The theory to HCG (not the same old question)

[c19]

Hi guys,

Let me start of by saying I understand why people use hcg as an adjunct and I can also see the argument against it. I'm also well educated (part of my degree) in Endocrinology, but a lot of you guys have done more reading / know these specifics areas a lot better than I do.

My question is, why do you supplement hcg and not LH directly. You're messing with more feedback loops than necessary to achieve the desired effect? When you supplement testosterone, your test and other androgen levels drop, but if you supplement hcg, you're also interfering with your FSH and sperm production?

I am in no way saying you're wrong to supplement hcg, there's probably a reason I just am not seeing?

Tl;Dr: Why supplement HCG and not LH to prevent testicular atrophy?
Thanks!

 

[jaggarr]

When you supplement testosterone both LH and FSH levels drop. You can take LH to increase your own T production but you are left without a FSH mimicking agents and will not produce sperm. While your leydig cells won't atrophy, you could be shooting blanks and possibly become infertile. Whose to say ones desired effect isn't to support both feedback loops. However there is a 3rd feedback loop being effected, that being thyroid. HCG mimics all three LH,FSH,and TSH. However the strength of HCG's reaction is not as strong as the original of any of the three so they are all minimally effected.

That being said, why not take "Human Menopausal Gonadotropin (hMG)" instead of HCG or LH alone? I think it just boils down to who will prescribe. LH, FSH, and hMG are all considered infertility drugs at heart with no off label use. HCG is also considered an infertility drug but its off label use is more widespread and more likely to be the first choice a prescription because that's what everyone else is prescribing. Plus those looking for a PCT read forums and follow everyone elses PCT thus making HCG in high demand.

 

[c19]

That makes sense thanks. I didn't really think about negative feedback affecting FSH levels since they aren't stimulating testosterone, but I guess it's just a system not designed for exogenous compounds. So just to be clear, you're saying that supplemental test will cause negative feedback at the level of hcg production and not just at the LH production stage?

Thanks for the reply, appricate the informatin!

 

[jaggarr]

supplementing test will cause a negative feedback loop to shut down Gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). GnRH is responsible for telling your pituitary to release both LH and FSH. One hormone to control the release to two.

HCG is not produced by males, only females who have a placenta.. aka pregnant.

 

[Big_paul]

This would be a good for Doc Scally.

 

[Michael Scally MD]

Hi guys,

Let me start of by saying I understand why people use hcg as an adjunct and I can also see the argument against it. I'm also well educated (part of my degree) in Endocrinology, but a lot of you guys have done more reading / know these specifics areas a lot better than I do.

My question is, why do you supplement hcg and not LH directly. You're messing with more feedback loops than necessary to achieve the desired effect? When you supplement testosterone, your test and other androgen levels drop, but if you supplement hcg, you're also interfering with your FSH and sperm production?

I am in no way saying you're wrong to supplement hcg, there's probably a reason I just am not seeing?

Tl;Dr: Why supplement HCG and not LH to prevent testicular atrophy?
Thanks!

Then you have missed some very basic facts. As it is said, "This is elementary." Check your notes.

 

[whodatnation]

Dr. Scally can you please retort with him not in mind and for us guys that would love to hear you retort on this issue. And if you don't mind could you touch base on the new use of Hmg for pct.
I have read a lot but still don't see where it would benefit yet and thought maybe you have some insight on it.I will make a thread DR. after reading his entire post I see why you didn't reply lol

 

[c19]

Then you have missed some very basic facts. As it is said, "This is elementary." Check your notes.

Hi,
First of, thanks for the reply. Its amazing to have someone with your expertise here. I studied it, and I have refreshed what I feel necessary for cycling, but my career intrestes are elsewhere, and hence its been a while since reviewing my endochron. I probably shouldn't have said I was "well educated". What I was trying to get accross is that I was looking for an answer in scientific terms and that I was aware of the hormones involved. I was never really educated in male endocrine pathology, only healthy physiology, and was just curious.

May I ask a second question? If I don't notice any testicular atrophy, would there be any benefit to supplementing hcg? I'm on 600mg test e a week. I'm 4 weeks in, and just finished my kick starting prop at 350mg a week. Given I've had four weeks for the test e to build up, with another 350 on top of it from the prop, I would have expected atrophy by now. I actually have my hcg on hand but I planned to wait until I notice atrophy to use it (I'm keeping very close eye and would start instantly if I notice it). Should I run it anyway or just wait.

On a side note; I know some people never use hcg. I didn't use it on my last cycle and wanted to take it this cycle to compare the effects. (It seems to be a personal choice with no clearcut a answer).

Thanks!

 

[boston597]

hcg where to pin ????

 

[Hendrix91]

hcg where to pin ????

SubQ in stomach fat

 

[boston597]

Thanx Jimmie lol

 

[lucabratzi]

I wouldn't let testicular atrophy be an indicator on when to use hcg. From my understanding it's better for your system to trick it to continue producing it's on test w hcg then to wait till system shut down and then start hcg.

 

[Northern Nutrition]

^^ 100%.