The Calisthenics Thread

[Arnold Strong]

I bought a book once called convict conditioning. Now, I'm pretty developed myself and well over 200 lbs and my take on some of this stuff is it's good to incorporate what you can but some of it just isn't realistic for a bigger guy to be doing. The reason I say that is because its simply injury prone things for guys who are at a certain level of development.

Take the pistol squat for example, you don't see anyone of large stature doing them for a reason.

You cannot neglect physics here. It's in any physical activity from swimming to tennis to cycling, and even gymnastics as mentioned earlier. There is a good reason you don't see gigantic "bar stars" out here or muscled up swimmers. The body doesn't move the same way once muscle mass is added. Its a matter of flexibility to a large degree. Sure, you can try to be flexible but when there is more.muscle around a joint it's damn near impossible to duplicate the same thing someone weighing less could do. Just like a guy who has the strength and flexibility to do typewriter pullup and pistol squats all day long but would be crushed with a 315 lb load on a bar. Its apples to oranges

"People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."

 

[johntt44]

Not sure why you keep bringing up gymnastics in a calisthenics thread, but yes, the taller and heavier you are the harder calisthenics gets. And that's a good thing, it means you can develop more strength using just your body weight. A pull up, for example, is a hell of a lot more impressive if performed by a heavy man with long arms than by a light, short man. Those of us on the taller side get more out of it, smaller folks will need to start adding weight sooner.

BTW, you can be pretty damn heavy and pretty damn tall to do pull ups, anyone who thinks he can't because he's too big is full of it. He's just weak and fat.

What's next? running sucks and I won't run because it favors tall, skinny guys? I won't run because I'll never sprint 100m under 10s?

In any case the reason gymnasts are short is because, unlike weightlifting and combat sports, there are no weight classes in gymnastics. If those sports didn't have weight classes weightlifting would be dominated by the heaviest and combat sports by welterweights and middleweights.

Calisthenics is fun and makes you strong. And those are reasons enough for me, and many others, to do it. It's very satisfying to finally be able to do an exercise that seemed impossible just a few weeks, or months ago. Take for example the video I posted earlier showing how to do a human flag. No matter their height or weight, no one can do that the first time they try, and the progression to get there is usually hard and long. But put in the work and you'll reach the next level.

Combat sports without weight classes would be dominated by middle and welterweights? So Floyd Mayweather would beat Mike Tyson? Conor McGregor would beat Jon Jones or Broc Lesnar? No!

 

[Arnold Strong]

Combat sports without weight classes would be dominated by middle and welterweights? So Floyd Mayweather would beat Mike Tyson? Conor McGregor would beat Jon Jones or Broc Lesnar? No!

I don't know a single combat sport where the HW division isn't dead. The talent pool at the heaviest, and the lightest, end of the spectrum simply does not have the depth of the middle. In that sense the MW and WW divisions dominate the sport. That's where all the good fights take place. As of right now, I cannot think of a single HW match up I would be interested in watching.

FMJ and McGregor are lightweights, and hence have no business in this discussion. Tyson is 5'10" and competed at the lower end of the HW division beating larger men than him his entire career, being living proof skill beats size. Same as Fedor, who is basically a fat middleweight but reigned supreme over the HW division. Back in the Pride days, where fighters of different weight classes fought each other there were WW and MW who consistently beat LHW and HW fighters, Sakuraba for example.

HW fighters generally have a power and reach advantage, but typically lack speed, endurance and overall skill. Even Lesnar, who is a legit athletic freak, one of the few men in history about who you can actually say moves like a MW but hits as a HW, was beaten by considerably smaller men than himself, Velasquez was 30 lbs lighter than him when he beat him. Size is not all.

Let's not derail the thread, though. Who wants to talk about calisthenics?

 

[Arnold Strong]

While on the subject of pistol squats, let me introduce to you Dominic Sky, at 182cm and 90kg (i.e. the prototypical 6', 200lbs man everyone talks about) he's an outstanding athlete. Here he is performing 50 pistol squats in a row:



And here he is deadlifting 200kg (440 lbs):



And here he is just showing off:

 

[showstoppa]

View attachment 77085

Why because I am right? Progressive overload is king no matter if that comes from increase weight on the bar or using leverage to move the center of mass to make the lift harder. Take pull-ups for example, a person doing full range pull-ups that weighs 260 lbs is going to get more out of it than somebody that is 130. Will it take the person weighing 260 longer to be able to do full range? Absolutely but if he is doing 50% of his body weight using some means of assistance he is using the same as the 130lbs guy uses with no assistance. Once he had gained enough strength he would have had an increase in weight lifted of 130lbs compared to a much smaller amount for the 130lbs guy. When in a caloric surplus and positive nitrogen state gains in strength =gains in muscle.

As far as understand the physics, I have an engineering degree, I understand it perfectly fine. It's you that doesn't understand it's the journey and the corresponding gains in strength that causes the muscle growth. The heavier person naturally has more room for gains in strength when it comes to calisthenics. Sure the smaller guy can add weight but weighted exercises are even harder to progress in.

 

[showstoppa]

Haha there is not a single progression in convict conditioning that shouldn't be able to be completed within 6 months of training hem outside of one arm pull-ups. That book is garbage.

As far as pistol squats go, klokov can do them, so can many other big guys who actually take care of their knees and work mobility. Has nothing to do with size and all about weakness in training. That's why you should work that weakness, no different than using he conjugate method. Improve the weakness and you improve the body as a whole. Start with light progressions and work from there.

As far as big guys go.... see that's funny could have sworn I have seen multiple videos of kai smoking muscle ups, ring work, handstands etc. again it has nothing to do with size, it's that people are not good at certain things due to gaps in training and instead of working a weak point through proper training and progressions they would rather work a strong point. Funny how those from the golden era did all kinds of bodyweight stuff...they looked pretty good imo.

Now if you want to step on stage and be a legit bodybuilder, then calisthenics might not be for you. But for physique guys, normal gym rats and normal guys, calisthenics should play a large part in your training.

 

[Arnold Strong]

Haha there is not a single progression in convict conditioning that shouldn't be able to be completed within 6 months of training hem outside of one arm pull-ups. That book is garbage.

Yes, the exercises in Convict Conditioning are pretty basic, and the progressions suggested somewhat suspect. A pistol squat is a very basic movement, I wouldn't even consider it calisthenics 101, more like a prerequisite to it. Only someone with the athleticism of an arthritic grandma would fail to do them after 6 months.

I suspect most reading this have more than enough strength to perform a pistol, after all if you can squat your body weight on a barbell you can probably do a body weight squat on one leg. It doesn't require additional flexibility, what is missing is mostly balance.

I wonder if doing some basic slacklining would help. It's pretty fun to do:


One arm pull ups are actually not that difficult to master if you simply gradually add weight to your body. Again, if you gradually work your way up to doing pull ups with your body weight on your weight belt, as demonstrated here by the great Marcus Bondi, who is in his fifties, but has no problem doing pull ups with 100kg on his weight belt:


He's got a one arm chin-up tutorial as well:

 

[johntt44]

I don't know a single combat sport where the HW division isn't dead. The talent pool at the heaviest, and the lightest, end of the spectrum simply does not have the depth of the middle. In that sense the MW and WW divisions dominate the sport. That's where all the good fights take place. As of right now, I cannot think of a single HW match up I would be interested in watching.

FMJ and McGregor are lightweights, and hence have no business in this discussion. Tyson is 5'10" and competed at the lower end of the HW division beating larger men than him his entire career, being living proof skill beats size. Same as Fedor, who is basically a fat middleweight but reigned supreme over the HW division. Back in the Pride days, where fighters of different weight classes fought each other there were WW and MW who consistently beat LHW and HW fighters, Sakuraba for example.

HW fighters generally have a power and reach advantage, but typically lack speed, endurance and overall skill. Even Lesnar, who is a legit athletic freak, one of the few men in history about who you can actually say moves like a MW but hits as a HW, was beaten by considerably smaller men than himself, Velasquez was 30 lbs lighter than him when he beat him. Size is not all.

Let's not derail the thread, though. Who wants to talk about calisthenics?

Thanks, you just made my point for me. NO mw or ww would/could beat Tyson or Velasquez. That's what I was saying. It would only take 1 skilled Hw and it would be over. Velasquez is 230lbs not 150-160. The MW and WW are the most competitive though.

 

[Arnold Strong]

Thanks, you just made my point for me. NO mw or ww would/could beat Tyson or Velasquez. That's what I was saying. It would only take 1 skilled Hw and it would be over. Velasquez is 230lbs not 150-160. The MW and WW are the most competitive though.

This falls into the fantasy sports category, but I'll bite.

Tyson himself acknowledged Ali, a HW, and LaMotta, a MW, would have definitely beat him. Both Ali and Tyson agreed that Sugar Ray Robinson (who beat LaMotta several times) was the greatest boxer of all time. Robinson fought at WW and MW, and was 5'11 with a 72" reach, Tyson is 5'10 with a 71" reach so if Robinson outboxes Tyson but Tyson overpowers Robinson, who wins? I have no idea, but I'd pay to watch.

Cain Velasquez is 6'1 and has a 77" reach and competes as a HW, but is actually about the same size as the last few MW champions: Bisping 6'1 / 75", Rockhold 6'3 / 77", Weidman 6'2 / 78", Silva 6'2 / 77". Velasquez might be 230lbs, but he's like at 20%-30% BF, meaning he's carrying 45-55lbs of fat. At 10% BF he would be 195-200lbs, which is the walk around weight of most MW before the weight cut (i.e. before spending a few days starving and dehydrating themselves) during which a fighter typically loses 5%-10% weight. Velasquez would easily make the cut to 185lbs, the MW limit. He's basically an out of shape MW.

You are saying none of those four MW champs could beat Velasquez? I disagree, I would favor at least two of them over him, carrying extra fat does not offer any athletic advantage and the MW are more skilled. One thing is for sure, any of them would do better against him that Lesnar, who, BTW, is a superheavyweight, he has to cut weight to make the upper limit of the HW division.

 

[johntt44]

This falls into the fantasy sports category, but I'll bite.

Tyson himself acknowledged Ali, a HW, and LaMotta, a MW, would have definitely beat him. Both Ali and Tyson agreed that Sugar Ray Robinson (who beat LaMotta several times) was the greatest boxer of all time. Robinson fought at WW and MW, and was 5'11 with a 72" reach, Tyson is 5'10 with a 71" reach so if Robinson outboxes Tyson but Tyson overpowers Robinson, who wins? I have no idea, but I'd pay to watch.

Cain Velasquez is 6'1 and has a 77" reach and competes as a HW, but is actually about the same size as the last few MW champions: Bisping 6'1 / 75", Rockhold 6'3 / 77", Weidman 6'2 / 78", Silva 6'2 / 77". Velasquez might be 230lbs, but he's like at 20%-30% BF, meaning he's carrying 45-55lbs of fat. At 10% BF he would be 195-200lbs, which is the walk around weight of most MW before the weight cut (i.e. before spending a few days starving and dehydrating themselves) during which a fighter typically loses 5%-10% weight. Velasquez would easily make the cut to 185lbs, the MW limit. He's basically an out of shape MW.

You are saying none of those four MW champs could beat Velasquez? I disagree, I would favor at least two of them over him, carrying extra fat does not offer any athletic advantage and the MW are more skilled. One thing is for sure, any of them would do better against him that Lesnar, who, BTW, is a superheavyweight, he has to cut weight to make the upper limit of the HW division.

Didn't mean to hijack your thread. You also have to take into account frame size not just height and reach. Tyson, Velasquez, etc aren't meant to be middleweights. Velasquez has a bigger frame than Bisping and Silva. Of 2 equally skilled people, the bigger/stronger would win. Those exercises you posted are cool. I hadnt seen some of them before.

 

[Arnold Strong]

Of 2 equally skilled people, the bigger/stronger would win.

Why the bigger/stronger? Why not the fastest? The most flexible? The one with better endurance?

I just find it funny when discussing calisthenics these movements are impossible for big men, but when discussing fighting suddenly big men are just as skilled and can do it all. What is it? Are big men unbalanced stiffs who can't do a pistol squat or unbeatable super-athletes?

Those exercises you posted are cool. I hadnt seen some of them before.

You have probably seen this one before, but I think it deserves a mention as it is an underrated core exercise: The Turkish get-up



Big/strong men can do it with some extra weight for added challenge:

 

[CAswole]

I like this stuff. I did alot of it when i was 145. At 215 I'm not so sure. I'm sure it could be done though. Who's strong though? A guy doing muscle ups or the guy deadlifting 600? I think both6are but it's very rare to see a guy who can do both. Kinda pick your poison type situation.

 

[Arnold Strong]

I like this stuff. I did alot of it when i was 145. At 215 I'm not so sure. I'm sure it could be done though. Who's strong though? A guy doing muscle ups or the guy deadlifting 600? I think both6are but it's very rare to see a guy who can do both. Kinda pick your poison type situation.

What about supersetting deadlifts and muscle ups, and throwing some backflips into the mix?



Granted, he's only deadlifting 500lbs, but I give him a pass because he has plenty of other videos where he deadlifts 600+ and is a cool guy overall.

 

[CAswole]

What about supersetting deadlifts and muscle ups, and throwing some backflips into the mix?



Granted, he's only deadlifting 500lbs, but I give him a pass because he has plenty of other videos where he deadlifts 600+ and is a cool guy overall.

Lol yup this is good shit for sure. As i said I'm sure it can be done and you proved that. To be honest though this stuff screams imminent injury to me.