Test P/Dbol/Proviron Short Cycle - 2weeks Alternate x 3 (Bill Roberts Protocol)

[robinodds]

Hi all,

I am fairly new to cycling as I have done only one, however I have done extensive research throughout the years.

Here is the cycle I have done last year:
12 weeks long
week 1-12 400mg Test E (200mg twice a week)
week 8-14 Var 50mg ed
week 4-13 HCG 250 iu twice a week

PCT:
Week 14-20 Clomid
day 1-2 / 6 ed (2+2+2 after meals)
day 3-12 / 2 ed
day 13-43 / 1 ed

Age: 38
High: 1.93cm / 6’3’’
Weight: 98kg / 216 lbs

Diet and training were both in place. Loved the pumps and strength. The Var addition to the end was great as it gave me that hard look and vascularity I was looking for. I have gained 3kg and lost 2kg. I wasn’t expecting massive gains nor massive losses. Overall, I know I haven't gained much but I am fairly happy with it as I have gained insights on how my body reacts to the gear. PCT ended mid-July 2016.

I am now researching to put together my next cycle and I have come to a conclusion that short cycles will give me a god ratio between gains and sides. I know there is contradicting information out there, some people are more comfortable with an 8 weeks cycle, some others with 4. However, I like very much the Bill Roberts’ short cycles approach for the reasons mentioned above. I am 39 and I think I should give the right amount of consideration to the gains and even more to the possible sides.

My stats now are as follows:
Age: 39
High: 1.93cm / 6’3’’
Weight: 99kg / 218 lbs
BFP: 10% (measure two days ago)

I have done blood works; kidney and liver functions are fine, HDL and LDL are fine too except for HDL ratio, 4.15 which is above the max recommended, 4. I have modified my diet to tackle this issue and hopefully it will be fixed before I am starting. I am also positive about the fact that short cycles, due to the length, have limited impact on lipids. E2 and Testosterone are all within the recommended ranges. I will use this results as a baseline and plan to take another blood test at 11 days into the first two weeks cycle and use that as a reference for the following two weekers.

The protocol I am following will be (2on, 2off, 2on, 2off, 2on, 4off). See attached image.



I have added HCG to be on the safe side, as the cycle alternation might have a negative impact on the HPTA by the end of it.

I have also added Aromasine for two reasons. First, because I will be using drugs which aromatise highly, being Test P and Dbol, so water retention will surely be an issue. I am also aiming to avoid the rebounce effect. Not so much bothered about gyno as I had to have my glands removed when I was a teenager. I think the dose will be sufficient to keep the E2 at the right levels but I will be able to see more based on future sides if any and blood test once I am on.

For the PCT, I have opted for Clomid over Nolva as I have some left form the previous cycle and didn’t give me any side last time I used it.

I am planning to repeat this cycle by three times with the option to add VAR to the seocnd and third 2 weekers.

I would very much appreciate any feedback from the community in regards to the stacking, the doses and the two weekers cycles in general.

Thanks for your help

 

[Test_Subject]

Bill Roberts has a lot of good ideas, but I don't feel that this is one of them.

Two on two off just sounds like partially shutting yourself down repeatedly.

 

[Colt44]

I think your approach is flawed. You're going to stay on 2 weeks then PCT 2 weeks and jump right back on directly after PCT? Then repeat?

 

[Big_paul]

A lot of guys ask about it. There may be something to running that cycle. Let us know how it works for you if you decide to run it. Start a journal.

 

[LiftAR]

You usually use nolva post cycle to stop the estrogen rebound. So no you didn't opt for Clomid instead you just decided you aren't using nolva...

 

[Cory Gabe]

2 on 2 off is the most aggressive way of running 2-weekers. Beside the fact that short blasts are not an approach everybody agrees with, I think it is definitely NOT ADVISABLE for someone with your level of AAS experience, because it would require to up the dosages way more than what you suggested.

I see you stating your lifting experience and goals only briefly. Before cycling, I really hope your diet and training are in check as you say. You seem to be someone who's invested time in researching the info, so hopefully you're doing AAS responsibly.

If (and only if) everything above is on point and you recovered well from your first cycle, in your shoes I'd run an 8 weeker with testosterone instead. For someone who's concerned with sides, consider that total time on is equal to 4 cycles of 2 weeks and it's generally well tolerated. I'd run 500-600 mg a wk (the 400mg you did is a bit on the low side). You can toss in the dbol at the beginning for 4 wks and check liver enzymes and lipids.
Adjust the AI preferably according to bloods and keep nolva on hand for gyno.
Hcg 200-250 eod is ok, imo.
The proviron just makes me horny, for the rest it just has novelty value for me.
If that pct worked, then it's ok. I usually do bloods to see my test levels have dropped enough before starting pct.

Good luck and be safe.

 

[robinodds]

Hi guys,

So, I have taken on board all your advice and I have decided to drop the 2 seekers for a slightly longer cycle.
I have decided to keep it short but long enough to see some results if it makes sense. Ultimately, the idea is to run two 8 weeks + PCT in a year with a nice break in between, get max gains and reduce sides.

Drugs used: Prop stacked with NPP. Key objectives are bulking obviously, and also achieve some joints protection. I have suffered lately with tennis elbow and I think NPP is the right type of drug for this issue.

In regards to the AI, I have used a combo of Arimidex first and Aromasin afterwards. Arimidex at the beginning as I will need E2 control for sure. Replace Arimidex with Aromasin two weeks prior the end of the cycle to avoid the E2 rebounce at the end of the cycle, moving into into the PCT phase to increase total testosterone by ~60% after 10 days @ 25mg/day and free testosterone by 100%.
I am not too sure about the doses and the frequencies as I using the standard ones I have found, so any input in regards would be much appreciated.

I have added Caber to maintain sexual functions which are likely to be affected by the NPP.

Here below is the plan. What do you guys think?

 

[Cory Gabe]

- Two 8 weekers in a year is a solid approach.

- Caber is not needed, keep your e2 in check for libido. If e2 is in range, but you feel the deca dick, lower your npp dosage and up the test. You should be able to feel the joint relief effect with even just 100mg/wk of npp.

- I wouldn't overcomplicate the usage of the AI. I mean, if you want to run it like that it's still ok, remember to keep the e2 in range and do bloods for confirmation. Npp may skew the results, read the stickies in the lab testing section. When you wrote 25mg ed of asin I suppose it was a typo and the table is correct.

- Don't run ostarine during pct. I don't care what they say about it being only mildly suppressive at lower dosages. PCT is not the time to find out that is not your case or that maybe what you've been sold is not osta.

- HCG is ok. If that gives you e2 sides, anecdotally I've noticed more frequent injections at a lower dosage make the issue more manageable. Remember, AI is not effective against hcg aromatisation.

- Starting the serm on week 9 is a bit early, imo. I would wait at least 10 days and get bloods to see where your test is.

Good luck.

 

[Colt44]

What is this estrogen rebound you speak of?

You will have absolutely no joint protection from npp. It may disguise any joint discomfort you have but that will just increase your likelihood of further injury.

 

[gummo]

I'm at the end of 3 2 on 4 off cycles and I wouldn't recommend it. I'd do an after action review, but I don't want to highjack your thread.

Also, in my experience (which is probably less than colt's) deca is okay for joint protection. You just can't go crazy with your workouts because your joints now feel better. You can absolutely do more damage to them without realizing it. I've made that mistake.

 

[Kimpe]

Here below is the plan. What do you guys think?

View attachment 53939

haha did you get that ostarine pct idea from dylan gemelli? What a joke to use SARMS on pct

 

[mercury]

the short cycles have been discussed many times over, it is complete nonsense it does nothing, it is just waste of good gear. if you want to gain something you run regular 12 weeks cycle

 

[RodgerThat]

the short cycles have been discussed many times over, it is complete nonsense it does nothing, it is just waste of good gear. if you want to gain something you run regular 12 weeks cycle

I've run the two weeker cycles for 3 rounds of 2 weeks on 2 weeks off with test P and dbol. I'll tell you this! It's great if you are looking to put on size quick then drop it quick then feel like a God then feel like shit then have incredible pumps then get gyno. The dosages required put you at a constant fluctuation of hormones and a rollercoaster ride of sides and all the results made are water weight and what muscle you do gain you lose during the two week period inbetween.

It was my first cycle and I followed bill Roberts program to a T with prop and dbol and I got gyno and stretch marks to show for it and nothing else. Highly advice against!

 

[mercury]

I've run the two weeker cycles for 3 rounds of 2 weeks on 2 weeks off with test P and dbol. I'll tell you this! It's great if you are looking to put on size quick then drop it quick then feel like a God then feel like shit then have incredible pumps then get gyno. The dosages required put you at a constant fluctuation of hormones and a rollercoaster ride of sides and all the results made are water weight and what muscle you do gain you lose during the two week period inbetween.

It was my first cycle and I followed bill Roberts program to a T with prop and dbol and I got gyno and stretch marks to show for it and nothing else. Highly advice against!

is William Llewellyn the same a bill Roberts, I think that he is using two names. I have nothing else to say that the guy is clueless. He is not scientist, not researcher just opportunist to sell some worthless book, anybody else could do.

He gathered some nonsense posted by people on internet into the book claiming that those are his own etc.

 

[rugerjitsu]

It's just not a good idea...back to the drawing board.

 

[Colt44]

is William Llewellyn the same a bill Roberts, I think that he is using two names. I have nothing else to say that the guy is clueless. He is not scientist, not researcher just opportunist to sell some worthless book, anybody else could do.

He gathered some nonsense posted by people on internet into the book claiming that those are his own etc.

Is that a quote or are you that dense? You seem somewhat intelligent at certain points. Mostly when it serves you best.

 

[mercury]

Is that a quote or are you that dense? You seem somewhat intelligent at certain points. Mostly when it serves you best.

 

[robinodds]

Hi all,

Thanks for all your feedback. I already decided to drop the 2 weekers for an 2 x 8 weeks cycle in a year.

Now, I was fairly happy with last 8 weeks plan I put together (see the spreadsheet with the breakdown above) unfortunately, I cannot get hold of the NPP. So I am back to the drawing board for the third time.

Can you guys please help me with this?

I am looking to put together a 8 weeks short ester bulking cycle. I would like to use steroids that will allow me to keep gains and with low sides. These are the ones I am researching into at the moment: Test P, Materone P, Dbol, Var and Winstrol
Tren A is also something I have looked at, but to be honest, I am fine to pin EOD but not ED as it is required when using Tren A.

I am planning to start 8 weeks at the beginning of January, followed by a 4 weeks PCT and an 8 weeks break. After that I would like to start another 8 weeker which will be the second and last of the year. I am not looking to cruise in between the two cycles.

Do you have any advise for a plan that ticks these boxes?

Thanks

 

[Test_Subject]

I am looking to put together a 8 weeks short ester bulking cycle. I would like to use steroids that will allow me to keep gains and with low sides. These are the ones I am researching into at the moment: Test P, Materone P, Dbol, Var and Winstrol
Tren A is also something I have looked at, but to be honest, I am fine to pin EOD but not ED as it is required when using Tren A.

Two things: any steroid will "allow you to keep gains" if you keep your diet and training up after your cycle.

Also, you can get away with acetate esters EOD. It works just fine.