Taking test for life....Pros and cons...

[Hugo]

I'm 38 years old, have done maybe 10cycles properly with pct. Over15 years.
Please advise:
Do not want anymore children, my test levels were/are fine....
I am a month in on taking 300 mg of test cyp per week...divided into two doses every 4 days... So total of 300mg test every 8 days.
I plan on taking this as long as I'm alive and kicking.
If I choose to take test synthetically, and don't care about natural test levels, how bad is this for me.. Or is it really that bad at all?
Will I continually make minor gains and have that feeling of wellbeing from test....more importantly, are the risks major or minor?

 

[etul86]

I'm not a doctor, but i have to ask. Did you put yourself on TRT or are you going through a doctor?
I know that extra test can make your cholesterol numbers go up some. So definitely watch your diet and keep a regular exorcise regiment.

Bump for Pro's, Con's, Health risks?

 

[Bill Roberts]

If your blood pressure, blood lipids, and estradiol levels are good (ideally in the lowest quintile, or about 20-30 pg/mL) and red blood cell count is not a problem, then I don't think there is reason to suspect long term health harm with such a dose.

The exception would be that if your free T is well above the top end of the normal range, then I would be suspicious of possible long term (years of use on end) adverse effect out of simple cautiousness rather than specific evidence. But your dosage may not be putting free levels greatly or perhaps even at all out of the normal range.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

I will 100% guarantee problems with polycythemia. This will require heightened monitoring and, in some, can not be treated by therapeutic phlebotomies. Once RBC production ramps up in certain individuals, it is like a runaway train! The successful treatment will require [demand] stopping AAS.

 

[Bill Roberts]

There are individuals who, getting blood panels and being under medical care, don't have medical problems or detected problems anyway with elevated red blood cell count at 300 mg/week; in this instance the dosage is somewhat less as it is per 8 days so actually it averages 263 mg/week. It seems to me a more typical top-end though for long term with definitely no issues is 250 mg/week, not 300. But 263 may well be close enough for government work.

(Edit: of course RBC is not the whole story for polycythemia as total blood volume is also a factor, but RBC is what is typically measured. And if blood pressure is okay and RBC is okay, then is polycythemia ever an issue? A question, not a statement.)

Are you 100% guaranteeing medical problems at his dosage of 263 mg/week on average (150 mg per 4 days) or perhaps there is a communication thing of me misreading or perhaps your post not actually reading exactly as you meant?

For example I would tend to guess you may have meant meant 100% likelihood of an increase in RBC relative to the low-testosterone condition, and a caution that in some individuals it will not be possible to maintain this dose?

 

[zkt]

I will 100% guarantee problems with polycythemia. This will require heightened monitoring and, in some, can not be treated by therapeutic phlebotomies. Once RBC production ramps up in certain individuals, it is like a runaway train! The successful treatment will require [demand] stopping AAS.

What about cases with pre-existing macrocytic anemia ?

 

[Ghandi]

" If I choose to take test synthetically, and don't care about natural test levels, how bad is this for me.. Or is it really that bad at all?"

Depends if you care about getting balls the size of raisins, apart from the possible afore mentioned medical issues.

 

[Hugo]

So if my test levels were at a normal range before starting, will I cosistently get an anabolic effect at those same dosages(300mg) every 8days....say in 3years time? Will I still feel that fullness and test feeling in 3years, 5years, 10years from now at that same constant dose?
Also, would you recommend a different dose?
Please advise on both questions, thanks!

 

[Bill Roberts]

300 mg per 8 days should always give results commensurate with top-of-normal range free T levels or even a bit better, including years down the road, but much less than commensurate with typical-steroid-cycle-level use.

 

[Hugo]

Bill or anyone else with knowledge.....
What do u recomend and how often for shrunken testes yearly?
Also, nolvadex as preventative? Doses and how often yearly?
Thanks

 

[Bill Roberts]

To avoid testicular shrinkage, a total of about 700 IU per week is sufficient. For example that could be 200 IU every other day, or 250 IU 3x/week.

However if doing that I would reduce the testosterone amount, for long term use, by 100 mg/week.

I wouldn't use Nolvadex as chronic (long term) treatment.

If estradiol levels are higher than they should be, then the amount of aromatase inhibitor needed to correct that would absolutely depend on the individual case. The dosage would be adjusted according to test results. But if estradiol is elevated in the first place then for example about 0.36 mg/day of letrozole is a good starting point.

 

[Hugo]

Are u saying to take the hcg steady at that dose or in cycles?
What do u recommend as best hcg approach?
Only if I notice shrinkage?
Please advise....thanks in advance..

 

[Bill Roberts]

The above is a preventative dose. It is intended for long-term use, to provide an amount of stimulation to the testes about commensurate with low-to-mid-normal LH production.

 

[heavyiron]

500iu HCG twice weekly will restore ITT levels in TRT patients. Keep an eye on E2 and Hematocrit.

 

[Hugo]

Sooooo.....
If I take 300ml test cype every 8 days...steady for life...
Am I better off taking hcg weekly as a preventative dose or...
Take hcg if I see problem arise????
Which is best option

 

[Bill Roberts]

As in the above post, I recommend the above use as a preventative.

The method of waiting until an inevitable problem develops and then responding to it, is that that allows the problem to develop in the first place. There really is no reason to do that.

Btw, the 500 IU 2x/week dosing posted by Heavyiron above is also perfectly fine. Because of your relatively high testosterone dosage for permanent HRT, I gave a lower but still effective preventative dose. The 1000 IU/week dosage level would probably require slightly more cutback in testosterone dosing. There would be nothing wrong with that at all if doing the needed bloodwork.

Basically I thought it would be harder to persuade you to cut back more on the testosterone than to be milder on the HCG. It would be an at least equally good approach to use 500 IU 2x/week, or even 3x/week, and to use less testosterone by injection.

But basically if one combines both more substantial HCG use, e.g. 1500 IU/week, with 263 mg/week (300 mg per 8 days) testosterone use, this would be like using very roughly 360-560 mg/week testosterone by injection and long term would likely be too much for optimal health as judged by blood lipid profile, possibly blood pressure, and hematocrit. Also free T would be well above the top end of the normal range though it is speculative as to whether that inherently, aside from the above problems, is harmful to long term health. I think it's fair to say it is taking a risk to stay permanently well above the top end of the normal range.

So the more HCG that is used, the more that testosterone dosing will need to be cut back.

At a dosage such as 1000-1500 IU per week, it might well be necessary to cut back to for example only 100 mg/week testosterone by injection. Or even nothing in some cases.

 

[Hugo]

So if I take 700iu per week of hcg as a preventative and cut back from 300mls a week ....down to 200ml per week of test ....will I still feel that same feeling of wellbeing etc as I might have if previously using 300ml?
Equally effective?
Is this The best approach for what I am doing here?
Anything see you would add to this approach?

 

[Bill Roberts]

Well, I can't say that when using a total of 700 IU/week of HCG that the figure for injected testosterone would go to exactly 200 mg per 8 days instead of 300 mg per 8 days, but that is likely approximately right.

The exact value would best be determined by measuring free T level at your current plan and seeing if it is appropriate in the first place; then if so, after adding the HCG with an adjustment in T level, take a test again after 3 weeks or so and readjust if needed.

However if not doing the tests, dropping to 100 mg per 4 days (200 mg per 8 days) would be a reasonable guess. But I would recommend the bloodwork, and especially so as you plan this for longterm.

 

[Hugo]

Ok...so,....
A few things...
So dropping my test levels to 200 mg every 8 days along with the hcg(700iu/week) will continue to keep my test levels well above average levels resulting in gains and feeling of well beiing and that nice above average pump?
Also, I plan to take cynomel 75mg per day. From what I read, taking cytomel for longer periods is NOT detrimental to ur thyroid as long as you give it 2-3months to normalize.
I have used cyto for 3 months in the past...
Do u feel that 3-6 months or as many as 9 months with 3 months rest is problematic?
Thanks in advance....

 

[Bill Roberts]

Yes, on the T levels and effect.

I haven't chosen to work on seeing how far the gray area goes with T3 and how grey it gets, but have focused on definitely-safe yet effective use.

75 mg/day long term use (6-9 months) is not, IMO, in that range or anything like it, at least not with correctly dosed tablet-form T3. With a liquid, the actual dose taken may be much less than the user is expecting.