Training muscles to fail???

[MANWHORE]

I've seen this many times before, but
I have no idea what it means...

"Teaching your muscles to fail: unfortunately if you train your muscles to fail, then neurologically they learn to fail and will continue to fail. This prevents large increases in strength."

If your failing at 6 reps then next time at 7 reps... next 8 reps
and so on, how is this a bad thing?

What exactly does: "If you train to failure, you'll
train your muscles to fail" .. Mean

Wouldn't training to failure, have your muscles
get stronger, so that they don't fail again under that same work load?

Can someone explain this to me?

 

[Demondosage]

The principle behind it is to not tap into your recovery ability to such a significant degree. Now, here is my take on this principle. I think it can have a place if used sparingly or during a maintenance phase in a routine. I train strictly DC/high intensity/ Mentzer style, so usually by the end of a 4-6 wk block of busting ass and going to failure and beyond, I really need a couple wks to regroup. This is where I'd use something like that. But as a staple to my training? Fuck no, I'll leave that shit to the fat powerlifters with all of their magical suits and bands and chains and boards

 

[MANWHORE]

O yea, your training to failure within
6-8 rep range I am guessing?

I fail more close to 15 or more slow reps
so I am guessing I could train more frequently
without over-training?

Mine is fatigue failure, but that still has to
tap into some serious reserves with my
muscles literally feeling like they are filled
with molting lava.

 

[Demondosage]

I train extremely heavy for high reps, but I only do 1 work set per muscle group and do Rest pause training. Usually I do somewhere from 12-15 reps/set, dying somewhere around 8-10 reps, and rest pausing to get me to 12-15. I could not use these poundages for this amount of reps training any other way

 

[Demondosage]

BTW, I hit each muscle group 3x/wk with a different exercise each time around. The insane intensity paired with low volume just gets me results, and I enjoy working a muscle more often with this fashion of training

 

[MANWHORE]

BTW, I hit each muscle group 3x/wk with a different exercise each time around. The insane intensity paired with low volume just gets me results, and I enjoy working a muscle more often with this fashion of training

That's from Dante training I am guessing?

I like training heavy cause it feels solid all around
and feel confidence with the weight, but I never feel like
I am getting the most out of workouts that way...
For size yea I guess, but I am not always thinking of size...

Most time I could care less about size actually

My arm hurts alot now cause past industrial job
I had, and the light weight more rep blood pump
makes it feel better...

Maybe some HGH in near future for me
for this arm... I think it's a tendon ... I think I can
really feel it's a tendon...

You think HGH will help it?
I was going to go with the EQ cause of everything
I read on EQ and collagen Synth in past but not sure now

 

[stomps]

I was told by a powerlifting buddy of mine that failing on a rep and having your spotter help teaches your nervous system and muscles that they don't have to get stronger cause if you start to fail it will get lighter. Instead you should lift heavy enough that it is extremely difficult and make your body push all the way through. This may also be BRO SCIENCE so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[stomps]

Not all powerlifters are fat my friend weighs about 165-170 lbs and a body fat of around 10-12% not shredded but not fat

 

[Mike Oxbig]

"neurologically they learn to fail"? wtf?

The body "teaching itself how to fail" goes entirely against our evolutionary ability to adapt to new enviorments in order to survive. It would take a hell of a lot of evidence from controlled studies for me to forgo the overload theory in favor of this bro science.

 

[stomps]

"neurologically they learn to fail"? wtf?

The body "teaching itself how to fail" goes entirely against our evolutionary ability to adapt to new enviorments in order to survive. It would take a hell of a lot of evidence from controlled studies for me to forgo the overload theory in favor of this bro science.

Hey man i never said it was true and most likely is just BRO SCIENCE

 

[Demondosage]

That's from Dante training I am guessing?

I like training heavy cause it feels solid all around
and feel confidence with the weight, but I never feel like
I am getting the most out of workouts that way...
For size yea I guess, but I am not always thinking of size...

Most time I could care less about size actually

My arm hurts alot now cause past industrial job
I had, and the light weight more rep blood pump
makes it feel better...

Maybe some HGH in near future for me
for this arm... I think it's a tendon ... I think I can
really feel it's a tendon...

You think HGH will help it?
I was going to go with the EQ cause of everything
I read on EQ and collagen Synth in past but not sure now

maybe run a little deca, I have aches and pains myself, bicep tendons get me alot lately, right shoulder issues too. Slow the rep speed down, might help. And if something hurts don t do it, pick a diff exercise. HGH is simply a waste IMO, its too expensive and all the shit out there going for $100-$200/kit is bunk.

 

[MANWHORE]

"neurologically they learn to fail"? wtf?

The body "teaching itself how to fail" goes entirely against our evolutionary ability to adapt to new enviorments in order to survive. .

Exactly what I am thinking, so I don't
know why I keep reading this shit.

"Taking a set to failure, teaches muscles to fail"

Now taking multiple sets to failure to frequently
will have muscles failing sooner than when first
starting that program...
This I know, but that is just from over-training
not a scared muscle not wanting to work, like
the theory above looks.

I'm about to grab these 20lb dumbbells
and show my muscles what failure really is

 

[Pericles]

While I keep reps high (10 or more....trained heavy for 32 years, however) due to the damage my joints have taken over time, I always bust my ass 100%. I use Dorian Yates approach, which is Mentzers w/ one more set.

I am coming off a cycle, so I will need more recovery. I only hit a body-part once a week, but will cut down volume to a min. Will also cut cardio from 6 days a week, to 3. I will take extra days off if needed.

 

[Romulus]

All right, what about the opposite end of the spectrum? Do you go to failure on every set? HIT guys--I know you do--at least for your bona fide work set (or two). But, what about the higher volume bunch? My training knowledge is kind of dated. (I workout on the same principles I did 15-20 years ago--and that was mostly going to failure on every set besides warm ups). Now, I see a lot of sub-failure sets built into some more current routines, with like one final set that truly pushes to failure. What do you guys think?

 

[MANWHORE]

I been a fan of Mentzer's HIT for
a long time now..
I think that was mostly
because I don't like to spend much time working out...
being lazy you can say... and because I felt that
taking a set to failure was the best way to stimulate growth..

I now believe it's more about taking a heavy weight
to Less Than Failure, only for more reps.. More time under tension

It always did make sense to me, that More Is Always Better,
I have just been kind of lazy and always resorted back to HIT training
with less sets...

 

[MANWHORE]

I don't believe it's even necessary to train to
failure, in order to increase mitochondria
in type II muscle fibers..

Besides the heavy weight, I think
it comes down to a mix, of Full Range,
Partials, and Static holds at different points
over the rep range, to get full benefits.

See how my attitude toward training changes
even in one thread? lol ...
I am staying heavy, as long as I can now.
Fuck the light weight. It hasn't been doing much
for me, besides sarcoplasmic, I am guessing

 

[leoclaw79]

To me, training to failure is like training to FAIL. Be wise about it and chose your battles. Trainin to failure might be great during a cycle but it wont help you keep your gains when in a fragile hormonal state after the cycle lOl

 

[MANWHORE]

Training to failure + duration + frequency
is really what it comes down to..

Training to failure with 1-2 sets per exercise 1X/week
is not like training to failure while using ..
what alot of guys use.... 4,5 or more sets per exercise 2-3X/week...

I don't believe anyone can ever over-train using eccentric
failure, while doing 1set per exercise 1X/week, like Mentzer recommends.

Eccentric failure is what he is talking about
and what I am talking about