Bizzark1
Member
Worth remembering, the vast majority of people have little to be concerned about in regards to high HCT unless they have polycythemia vera
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Just read a study where mortality rate of ppl was lower for ppl with an HCT from 48 to 52. With 54 to be the maximum healthy limit.
So it seems it's better to have an higher HCT than a lower one all things considered
While TB500 is studied, none of them really measure blood cell count, some measured that the oxygen transport was improved but not exactly in deep detail, hence suggestions that EPO is stimulated.
Links for reference:
TGF-β inhibitors stimulate red blood cell production by enhancing self-renewal of BFU-E erythroid progenitors - PMC
The type III TGF-β receptor is a marker that distinguishes “early” and “late” BFU-Es. TGF-β inhibitors increase early BFU-E cell self-renewal and total erythroblast production.
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Again, they did not really measure the hematocrit or other bloodmarkers changes which could be relevant
As mentioned before, it is not well studied or studied at all. I only made experience with this case 2x first hand in person with someone i know in the gym.
He had a shoulder, gyno and feet surgery within a month and blasted a ton of TB500 and BPC together with GH to accelerate the healing.
After Bloodwork showed a hematocrit of 53 (from 48) within 2 months while on cruise of 200mg Test he decided to visit a Hematologist. He then diagnosed the extremely high TGFß and had him donate blood which only nuked his iron levels. So he got a medication which inhibits the red blood cell production for a month and the TGFß factor slowed down. It is still elevated but went down greatly.
I did not use reddit as a source, i simply wanted to put it out there esp. when AAS are in play.
Hope this could clear things up and help a bit more, i am happy to talk about this in direct messages too as its really hard to find proper information regarding this and i find it an interesting topic overall
I could imagine that just alone the oxygen transport is beneficial but i wonder how this would change if you have high HK, high thrombocytes and slightly elevated BP.
Archives of Urology and Nephrology | Medires
Archives of Urology and Nephrology (AUN) is a peer-reviewed journal publishing innovative research in urology and nephrology on an international scale.
www.mediresonline.org
All things considered so you need to have BP and other possible parameters in check, if you have those an higher hematocrit seems like it's beneficial
Quite interesting to see, i came across a similar study from Dean, a UK Endocrinologist, he shared it on his Instagram Story in which a HK of 48-50 is considered healthy as long as you remain active and do sports.
I personally always get very frequent headaches once i my HK goes over 49
Bizzark1
Member
The thrombotic features would make a higher HCT more of a concern id imagine.
Without those or elevated BP it's quite possibly "healthier" to have elevated HCT, or at least not a health risk.
Spaceman Spiff
Subscriber
thats not used for erythrocytosis.... which we are talking about
Spaceman Spiff
Subscriber
That is erythrocytosis.(Could argue polycythemia)
This is not the same as "Polycythemia Vera"
halan1
Member
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bigMoJo
Member
Spaceman,
Just to clarify...
Erythrocytosis is the umbrella both polycythemia vera (the cancer), and secondary polycythemia vera (external or AAS induced) fall under... is that your understanding as well?
So, those medications are for polycythemia vera (cancer), correct?
Therefore, we with AAS induced erythrocytosis (secondary polycythemia vera) are still SOL.
Spaceman Spiff
Subscriber
Polycythemia/Erthrocyotosis having a high hgb/hcg/r c
Can be caused by PV or other conditions that may increase erythropoietin levels.
Polycythemia vera is a cancerous condition.
They try to not use the term polycythemia(not vera) to prevent confusion.
Those drugs are for the cancerous condition.
You won't get secondary polycythemia vera from AAS.
But you can get Erthrocyotosis (technically polycythemia) from AAS
bigMoJo
Member
Which "Dean" in UK Endocrinology are you referring? There's four of them. I went to school with one. I wonder if it's my classmate.
Dont know his last name, he does this anabolic round table with Vig. Steve. Dean himself shares a few interesting bits every now and then
Ateam2023
Member
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bigMoJo
Member
Ok, yes, PV is the cancer, but a discrepancy in the remaining term(s) for "external" factors (such as AAS).
No worries bro. My understanding (and my hematologist's diagnosis) for AAS induced erythrocytosis is "Secondary PV." After going through a search and viewing how it's defined online, I see your way of defining/term is correct. However, I also see that Secondary PV is also correct (I think you'll find that as well).
I know this subject is important to you as it is to me, and I don't want to waste your time on "semantics." I was thrown off when I didn't understand the way you termed it, so I'll keep it in mind going forward.
Thank you for clarifying!
Spaceman Spiff
Subscriber
I would clarify that term with your doctor about " secondary PV"
You can't get a secondary PV from AAS. If does not give a positive JAK2 mutation
bigMoJo
Member
Spaceman,
Please take a look at the below linked paper... this is where I'm getting that "definition." Essentially, they are terming anything other than cancerous PV as "secondary." Let me know if you extrapolate the same conclusion.
Spaceman Spiff
Subscriber
Secondary PV...
PV is the acronym for polycythemia vera
Paper is about secondary polycythemia
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