn bro, what a turn. Gotta admit mine too. Guess we need to inject more?

Haha its quite funny how it all started, overweight, got turned down by a few woman and got called ugly so that turned a switch inside me and every since then i did not stop going to the gym, only had breaks when i was sick

Cut is going well and i am already a lot of weight.
Recently got a shipment and got some free gear including two bottles of Tren so that has been smiling at me all night and all day hah

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

If the blood looks good, and you feel good, I’d continue. You’re not taking egregious substances or doses, so I wouldn’t be concerned.

Sometimes I lay awake at night weighing up the pros and cons of “TRT+”.

For example, if I lowered my total T to within range, I’d feel worse psychologically and I’d probably not have the motivation to eat well and exercise. Would that have a deleterious effect on my health? Would I actually be healthier in the long term if I take a higher dose of T because of the changes in my lifestyle?

On my current dose I’m possibly more likely to suffer cardiovascular events, but I’m less likely to suffer from skeletomuscular disorders, which means I can stay more active for longer. Would an 80 year old natty who struggles to get off the toilet outlive an 80 year old who takes 400mg TE a week and does an hour’s cardio each day? I’m not sure.

There are pros and cons with every substance you put into your body, including food. Protein intake helps muscle mass, which is correlated with increased longevity. But protein intake is also associated with cancer and kidney dysfunction. Sunscreen protects against skin cancer, but you’re also introducing toxic substances into your blood. Metformin is associated with longevity, but it also has side effects.

I aim for symptom relief and I won’t be concerned until my blood gives me reason to be

 

[bigboy420]

if I lowered my total T to within range, I’d feel worse psychologically

Has to be a addiction or in the head.
I feel worse psychologically if I dont smoke weed but on 150mg I feel fantastic.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

Has to be a addiction or in the head.
I feel worse psychologically if I dont smoke weed but on 150mg I feel fantastic.

Nah. Not placebo. When I started TRT I was on injections and felt shit. I switched to Testogel after a year and felt good. I didn’t think I should feel good, as my total T was lower and my e2 was well above range. It took me 2 years being on it before I got my DHT tested and found out my DHT was well above range.

If it was in my head I wouldn’t have felt better on doses that had me worried.

 

[Greenbay68]

If the blood looks good, and you feel good, I’d continue. You’re not taking egregious substances or doses, so I wouldn’t be concerned.

Sometimes I lay awake at night weighing up the pros and cons of “TRT+”.

For example, if I lowered my total T to within range, I’d feel worse psychologically and I’d probably not have the motivation to eat well and exercise. Would that have a deleterious effect on my health? Would I actually be healthier in the long term if I take a higher dose of T because of the changes in my lifestyle?

On my current dose I’m possibly more likely to suffer cardiovascular events, but I’m less likely to suffer from skeletomuscular disorders, which means I can stay more active for longer. Would an 80 year old natty who struggles to get off the toilet outlive an 80 year old who takes 400mg TE a week and does an hour’s cardio each day? I’m not sure.

There are pros and cons with every substance you put into your body, including food. Protein intake helps muscle mass, which is correlated with increased longevity. But protein intake is also associated with cancer and kidney dysfunction. Sunscreen protects against skin cancer, but you’re also introducing toxic substances into your blood. Metformin is associated with longevity, but it also has side effects.

I aim for symptom relief and I won’t be concerned until my blood gives me reason to be

I think about the same thing. There is a certain dose range that encourages the necessary exercise and diet within my busy lifestyle. There is a higher dose that relieves stress, makes me confident, and keeps a winning edge. Anyone I’ve met between 80-100yo that are still enjoying life have these things in common. Stress kills. Worry kills. Laziness kills.

I don’t love the idea that testosterone has a ‘normal range’ either. Was that range just derived from a bunch of average men? Who is to say that there is not an optimal dosing above those levels? We know that higher doses Vitamin D (which is also a hormone) supercharges the immunity and does all sorts of good.

So yeah- what is the right dose? I think it’s a dose that doesn’t affect your heart structure, arterial calcification or lipids (HDL specifically). I dont see any issue with someone riding between 1000-2000ng/dL if known side effects are in order and checked regularly.


Does this guarantee anything? No. If you back away 50 years, we’re in quite the cutting edge period of how popular TRT is, and the amount of experimentation and data that comes with it.

Like you, I take a few other things every day and have for a long time, meant to enhance longevity and risks:

-Magnesium Glycinate 800mg (relax muscle tissue, encourage sleep)
-Metformin 500mg (blood sugar improvement, telomere length/longevity benefits
-aspirin 81mg (blood thinner. Everyone should unless you have stomach bleeding issues, or hemorrhagic strokes run in your familyIMO)
-circumin (6 pills? lol. General inflammation and well being)
-Vitamins ADK (5000:5000:500, per one of the books I read on managing calcium and reversing atherosclerosis)
-5mg Cialis (relax arterial walls)

I will take these until I die, unless research changes drastically.

So yeah, if you’re a couch potato, keep TRT as is, but if like me, jumping from 150mg/wk up to 200-250/wk and/or adding 100mg of mast/primo makes it so that you workout every day, never get sick, sleep great, wake up happy, deal with stressors well, progress in your career and care for yourself as well as your family—-

I’m happy to be the canary down the mineshaft, because yes, that extra bit makes a difference to me.

 

[lukiss96]

My rule says TRT is Testosterone only whether it's plus, super, sport, pro or whatever you wanna call. When you add anything else it becomes a cruise. Of course you can do whatever you want, it's just my opinion at the end of the day.

 

[Eddie.]

Please, don't call it a TRT or sports TRT or +++, this is a cycle. You wanna cycle for the rest of your life? Do it, just don't deceive yourself or any other newbies by letting them see these kind of false statements.

TRT is a legitimate dose of testosterone only that puts you inside the reference range. TRT+ is a higher dose of test only that many guys into fitness and bb lifestyle look up too, just a tad over the ref range. Implementing other biointentical hormones like HGH or insulin, DHEA, pregnenolone etc is called HRT, hormone replacement therapy. When you add a little bit of everything else like anavar, primo, mast or you name it, just call it a cycle. Baby cycle or blast cycle, is still a cycle. Doing relatively normal dosages of non biointentical anabolic steroids does not mean you're doing sports TRT..

My POV on this matter is to cruise only on test, some AI, maybe some HCG and that's it. Then use the other drugs when there is a reason, either to push muscle mass up or cut down and lose bodyfat. There's no point using a list of hormones while just chilling or preserving your body composition if you're not an advanced bodybuilder.

 

[HUGE McBIGLARGE]

Please, don't call it a TRT or sports TRT or +++, this is a cycle. You wanna cycle for the rest of your life? Do it, just don't deceive yourself or any other newbies by letting them see these kind of false statements.

TRT is a legitimate dose of testosterone only that puts you inside the reference range. TRT+ is a higher dose of test only that many guys into fitness and bb lifestyle look up too, just a tad over the ref range. Implementing other biointentical hormones like HGH or insulin, DHEA, pregnenolone etc is called HRT, hormone replacement therapy. When you add a little bit of everything else like anavar, primo, mast or you name it, just call it a cycle. Baby cycle or blast cycle, is still a cycle. Doing relatively normal dosages of non biointentical anabolic steroids does not mean you're doing sports TRT..

My POV on this matter is to cruise only on test, some AI, maybe some HCG and that's it. Then use the other drugs when there is a reason, either to push muscle mass up or cut down and lose bodyfat. There's no point using a list of hormones while just chilling or preserving your body composition if you're not an advanced bodybuilder.

The difference between medicine and drug abuse is whether the intended result is a therapeutic improvement of symptoms and/or biomarkers

If you’re taking steroids to achieve a body composition beyond what is needed to be healthy, then that would be considered “steroid abuse”. If you’re taking 500mg of test because that is the only thing that resolves your symptoms, then that is a therapeutic use.

I’m sure you’d agree that someone whose T is normal and who is not symptomatic, but who takes testosterone to achieve a higher but still normal level of total testosterone would be considered someone who is abusing steroids, despite their T still being “normal”. And the opposite is true. Some people get symptomatic relief from supraphysiological total T.