The big run advice....

[NomadSpeed]

Hey All This is my first post on the Meso community platform. So pretty new here but looking forward to hear everyones expertise and insight. Also appreciate the very truthful responses I've seen in other threads thus far compared to some other forums I've experienced. In any case here is a quick run down of things on the plate.

I'm a sprinter at a high level with a concentration in the 200m. That being said the program I'm laying out is obviously not for putting on size but rather explosive speed and recovery and keeping and trying to keep any water weight from happening.

Quick Stats:
5'9
172lbs
Ideal race weight 160lbs
In the gym 4 times a week with upper and lower body splits, on the track 5 days week with volume high on mon, tues. Thurs speed work and sat hill work.

Program layout-
GW- 20mgs ED
Test P - 150mgs a week (TRT level)
Tbol - 11mg ED

The Test and Tbol would be short cycles with short periods off to keep receptors from being over exhausted causing adverse affects. This way continued progress could be aquired throughout the year.

Questions:
Do you think I should include an AI for the test at these dosages? What would you recommend?
Does Test P add a whole lot of water weight and aromatize fast?

Much appreciate the help and advice here.

 

[T&H]

Hey All This is my first post on the Meso community platform. So pretty new here but looking forward to hear everyones expertise and insight. Also appreciate the very truthful responses I've seen in other threads thus far compared to some other forums I've experienced. In any case here is a quick run down of things on the plate.

I'm a sprinter at a high level with a concentration in the 200m. That being said the program I'm laying out is obviously not for putting on size but rather explosive speed and recovery and keeping and trying to keep any water weight from happening.

Quick Stats:
5'9
172lbs
Ideal race weight 160lbs
In the gym 4 times a week with upper and lower body splits, on the track 5 days week with volume high on mon, tues. Thurs speed work and sat hill work.

Program layout-
GW- 20mgs ED
Test P - 150mgs a week (TRT level)
Tbol - 11mg ED

The Test and Tbol would be short cycles with short periods off to keep receptors from being over exhausted causing adverse affects. This way continued progress could be aquired throughout the year.

Questions:
Do you think I should include an AI for the test at these dosages? What would you recommend?
Does Test P add a whole lot of water weight and aromatize fast?

Much appreciate the help and advice here.

I only use Test C/E, never Prop. But I remember many guys saying less water weight compared to long ester. It's in and out pretty quick, you should know a week or two in.

I'm assuming this is your first time using testosterone. You won't know how much water you'll hold nor E2 conversion until you start and get bloodwork. Everyone metabolizes Test differently, so no one can tell you whether you need an AI. I certainly wouldn't take one without bloodwork or sides indicative of high E2.

I found Tbol personally useless, if anything I'd consider 20mg if you see little to no results with 11mg. Anyway, welcome.

 

[cmK9s33]

Hey All This is my first post on the Meso community platform. So pretty new here but looking forward to hear everyones expertise and insight. Also appreciate the very truthful responses I've seen in other threads thus far compared to some other forums I've experienced. In any case here is a quick run down of things on the plate.

I'm a sprinter at a high level with a concentration in the 200m. That being said the program I'm laying out is obviously not for putting on size but rather explosive speed and recovery and keeping and trying to keep any water weight from happening.

5'9
172lbs
Ideal race weight 160lbs
In the gym 4 times a week with upper and lower body splits, on the track 5 days week with volume high on mon, tues. Thurs speed work and sat hill work.

Program layout-
GW- 20mgs ED
Test P - 150mgs a week (TRT level)
Tbol - 11mg ED

If you're drug tested, skip GW and be careful about tbol. GW is easily detected and tbol typically is as well. And GW is not particularly useful for sprinters.

The Test and Tbol would be short cycles with short periods off to keep receptors from being over exhausted causing adverse affects. This way continued progress could be aquired throughout the year.

You still have a lot of reading to do my man. Receptors do not "get over exhausted." This is an old bro myth. Steroid use actually increases the numbers of androgen receptors one possesses.

And your receptor density or receptor count has nothing to do with adverse effects.

Questions:
Do you think I should include an AI for the test at these dosages? What would you recommend?

Highly unlikely because 1) you're likely quite lean if a sprinter and 2) very few guys have difficulties with that amount of test. But it would be imprudent to not at least have some AI handy just in case you're one of the unlucky ones.

Does Test P add a whole lot of water weight and aromatize fast?

The second least of any of the esters. Suspension being the only one that adds less water. But exactly how much you'll retain is difficult to say for any one person. But using test prop is going to keep it to a minimum.

 

[NomadSpeed]

I only use Test C/E, never Prop. But I remember many guys saying less water weight compared to long ester. It's in and out pretty quick, you should know a week or two in.

I'm assuming this is your first time using testosterone. You won't know how much water you'll hold nor E2 conversion until you start and get bloodwork. Everyone metabolizes Test differently, so no one can tell you whether you need an AI. I certainly wouldn't take one without bloodwork or sides indicative of high E2.

I found Tbol personally useless, if anything I'd consider 20mg if you see little to no results with 11mg. Anyway, welcome.

Thanks much for the reply and insight. Yes, this would be my first with test p and tbol. I'll see about getting some panels done, I know most say AI's are necessary for any type of aromatizing compound.

 

[NomadSpeed]

If you're drug tested, skip GW and be careful about tbol. GW is easily detected and tbol typically is as well. And GW is not particularly useful for sprinters.


You still have a lot of reading to do my man. Receptors do not "get over exhausted." This is an old bro myth. Steroid use actually increases the numbers of androgen receptors one possesses.

And your receptor density or receptor count has nothing to do with adverse effects.

Highly unlikely because 1) you're likely quite lean if a sprinter and 2) very few guys have difficulties with that amount of test. But it would be imprudent to not at least have some AI handy just in case you're one of the unlucky ones.

The second least of any of the esters. Suspension being the only one that adds less water. But exactly how much you'll retain is difficult to say for any one person. But using test prop is going to keep it to a minimum.

Much appreciate the in-depth response. I'll drop the GW then as suggested, I know its been a bit of the talk happening that it helps with endurance and recovery of other compounds. Always looking to learn from more versed guys. Thanks.

 

[Fattyone]

know most say AI's are necessary for any type of aromatizing compound.

If you’re somewhere where “most” are saying this.. log off and don’t go back.

I don’t break out the AI for even 800mg of test a week. Everyone is different and I’d say most don’t need them under 5-600mg a week.

 

[RomanMVP]

Just a thought, Since you're very concerned about "explosive speed" have you considered what Ben Johnson's coaches had him on back then? The magic ingredient was.........Winstrol. And it obviously worked beautifully for him, well, until he got caught. I don't know his in-depth story but his coaches may have had him on test also. He might be of interest to do a little research on.

 

[Big_paul]

Just a thought, Since you're very concerned about "explosive speed" have you considered what Ben Johnson's coaches had him on back then? The magic ingredient was.........Winstrol. And it obviously worked beautifully for him, well, until he got caught. I don't know his in-depth story but his coaches may have had him on test also. He might be of interest to do a little research on.

I was thinking the same thing . A bonus is it has a short half-life.

 

[NomadSpeed]

Just a thought, Since you're very concerned about "explosive speed" have you considered what Ben Johnson's coaches had him on back then? The magic ingredient was.........Winstrol. And it obviously worked beautifully for him, well, until he got caught. I don't know his in-depth story but his coaches may have had him on test also. He might be of interest to do a little research on.

Yes, I know the story well. The compound of choice was tbol but winstrol got thrown in by accident in transition thats what he got caught on. As well as the east germans created tbol solely for performance purposes. Winstrol is terrible on the tendons and joints as well. Thats why this was the go to here. Thank you for the input.

 

[NomadSpeed]

If you’re somewhere where “most” are saying this.. log off and don’t go back.

I don’t break out the AI for even 800mg of test a week. Everyone is different and I’d say most don’t need them under 5-600mg a week.

Thanks much for letting me know that. And the other site was elitefitness.com which seemed very meat headish

 

[NomadSpeed]

What do you guys think of the product N2Guard? Is it worth it?
Any thoughts on OSgear's products?

 

[RomanMVP]

Yes, it can be hard for some folks on the joints, but I never had a proble with it. I love the stuff, my favorite "lite" oral. Good shit, Maynard!

 

[RomanMVP]

What do you guys think of the product N2Guard? Is it worth it?
Any thoughts on OSgear's products?

Over-priced and over hyped. If you want to the amount listed on the label, you have to take 7 caps. Just use straight Tudca (1000mg.) NAC (1800-2400 mg) and you can always throw in some Milk Thistle extract. Nothing better for liver protection.

 

[T&H]

What do you guys think of the product N2Guard? Is it worth it?
Any thoughts on OSgear's products?

N2guard is snake oil, that entire site pushes trash and affiliated with that Dylan Germilli or whatever. Do not trust anything on Elite Fitness!

OSgear is a source on a few sites, I don't know enough about them to say. However, there are a few domestics here who you should consider with testing and good recent feedback. Spend some time researching and see if one stands out.

 

[cmK9s33]

Much appreciate the in-depth response. I'll drop the GW then as suggested, I know its been a bit of the talk happening that it helps with endurance and recovery of other compounds. Always looking to learn from more versed guys. Thanks.

Well many guys have reported that it helped with their endurance but it's the longer distance endurance. So not helpful for your sport. Add the risk of getting caught on a drug test and the (oh I feel the hate coming as I type this) carcinogenic risk/concern and I think it's not a drug for you.

 

[laclark89]

Thanks much for the reply and insight. Yes, this would be my first with test p and tbol. I'll see about getting some panels done, I know most say AI's are necessary for any type of aromatizing compound.

U might not even need a ai with just 150 prop especially with 3x a week injections

And t bol, I believe dosent aromatize.

 

[braden1]

Winstrol is terrible on the tendons and joints as well. Thats why this was the go to here. Thank you for the input.

Have you personally ran winstrol previously?

 

[NomadSpeed]

Have you personally ran winstrol previously?

I have and my joint killed me so had to pull it quick.

 

[NomadSpeed]

So, I just started test p at 50mgs 3x a week and tbol just yesterday. What I have notice thus far is that my weight jumped up quick which I’m thinking is water retention of sort as I’ve only take my 3rd shot.

I was taking hgh for 4 months at 2ius to heal up some things but as soon as I started the test p my joints were hurting a bit so I pulled it.

Do you think the test caused the hgh to affect E2 levels causing the weight increase? Or is this just an initial reaction to the extra test in my body to sort through?

I was at 172lbs and jumped to 176,178

 

[I6JQdr06]

Just a thought, Since you're very concerned about "explosive speed" have you considered what Ben Johnson's coaches had him on back then? The magic ingredient was.........Winstrol. And it obviously worked beautifully for him, well, until he got caught. I don't know his in-depth story but his coaches may have had him on test also. He might be of interest to do a little research on.

Ben Johnson wasn’t on Winstrol because anyone thought it would lead to explosive speed. He was on it because he thought he was on Furazabol which at the time was undetectable.