Testosterone or SARMs?

[cargin]

In the past several months I've lost a good bit of weight using Tirzepatide (50 pounds) and I'm looking to go into maintenance soon. Unfortunately I have also lost a lot of muscle during this period, I'd blame most of it on lethargy causing me to avoid working out.

I was wondering if it would be smarter for me to do a little DIY TRT with test-c or use a SARM like ostarine. Overall I'm looking for mild effects, nothing crazy. My testosterone levels are already in the 800's naturally so I didn't think it would be smart to add TRT on top (I don't want to lose hair or have my testes shrink) and I also would not look forward to IM injections and the hassle it all is. SARMs would be way easier and far less side effects. My only qualm is that Ostarine never passed phase 3 trials nor is it as widely used as Testosterone. I'm just not sure if I'll need PCT or whatever if I use say 100-200mg of testosterone per week.

 

[Jin23]

In the past several months I've lost a good bit of weight using Tirzepatide (50 pounds) and I'm looking to go into maintenance soon. Unfortunately I have also lost a lot of muscle during this period, I'd blame most of it on lethargy causing me to avoid working out.

I was wondering if it would be smarter for me to do a little DIY TRT with test-c or use a SARM like ostarine. Overall I'm looking for mild effects, nothing crazy. My testosterone levels are already in the 800's naturally so I didn't think it would be smart to add TRT on top (I don't want to lose hair or have my testes shrink) and I also would not look forward to IM injections and the hassle it all is. SARMs would be way easier and far less side effects. My only qualm is that Ostarine never passed phase 3 trials nor is it as widely used as Testosterone. I'm just not sure if I'll need PCT or whatever if I use say 100-200mg of testosterone per week.

You'd need pct in both instances, meaning, you'd get shut down eitherway.

It's easier regaining some muscle when transitioning from a cut to a slight bulk. You don't need drugs and it doesn't sound like you are ready for them anyway.

If anything, maybe take something to lower your shgb and at the same time increase TT. Like cistanche + tongkat maybe.

 

[cargin]

You'd need pct in both instances, meaning, you'd get shut down eitherway.

In my preliminary reading it seemed like SARMs such as Ostarine don't suppress endogenous T enough to require PCT? I'll keep that in mind though since it seems like it's not that cut and dry.

You don't need drugs and it doesn't sound like you are ready for them anyway.

Yeah, I think you might be right. I haven't made an honest attempt at a lean bulk yet and it might be worth seeing how much I can gain back while maintaining leanness before trying to dive into TRT/SARMs.

Like cistanche + tongkat maybe.

Never heard of cistanche but does tongkat work? I've heard there isn't much evidence for its effectiveness although I should probably do some more research on that before dismissing it.

 

[Jin23]

In my preliminary reading it seemed like SARMs such as Ostarine don't suppress endogenous T enough to require PCT? I'll keep that in mind though since it seems like it's not that cut and dry.


Yeah, I think you might be right. I haven't made an honest attempt at a lean bulk yet and it might be worth seeing how much I can gain back while maintaining leanness before trying to dive into TRT/SARMs.


Never heard of cistanche but does tongkat work? I've heard there isn't much evidence for its effectiveness although I should probably do some more research on that before dismissing it.

No, sarms definitely shut you down.

Cistanche works. It's an AR antagonist at the hypothalamus, besides some other mechanisms. And tongkat also works yes. Just don't use it every day, as you'll get low e2 symptoms.

 

[BabaJagga]

why bother at all if you are scared of small balls, hair falling out, dont wanna inject and you have high natural test?

 

[cargin]

why bother at all if you are scared of small balls, hair falling out, dont wanna inject and you have high natural test?

Lmao good point, maybe part of me was looking for an answer like this. I don't really mind injecting all that much, it's a minor thing, but yeah the other parts are very true. If I had to answer it would be "I want to look more muscular without expending as much time and energy" as time and energy are not in endless supply and I'm more willing to risk my health than split my time.

 

[BabaJagga]

i get it, everyone wanna speedrun the progress (myself included) but you should be ready for the downsides. im okay with being infertile, with small balls, almost no sperm loads, balding and fact i will be on for years, if not forever.

even enhanced, you will have to spend time training... as natural i was in gym 5-6x per week, every week no matter what. same as enhanced cause i dont wanna waste blast. you should think more about this...

 

[cargin]

i get it, everyone wanna speedrun the progress (myself included) but you should be ready for the downsides. im okay with being infertile, with small balls, almost no sperm loads, balding and fact i will be on for years, if not forever.

even enhanced, you will have to spend time training... as natural i was in gym 5-6x per week, every week no matter what. same as enhanced cause i dont wanna waste blast. you should think more about this...

Thanks. I get that I'll have to keep training and it's not like I don't enjoy it, it's great for mental health. Before beginning tirz I was in the gym around 12 hours a week but since beginning tirzepatide and getting busier, it's dropped down to maybe 6-8 hours a week. I'll try easing off the tirz which should help the lethargy and make me capable of eating enough protein.

I'm not ready for the side effects of major AAS use but I'm also not interested in crazy AAS results. I was very happy with my muscle beforehand but unhappy with the amount of adipose I had. Now that I've lost a lot of fat I am unhappy with the amount of muscle I have remaining. I guess insecurities are like a hydra, chop one head off and two more appear.

 

[BabaJagga]

Thanks. I get that I'll have to keep training and it's not like I don't enjoy it, it's great for mental health. Before beginning tirz I was in the gym around 12 hours a week but since beginning tirzepatide and getting busier, it's dropped down to maybe 6-8 hours a week. I'll try easing off the tirz which should help the lethargy and make me capable of eating enough protein.

I'm not ready for the side effects of major AAS use but I'm also not interested in crazy AAS results. I was very happy with my muscle beforehand but unhappy with the amount of adipose I had. Now that I've lost a lot of fat I am unhappy with the amount of muscle I have remaining. I guess insecurities are like a hydra, chop one head off and two more appear.

so stop tirz or lower your dose, start eating and train. you will see results, especially with rebound. not sure how well you respond to tirz, 2,5mg / week was enough for me to almost not eat, 5mg for one week and i was unable to eat for 3 days, it was brutal. but i didnt experience lack of energy for training.

maybe try timing your carbs around gym time. helps a ton for me.
its okay to not juice cause of negative effects, i would say its smarter approach. steroids are there for decades and will be there for another decades so if you decide im future that you wanna start, you can do it any day

 

[AlwaysHungry]

I’m using from 18-19 years old do I regret it ? Not yet but I will if I can’t have children but that’s a risk I decided to take and for me that’s only the most disturbing thing about steroids other than that I didn’t have any problem at least yet. But one other thing that it can get old is married to the needle

 

[Ouch]

How old are you?

 

[AlwaysHungry]

How old are you?

29

 

[Ouch]

29

I meant the OP. He never mentioned his age, or stats or anything

 

[cargin]

I meant the OP. He never mentioned his age, or stats or anything

I'm 22M, 5'9, SW208, CW158

 

[PaintDrinker]

Sarms are retarded don’t take them. Testosterone alone is much safer.

 

[Ouch]

I'm 22M, 5'9, SW208, CW158

Brother, at 22 you should stay far away from any anabolics or sarms right now. The exceptions being if you have the potential to be a pro athlete or bodybuilder. That’s it.

Pick an easy to follow program (i.e. Lean Gains / RPT) that you understand and can follow religiously for YEARS. Learn to track your nutrients and take at least 1.5g of protein per target goal weight.

Use proven supplements to keep your natty test as high as possible - tongkat, tribulus, etc…. That’s the path to getting bigger for you right now. Come back once you’ve learned your body and nutrition and have stuck with lifting religiously for years and then it’s a different story.

My $.02

 

[cargin]

Brother, at 22 you should stay far away from any anabolics or sarms right now. The exceptions being if you have the potential to be a pro athlete or bodybuilder. That’s it.

Pick an easy to follow program (i.e. Lean Gains / RPT) that you understand and can follow religiously for YEARS. Learn to track your nutrients and take at least 1.5g of protein per target goal weight.

Use proven supplements to keep your natty test as high as possible - tongkat, tribulus, etc…. That’s the path to getting bigger for you right now. Come back once you’ve learned your body and nutrition and have stuck with lifting religiously for years and then it’s a different story.

My $.02

I understand your insight and I do respect where you're coming from but I'd like to understand from more of a pragmatic approach what you deem to be an appropriate position to begin AAS from? It's hard to imagine there's something inherent about a bodybuilder that once they turn 30 or they hit 10 years of consistent lifting that they suddenly are ready to abuse steroids. In any case taking androgenic substances is going to be harmful no matter your age, and the motivation will pretty much always be vanity (with the occasional exception of strength) so I wanted to understand more about where you place your cutoff and what makes it "right" for someone to abuse their health in pursuit of looks?

From my position, AAS are a trade-off between health and looks, so why wait until looks matter less to my day-to-day life rather than when looks are going to be the guiding force for someone my age? I do understand the counter-argument that saying "wait until you are X age" provides some barrier to think about the consequences for someone who might have an underdeveloped brain, and thus make them less likely to use steroids in any capacity. But is that the only reason you advise waiting? Would like to know your thoughts.

 

[Ouch]

I understand your insight and I do respect where you're coming from but I'd like to understand from more of a pragmatic approach what you deem to be an appropriate position to begin AAS from? It's hard to imagine there's something inherent about a bodybuilder that once they turn 30 or they hit 10 years of consistent lifting that they suddenly are ready to abuse steroids. In any case taking androgenic substances is going to be harmful no matter your age, and the motivation will pretty much always be vanity (with the occasional exception of strength) so I wanted to understand more about where you place your cutoff and what makes it "right" for someone to abuse their health in pursuit of looks?

From my position, AAS are a trade-off between health and looks, so why wait until looks matter less to my day-to-day life rather than when looks are going to be the guiding force for someone my age? I do understand the counter-argument that saying "wait until you are X age" provides some barrier to think about the consequences for someone who might have an underdeveloped brain, and thus make them less likely to use steroids in any capacity. But is that the only reason you advise waiting? Would like to know your thoughts.

If you really want to get feedback, Id suggest starting a new thread simply asking this board’s opinion on whether you should or shouldn’t make the jump to using anabolics. There’s a lot of good ppl here who will give you an honest opinion.

Post your stats: age / weight / body fat / current workout and diet regimen / goals and reasons your considering trying a cycle.

My reasoning why I recommend waiting is primarily your age - you are in your peak natural T production stage. Even doing 1 cycle runs a risk of potential not recovering your natural production. You have to be willing to take that risk and the implications of worst case scenario.

Additionally, if your main goal is just to look better then it will take more than 1 cycle. And looking good and getting bigger is easily accomplished at 22 and what should be a natural T range somewhere btwn 600-800.

 

[Nidus]

Given all the advice you got here, why not go TRT. 200-250mg, a GLP1 and maybe 2-3iu GH while putting much more focus into food, sleep and training?

 

[cargin]

If you really want to get feedback, Id suggest starting a new thread simply asking this board’s opinion on whether you should or shouldn’t make the jump to using anabolics. There’s a lot of good ppl here who will give you an honest opinion.

Post your stats: age / weight / body fat / current workout and diet regimen / goals and reasons your considering trying a cycle.

My reasoning why I recommend waiting is primarily your age - you are in your peak natural T production stage. Even doing 1 cycle runs a risk of potential not recovering your natural production. You have to be willing to take that risk and the implications of worst case scenario.

Additionally, if your main goal is just to look better then it will take more than 1 cycle. And looking good and getting bigger is easily accomplished at 22 and what should be a natural T range somewhere btwn 600-800.

Thanks for your response, having more risk at peak natural T levels is a good reason not to hop on. So to understand what you're saying, as you get older the risk of not recovering natural production after a cycle decreases? Also I will make a thread like that, thanks.