Training parts of a muscle

[jJjburton]

Is it even possible to train “inner chest”, “Lower Chest”, “lower lats”. Etc?
Or it is just overall muscle development?

From anatomy this is not possible. But then why do people do a lower chest exercises and upper chest, when there is only two chest muscles?

Do these various exercises grow the non dominant muscles, like the tiny muscles under the main ones, or something like that?

 

[eery]

Is it even possible to train “inner chest”, “Lower Chest”, “lower lats”. Etc?
Or it is just overall muscle development?

From anatomy this is not possible. But then why do people do a lower chest exercises and upper chest, when there is only two chest muscles?

Do these various exercises grow the non dominant muscles, like the tiny muscles under the main ones, or something like that?

you can emphasize a certain part of your muscles, yes. It depends where/how you load the muscle under load depeding on the angle.

Ill leave this here and come back later:


View: https://sandcresearch.medium.com/what-is-regional-hypertrophy-and-how-does-it-happen-c1dafe3ce0a9
Greater Hamstrings Muscle Hypertrophy but Similar Damage Protection after Training at Long versus Short Muscle Lengths (PDF) Different Foot Positioning During Calf Training to Induce Portion-Specific Gastrocnemius Muscle Hypertrophy (PDF) The role of exercise selection in regional Muscle Hypertrophy: A randomized controlled trial

 

[may2021]

Is it even possible to train “inner chest”, “Lower Chest”, “lower lats”. Etc?
Or it is just overall muscle development?

From anatomy this is not possible. But then why do people do a lower chest exercises and upper chest, when there is only two chest muscles?

Do these various exercises grow the non dominant muscles, like the tiny muscles under the main ones, or something like that?

Unfortunately, I can't train chest as it grows too fast from powerlifting in my 20's.I've noticed though that since starting up again - my upper and inner chest are growing as a result of current triceps training and I think some shoulder work.

Unfortunately, my chest almost dwarfs the body parts I've actually trained the past 8 months. lol

 

[jJjburton]

@MFAAS
@Mac11wildcat
@Bumpygooch
@Type-IIx
@PeterBond

Anybody else i forgot, would love to hear your insight.

 

[jJjburton]

you can emphasize a certain part of your muscles, yes. It depends where/how you load the muscle under load depeding on the angle.

Ill leave this here and come back later:


View: https://sandcresearch.medium.com/what-is-regional-hypertrophy-and-how-does-it-happen-c1dafe3ce0a9
Greater Hamstrings Muscle Hypertrophy but Similar Damage Protection after Training at Long versus Short Muscle Lengths (PDF) Different Foot Positioning During Calf Training to Induce Portion-Specific Gastrocnemius Muscle Hypertrophy (PDF) The role of exercise selection in regional Muscle Hypertrophy: A randomized controlled trial

Awesome

 

[T&H]

Sounds like @eery already answered. You need to look specifically into the muscles you want to train, and aim to hit them with different angles utilizing different exercises including machines if necessary. Lower chest for example, decline bench.

 

[jJjburton]

Sounds like @eery already answered. You need to look specifically into the muscles you want to train, and aim to hit them with different angles utilizing different exercises including machines if necessary. Lower chest for example, decline bench.

Yes he did. Some great info there.

 

[MFAAS]

Yes he did. Some great info there.

You definitely can but with a caveat:, it so wildly depends on the muscle.

First off, there is a huge difference between ISOLATING a certain muscle or part of a muscle and EMPHASIZING part of a muscle.
- Isolating is cutting out other muscles and only working that one muscle group, (notice I didn't say part of a muscle).
Little semantic tangent: Let me be straight up in saying that "emphasizing" isn't really an industry standard term. It is something I personally like and think is valuable to use to express the difference between isolation and exercises that "focus" more on a specific "head" or "part" of a muscle.
- So, with that, emphasizing is using exercises that apply a greater amount of force to a certain part of the muscle than others, usually in an attempt to strengthen or grow that specific part more than others.

Really it all comes down to anatomy:

This comes down to the insertion and the origin point of a muscle. Remember geometry? Two points can make a line! This line is the line that this particular muscle contracts along. It does not go in different directions.

Let's define origin and insertion because I am sure a lot of people don't know the difference:
- Origin: this is the point where the muscle's tendon attaches to a more stationary bone (i.e., one that doesn't move during muscle contraction). The muscle contracts toward the origin.
- Insertion: this is the point where the muscle's tendon attaches to a movable bone. It is the opposite of end of the origin.

An easy example: you can't work your biceps sideways. That doesn't even make any sense. The bicep contracts one direction, your forearm (the insertion) gets pulled towards your shoulder (the origin). The muscle contracts that way and that is the only way it ever will contract.

I see this most commonly talked about in terms of chest. which you even already mentioned in the original post @jJjburton

First example (and one that is talked about way too much): INNER CHEST! This simply is not really a thing. Now, you can try to emphasize this part of the pec via mind-muscle connection during dumbbell fly or presses, and that might help a little bit...but in the end it really is just going to apply the same amount of tension laterally across the entire pectoralis major muscle, simply because that is the way your muscle alignment is. Due to this, technically you are working the outer pec just as much as the inner pec. The origin goes from the sternum, upper ribs, and medial clavicle (which are the origins for your muddle, lower, and upper pec, respectively) over to the insertion at the crest of greater tubercle of the humerus (basically your upper arm).

So, INNER pec is just a bro myth, you can't isolate or, to be honest, really even emphasize the inner pec. However....you asked about different angle bench presses. This is INDEED very beneficial in two ways:
- First, you TOTALLY can emphasize different parts of the pec muscle. Upper, middle, lower pec all have their own origin points, even though they go to the same insertion point. Because of this, when you do a decline bench, you ARE indeed emphasizing the lower pec more and for incline you're emphasizing the upper pec--you get the point. Now, I am sure you've experienaced this: since they go to the same insertion and you can't truly isolate them, even the decline bench still works the upper pec a little bit.
- Second, when you work these different heads/parts of various muscles at different angles, you are also working different ancillary (secondary) muscles, this is beneficial for ensuring muscular balance, reducing weak points, enhancing symmetry, etc. For an incline bench not only are you working a different section of your pec to a much higher degree, but you are using much more delt, whereas for a decline bench you are relying less on delts, more on triceps, and also even kicking in your serratus anterior to some degree. Those are the ancillary muscles that get involved in pretty much every lift we do.

So, inner pecs, not a thing. However, you can totally emphasize different heads or parts of muscles.
- incline, flat, decline bench
- lateral raises vs reverse fly
- tricep pushdown vs overhead tricep extension vs cable/rope pushdown, etc.
- the list goes on

So, in most cases, there is very good reason to vary your exercises for the same muscle

I am not a fan of chiropractors lol, but this is a really nicely laid oud chart showing the insertion and origin of pretty much every muscle in the body. http://www.dressenchiropractic.com/Muscle%20chart.pdf


I expect I probably wrote down something similar to what's in that youtube video. I just really hate youtube and wanted to chime in with my own info. Hopefully it helps!

 

[jJjburton]

You definitely can but with a caveat:, it so wildly depends on the muscle.

First off, there is a huge difference between ISOLATING a certain muscle or part of a muscle and EMPHASIZING part of a muscle.
- Isolating is cutting out other muscles and only working that one muscle group, (notice I didn't say part of a muscle).
Little semantic tangent: Let me be straight up in saying that "emphasizing" isn't really an industry standard term. It is something I personally like and think is valuable to use to express the difference between isolation and exercises that "focus" more on a specific "head" or "part" of a muscle.
- So, with that, emphasizing is using exercises that apply a greater amount of force to a certain part of the muscle than others, usually in an attempt to strengthen or grow that specific part more than others.

Really it all comes down to anatomy:

This comes down to the insertion and the origin point of a muscle. Remember geometry? Two points can make a line! This line is the line that this particular muscle contracts along. It does not go in different directions.

Let's define origin and insertion because I am sure a lot of people don't know the difference:
- Origin: this is the point where the muscle's tendon attaches to a more stationary bone (i.e., one that doesn't move during muscle contraction). The muscle contracts toward the origin.
- Insertion: this is the point where the muscle's tendon attaches to a movable bone. It is the opposite of end of the origin.

An easy example: you can't work your biceps sideways. That doesn't even make any sense. The bicep contracts one direction, your forearm (the insertion) gets pulled towards your shoulder (the origin). The muscle contracts that way and that is the only way it ever will contract.

I see this most commonly talked about in terms of chest. which you even already mentioned in the original post @jJjburton

First example (and one that is talked about way too much): INNER CHEST! This simply is not really a thing. Now, you can try to emphasize this part of the pec via mind-muscle connection during dumbbell fly or presses, and that might help a little bit...but in the end it really is just going to apply the same amount of tension laterally across the entire pectoralis major muscle, simply because that is the way your muscle alignment is. Due to this, technically you are working the outer pec just as much as the inner pec. The origin goes from the sternum, upper ribs, and medial clavicle (which are the origins for your muddle, lower, and upper pec, respectively) over to the insertion at the crest of greater tubercle of the humerus (basically your upper arm).

So, INNER pec is just a bro myth, you can't isolate or, to be honest, really even emphasize the inner pec. However....you asked about different angle bench presses. This is INDEED very beneficial in two ways:
- First, you TOTALLY can emphasize different parts of the pec muscle. Upper, middle, lower pec all have their own origin points, even though they go to the same insertion point. Because of this, when you do a decline bench, you ARE indeed emphasizing the lower pec more and for incline you're emphasizing the upper pec--you get the point. Now, I am sure you've experienaced this: since they go to the same insertion and you can't truly isolate them, even the decline bench still works the upper pec a little bit.
- Second, when you work these different heads/parts of various muscles at different angles, you are also working different ancillary (secondary) muscles, this is beneficial for ensuring muscular balance, reducing weak points, enhancing symmetry, etc. For an incline bench not only are you working a different section of your pec to a much higher degree, but you are using much more delt, whereas for a decline bench you are relying less on delts, more on triceps, and also even kicking in your serratus anterior to some degree. Those are the ancillary muscles that get involved in pretty much every lift we do.

So, inner pecs, not a thing. However, you can totally emphasize different heads or parts of muscles.
- incline, flat, decline bench
- lateral raises vs reverse fly
- tricep pushdown vs overhead tricep extension vs cable/rope pushdown, etc.
- the list goes on

So, in most cases, there is very good reason to vary your exercises for the same muscle

I am not a fan of chiropractors lol, but this is a really nicely laid oud chart showing the insertion and origin of pretty much every muscle in the body. http://www.dressenchiropractic.com/Muscle%20chart.pdf


I expect I probably wrote down something similar to what's in that youtube video. I just really hate youtube and wanted to chime in with my own info. Hopefully it helps!

Thanks, for writing this up. Yes it does.

 

[Mac11wildcat]

Is it even possible to train “inner chest”, “Lower Chest”, “lower lats”. Etc?
Or it is just overall muscle development?

From anatomy this is not possible. But then why do people do a lower chest exercises and upper chest, when there is only two chest muscles?

Do these various exercises grow the non dominant muscles, like the tiny muscles under the main ones, or something like that?

You cannot train parts of a muscle that aren’t aligned to fiber direction. You can emphasize fiber regions, not parts of individuals fibers. Consider chest. Fibers run from your arm and collar bone to your sternum. That means you CAN train “lower chest” but CANNOT train “inner chest.”

 

[jJjburton]

You cannot train parts of a muscle that aren’t aligned to fiber direction. You can emphasize fiber regions, not parts of individuals fibers. Consider chest. Fibers run from your arm and collar bone to your sternum. That means you CAN train “lower chest” but CANNOT train “inner chest.”

Thanks for reply

 

[JesterBOB]

You cannot train parts of a muscle that aren’t aligned to fiber direction. You can emphasize fiber regions, not parts of individuals fibers. Consider chest. Fibers run from your arm and collar bone to your sternum. That means you CAN train “lower chest” but CANNOT train “inner chest.”

What a great answer, everything is laid out on the shelves. I used to know all this. But I could not explain it from the point of view of theory to myself. Now everything is clear in my head.

 

[JesterBOB]

You definitely can but with a caveat:, it so wildly depends on the muscle.

First off, there is a huge difference between ISOLATING a certain muscle or part of a muscle and EMPHASIZING part of a muscle.
- Isolating is cutting out other muscles and only working that one muscle group, (notice I didn't say part of a muscle).
Little semantic tangent: Let me be straight up in saying that "emphasizing" isn't really an industry standard term. It is something I personally like and think is valuable to use to express the difference between isolation and exercises that "focus" more on a specific "head" or "part" of a muscle.
- So, with that, emphasizing is using exercises that apply a greater amount of force to a certain part of the muscle than others, usually in an attempt to strengthen or grow that specific part more than others.

Really it all comes down to anatomy:

This comes down to the insertion and the origin point of a muscle. Remember geometry? Two points can make a line! This line is the line that this particular muscle contracts along. It does not go in different directions.

Let's define origin and insertion because I am sure a lot of people don't know the difference:
- Origin: this is the point where the muscle's tendon attaches to a more stationary bone (i.e., one that doesn't move during muscle contraction). The muscle contracts toward the origin.
- Insertion: this is the point where the muscle's tendon attaches to a movable bone. It is the opposite of end of the origin.

An easy example: you can't work your biceps sideways. That doesn't even make any sense. The bicep contracts one direction, your forearm (the insertion) gets pulled towards your shoulder (the origin). The muscle contracts that way and that is the only way it ever will contract.

I see this most commonly talked about in terms of chest. which you even already mentioned in the original post @jJjburton

First example (and one that is talked about way too much): INNER CHEST! This simply is not really a thing. Now, you can try to emphasize this part of the pec via mind-muscle connection during dumbbell fly or presses, and that might help a little bit...but in the end it really is just going to apply the same amount of tension laterally across the entire pectoralis major muscle, simply because that is the way your muscle alignment is. Due to this, technically you are working the outer pec just as much as the inner pec. The origin goes from the sternum, upper ribs, and medial clavicle (which are the origins for your muddle, lower, and upper pec, respectively) over to the insertion at the crest of greater tubercle of the humerus (basically your upper arm).

So, INNER pec is just a bro myth, you can't isolate or, to be honest, really even emphasize the inner pec. However....you asked about different angle bench presses. This is INDEED very beneficial in two ways:
- First, you TOTALLY can emphasize different parts of the pec muscle. Upper, middle, lower pec all have their own origin points, even though they go to the same insertion point. Because of this, when you do a decline bench, you ARE indeed emphasizing the lower pec more and for incline you're emphasizing the upper pec--you get the point. Now, I am sure you've experienaced this: since they go to the same insertion and you can't truly isolate them, even the decline bench still works the upper pec a little bit.
- Second, when you work these different heads/parts of various muscles at different angles, you are also working different ancillary (secondary) muscles, this is beneficial for ensuring muscular balance, reducing weak points, enhancing symmetry, etc. For an incline bench not only are you working a different section of your pec to a much higher degree, but you are using much more delt, whereas for a decline bench you are relying less on delts, more on triceps, and also even kicking in your serratus anterior to some degree. Those are the ancillary muscles that get involved in pretty much every lift we do.

So, inner pecs, not a thing. However, you can totally emphasize different heads or parts of muscles.
- incline, flat, decline bench
- lateral raises vs reverse fly
- tricep pushdown vs overhead tricep extension vs cable/rope pushdown, etc.
- the list goes on

So, in most cases, there is very good reason to vary your exercises for the same muscle

I am not a fan of chiropractors lol, but this is a really nicely laid oud chart showing the insertion and origin of pretty much every muscle in the body. http://www.dressenchiropractic.com/Muscle%20chart.pdf


I expect I probably wrote down something similar to what's in that youtube video. I just really hate youtube and wanted to chime in with my own info. Hopefully it helps!

I apologize right away, but on the one hand everything is clear and very detailed, but on the other hand it is completely confused. From the point of view of theory and practice, it makes sense to isolate and shift and emphasize, for example, the bottom or top of the chest, or the inside of the chest. Or do they all work.
Then the question arises how to remove the problem of underdevelopment of one or another part.

 

[MFAAS]

I apologize right away, but on the one hand everything is clear and very detailed, but on the other hand it is completely confused. From the point of view of theory and practice, it makes sense to isolate and shift and emphasize, for example, the bottom or top of the chest, or the inside of the chest. Or do they all work.
Then the question arises how to remove the problem of underdevelopment of one or another part.

Have someone poke your muscle while you do ddecline bench you will see the whole muscle is working, but the lower pec is working the hardest. If you have underdeveloped upper pec, then I would just stick to incline and inclined variations until you feel better about your pec balance. Chances are that the amount of intensity from your inclines isn't goingto cause therest of your leg to grow too.

you cannot isolate or emphasize inner peace. The line of the inner lord runs perpendicular to the direction the pec muscle fibers go. Therefore, it is not possible to isolate or emphasize inner pec. Just like ot isn't really possible go emphasize or isolate the MIDDLE of your bicep.

 

[JesterBOB]

Have someone poke your muscle while you do ddecline bench you will see the whole muscle is working, but the lower pec is working the hardest. If you have underdeveloped upper pec, then I would just stick to incline and inclined variations until you feel better about your pec balance. Chances are that the amount of intensity from your inclines isn't goingto cause therest of your leg to grow too.

you cannot isolate or emphasize inner peace. The line of the inner lord runs perpendicular to the direction the pec muscle fibers go. Therefore, it is not possible to isolate or emphasize inner pec. Just like ot isn't really possible go emphasize or isolate the MIDDLE of your bicep.

I followed your advice and indeed everything is as you described by feeling. Try shifting your training focus as you recommended.

 

[MFAAS]

Have someone poke your muscle while you do ddecline bench you will see the whole muscle is working, but the lower pec is working the hardest. If you have underdeveloped upper pec, then I would just stick to incline and inclined variations until you feel better about your pec balance. Chances are that the amount of intensity from your inclines isn't goingto cause therest of your leg to grow too.

you cannot isolate or emphasize inner peace. The line of the inner lord runs perpendicular to the direction the pec muscle fibers go. Therefore, it is not possible to isolate or emphasize inner pec. Just like ot isn't really possible go emphasize or isolate the MIDDLE of your bicep.

Okay that should have said pec not leg. And again pec not peace and pec not lord. My god what a mess. Hopefully it made sense lmao. Damn autocorrect doesn't know it's anatomy!

 

[Jayne Scott]

You cannot train parts of a muscle that aren’t aligned to fiber direction. You can emphasize fiber regions, not parts of individuals fibers. Consider chest. Fibers run from your arm and collar bone to your sternum. That means you CAN train “lower chest” but CANNOT train “inner chest.”