Switched to test enanthate now pip

[readalot]

Thanks for sharing. I listened to it and respectfully it is silly. No offense to you. Nonsensical comments. He uses words such as chemistry and calculus like some of us gearheads don't grasp these concepts. In the limit of continuous infusion there can't be any difference in serum levels for TC vs TE corrected for %T in the ester. In practice, you just dose every day if you want stable blood levels. You can move Cavg by increasing dose. No magical differences between TE vs TC.

Bottom line. TC and TE are practically identical pharmacokinetically. See my summary above.

Off to start my podcast lol.

 

[dinfar1337]

Flies in the face of significant PK studies done on this topic. Very curious to learn.

same conclusion i reached, my perception is theres no difference between e and c besides the bioavability. using them both anecdotally.

 

[readalot]

same conclusion i reached, my perception is theres no difference between e and c besides the bioavability. using them both anecdotally.

Shared my thoughts above. Their claims are nonsense. Too bad many aren't able / formally trained to cut through the BS. Then this stuff gets further perpetuated.

 

[readalot]

Kurt Havens:

Please Sir, STOP the MADNESS!

 

[readalot]

I've exclusively used test enanthate for over a decade, with no pip or other problems. I've heard others complain plenty though, so people do have issues with it. The recent test E I've used has come from Opti and Stan, and both have been pain free.

This is likely to be largely meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but one reason I prefer enanthate over cypionate is because it's a simpler ester. Cypionate has a cyclopentyl ring, whereas enanthate is a simpler straight seven carbon chain. There was a recent study showing cypionate to have significantly lower peak serum levels when compared to enanthate. Theoretically, phosphodiesterase 7b, the cleaving enzyme that is responsible for removing the ester, has difficulty dealing with the bulky cyclopentyl ring present in cypionate. This applies to esters like phenylpropionate as well, which is commonly present in NPP and testosterone phenylpropionate, a test ester found in Sustanon.

This is testosterone enanthate:
View attachment 339092

And testosterone cypionate:
View attachment 339093

The three dimensional images give a bit more insight.

Here is testosterone enanthate:
View attachment 339094
And testosterone cypionate:
View attachment 339095


I could be wrong about all of this, so feel free to correct me. These theories were based on just a single study as far as I know, but the reasoning made sense to me. If enanthate causes too much pip to use, obviously none of this matters, but I thought it interesting enough to share.

Thank you for including the chemical structures. Really appreciate your effort Sir.

 

[readalot]

Kind of confused here. People have been using test E for decades with zero issues. It is by far more popular worldwide vs cyp. Now all of a sudden people are saying it is bad and always hurts?! WTF seriously. If a particular manufacturer does a poor job with the raw material manufacturing, that doesn't mean the product is inherently bad or painful.

I have injected pharma Test E just fine many times. The UG Test E will be argued about forever it seems.

 

[wp_375]

I wonder if a lot of the primo pip is simply due to the enanthate ester.

Tren enanthate has zero PIP. Probably tied with Deca for the compound with the least

 

[AllGoodThings]

No disrespect to you Sir. I have covered Havens' claims and bluntly they are without merit.

Absolutely none taken. I'm here to learn, and ego has no place in that endeavor. I appreciate all the responses, seems it has been thoroughly discussed and dismissed already.

For me, enanthate has never given the slightest discomfort, so I'll continue to use it. I can also tolerate cyp just fine, and have about 48 vials left of Opti's Test 400 blend of 200mg cyp and 200mg enanthate that I'm planning to get into on my next blast as I prefer less oil volume/higher concentrations for blasts. If I did have adverse reactions to either ester, I would simply avoid that one. Unless people claiming E is trash have some info I am missing, isn't that all we're talking about here?

Edit: I guess there were some issues with Test E raws, and UGL test E had/has been problematic for a while?

 

[BP_6]

I have injected pharma Test E just fine many times. The UG Test E will be argued about forever it seems.

Same here. Haven't once had pharm test E hurt. Have had many UGL's at 250mg/ml be painless well. Only time I have ever had it hurt was with a specific batch of UGL, or if they decided to go over the 250mg/ml standard concentration. I blamed the UGL one on poorly made raws.

You don't know how many times I've seen someone inject 400mg/ml test E and then seem shocked that it hurts a lot.

 

[readalot]

I've seen someone inject 400mg/ml test E

Smh.

I still don't comprehend the utility of these concentrated brews. Risk/reward makes no sense. Even if I ran 5 g/week it is still manageable with daily insulin pin injections. OK I exaggerate a little for effect here. 3 g per week is very doable though.

 

[HeatherSwanson]

I've exclusively used test enanthate for over a decade, with no pip or other problems. I've heard others complain plenty though, so people do have issues with it. The recent test E I've used has come from Opti and Stan, and both have been pain free.

This is likely to be largely meaningless in the grand scheme of things, but one reason I prefer enanthate over cypionate is because it's a simpler ester. Cypionate has a cyclopentyl ring, whereas enanthate is a simpler straight seven carbon chain. There was a recent study showing cypionate to have significantly lower peak serum levels when compared to enanthate. Theoretically, phosphodiesterase 7b, the cleaving enzyme that is responsible for removing the ester, has difficulty dealing with the bulky cyclopentyl ring present in cypionate. This applies to esters like phenylpropionate as well, which is commonly present in NPP and testosterone phenylpropionate, a test ester found in Sustanon.

This is testosterone enanthate:
View attachment 339092

And testosterone cypionate:
View attachment 339093

The three dimensional images give a bit more insight.

Here is testosterone enanthate:
View attachment 339094
And testosterone cypionate:
View attachment 339095


I could be wrong about all of this, so feel free to correct me. These theories were based on just a single study as far as I know, but the reasoning made sense to me. If enanthate causes too much pip to use, obviously none of this matters, but I thought it interesting enough to share.

I like cyp because no ouchies.

I see you like enth because of balls and sticks sculptures. Very cool

 

[AllGoodThings]

I like cyp because no ouchies.

I see you like enth because of balls and sticks sculptures. Very cool

I do love me some balls and sticks

 

[readalot]

I like cyp because no ouchies.

I see you like enth because of balls and sticks sculptures. Very cool

 

[readalot]

More mind pollution if you enjoy this sort of thing.

Thread 'Justin Harris and Kurt Havens on IM rhgh selection choice'

Jan 5, 2025

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Pry64HDYc


Play 45:06 you should hear Kurt yapping how IM degrades (Justin confirmation) rhgh 50:46 continues to point one study yet saying 75% vs 63% bioavailability, reaction etc. anyone care disputing or subq choice the only correct way

• Mayne

• 

 

[120nmol]

Never had pip with test e unless something was wrong with the gear
Currently running Russian test e and in between Indian test e no issues even on 1ml a day nothing..

 

[undersc0re]

Well, I guess I am just not very agreeable with enanthate for some reason, back to the cyp after these are done…

 

[BigDadd7]

Well, I guess I am just not very agreeable with enanthate for some reason, back to the cyp after these are done…

E started becoming problematic for me about a year ago. I had some E left to use and felt like being cheap. I used it for every third injection or so, and used cyp for the rest. It minimized the inflammation.

 

[undersc0re]

E started becoming problematic for me about a year ago. I had some E left to use and felt like being cheap. I used it for every third injection or so, and used cyp for the rest. It minimized the inflammation.

That sounds like a good plan!

 

[Sicsemptyran]

Shared my thoughts above. Their claims are nonsense. Too bad many aren't able / formally trained to cut through the BS. Then this stuff gets further perpetuated.

Haven’t seen it mentioned here yet but that Kurt Havens “study” is a single person unblinded test. Basically had a guy pin one for a bit, had a guy pin another.

Zero scientific rigor, our thread regarding IGF-1 levels has more validity than his bullshit.

 

[cottoni]

I was taking test e mct oil at 250/week and have the most insane pip. Swollen about the size of a lime. Luckily no infection or anything just hurts like hell. Going to swap to gso test c this week

I think the issue might actually be with the MCT carrier oil.
I’ve been using Test E with GSO for years no PIP completely painless.
Also used Test C from the same lab with GSO and had zero problems.

But I recently got some Test C brewed with MCT oil, and now I’m experiencing extreme PIP, swelling, and soreness that lasts for several days.

The new Test C is legit , Janoshik tested and confirmed by bloodwork, so I’m starting to wonder if my body’s reacting to something in the MCT oil or possibly the brewing process itself.