Tren Gains or NPP Gains

[DarkSupGear]

I’ve seen a recent back and forth on what causes the most actual muscle recruitment amongst the 19 Nors. People claim NPP is better in an off season context but some preach tren. It would make more sense if tren accrued more muscle tissue giving that it is more “potent” in terms of results.
Npp on the other hand gives a little more water weight combined with muscle/strength gains. This would also make sense as when you get heavier you tend to push more weight so being watered down is not really a bad thing.
What are your thoughts? I generally believe that tren is better just less tolerable so if you’re able to get longevity out of it, it would be better.

 

[JackSkel]

How does NPP “make you gain water weight”?

 

[Rido]

How does NPP “make you gain water weight”?

I think technically they will make you gain some sort of water weight(glycogen retention)

I definitely felt like tren enlarged everything... Worse than npp. Caused me to snore

 

[JackSkel]

I think technically they will make you gain some sort of water weight(glycogen retention)

I definitely felt like tren enlarged everything... Worse than npp. Caused me to snore

Glycogen retention is different than water weight though.

But yes. Steroids result in glycogen retention in the muscles. That’s the nutrient partitioning effects. It’s only partly why you get stronger though. Water retention doesn’t add anything to strength though.

 

[Toaster]

Glycogen retention is different than water weight though.

But yes. Steroids result in glycogen retention in the muscles. That’s the nutrient partitioning effects. It’s only partly why you get stronger though. Water retention doesn’t add anything to strength though.

Each gram of glycogen is bound to 3ish grams of water. Glycogen storage is one of the main drivers behind water weight fluctuations.

 

[JackSkel]

Each gram of glycogen is bound to 3ish grams of water. Glycogen storage is one of the main drivers behind water weight fluctuations.

But water has nothing to do with strength.

And water retention isn’t more or less based on NPP or Tren.

 

[Deleted member 134759]

I’ve seen a recent back and forth on what causes the most actual muscle recruitment amongst the 19 Nors. People claim NPP is better in an off season context but some preach tren. It would make more sense if tren accrued more muscle tissue giving that it is more “potent” in terms of results.
Npp on the other hand gives a little more water weight combined with muscle/strength gains. This would also make sense as when you get heavier you tend to push more weight so being watered down is not really a bad thing.
What are your thoughts? I generally believe that tren is better just less tolerable so if you’re able to get longevity out of it, it would be better.

Tren is stronger than NPP. Idk what you are asking exactly?

Water weight doesn’t equate to strength


The ability to tolerate tren is largely individual. I know guys that can run 560 a week for 16 weeks and be fine, Others run 200 and lose their shit by week 3.

Depends a lot on your personality and your life circumstances at the time. A lot of stress + tren, not good.

 

[Rido]

Each gram of glycogen is bound to 3ish grams of water. Glycogen storage is one of the main drivers behind water weight fluctuations.

Insert like

Tren is stronger than NPP. Idk what you are asking exactly?

Water weight doesn’t equate to strength


The ability to tolerate tren is largely individual. I know guys that can run 560 a week for 16 weeks and be fine, Others run 200 and lose their shit by week 3.

Depends a lot on your personality and your life circumstances at the time. A lot of stress + tren, not good.

NPP does do better with my relationship with my wife. makes me more lovey dubby.

So what can I run longer? NPP cause of my wife. lol

Tren wasnt too bad on sub 200

 

[Deleted member 134759]

Insert like


NPP does do better with my relationship with my wife. makes me more lovey dubby.

So what can I run longer? NPP cause of my wife. lol

Tren wasnt too bad on sub 200

I’ve read a lot about people getting mental sides from NPP (even if it’s just making them more affectionate), I never experienced that. I’ve run it up to 875 a week and only felt a mild well-being effect similar to dbol.

 

[ConfusedAF]

I think each compound might have different effects on different person. Personally, I gained much more muscle mass while getting a bit leaner with 6 weeks of 150-200 Tren A/wk. I don't respond well to NPP, even using up to 500 mg/wk for 12 weeks. Not even gaining much muscle, but getting fatter.

It's just my experience with the two compounds though, you should try it yourself. My suggestion is to start with NPP in case you're worried of Tren harsh sides, and stay away from Tren if you're satisfied with the result of NPP.

 

[Toaster]

But water has nothing to do with strength.

And water retention isn’t more or less based on NPP or Tren.

I'm not trying to argue with you, but you keep stating things matter of factly that aren't so black and white.

Let's do a thought experiment on "water has nothing to do with strength"

If I have no glycogen will I have the same strength as when my glycogen is full? Probably not, right?

If 1g of glycogen is bound to 3ish grams of water doesn't that mean water is directly tied to strength? There are other arguments you can make for water having an effect on strength as well.

Maybe you're meaning excess water retention by some other mechanism?

 

[JackSkel]

I'm not trying to argue with you, but you keep stating things matter of factly that aren't so black and white.

Let's do a thought experiment on "water has nothing to do with strength"

If I have no glycogen will I have the same strength as when my glycogen is full? Probably not, right?

If 1g of glycogen is bound to 3ish grams of water doesn't that mean water is directly tied to strength? There are other arguments you can make for water having an effect on strength as well.

Maybe you're meaning excess water retention by some other mechanism?

You’re dicing up my words man.

I originally asked “how does NPP result in water weight”.

But now that you mentioned it, educate me on how water has an effect on strength. Aside the obvious of being hydrated vs dehydrated.

 

[Toaster]

Hey you listed another way with another way to disprove "water has nothing to do with strength"

Good work.

I'm not trying to dice your words up. All I'm saying is that you have to use more context when making a statement so it's not so broad and technically wrong.

As I said I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm not some super knowledgeable guru either. Just someone trying to learn as I go.

 

[JackSkel]

Hey you listed another way with another way to disprove "water has nothing to do with strength"

Good work.

I'm not trying to dice your words up. All I'm saying is that you have to use more context when making a statement so it's not so broad and technically wrong.

As I said I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm not some super knowledgeable guru either. Just someone trying to learn as I go.

Gotcha. Thank you. Can we move on? This is a meat head steroid forum dude. Im not looking at it as a damn job.

 

[DarkSupGear]

Tren is stronger than NPP. Idk what you are asking exactly?

Water weight doesn’t equate to strength


The ability to tolerate tren is largely individual. I know guys that can run 560 a week for 16 weeks and be fine, Others run 200 and lose their shit by week 3.

Depends a lot on your personality and your life circumstances at the time. A lot of stress + tren, not good.

I typed that wrong. Yes water weight is not strength but it helps you put on mass and i was told a saying a long time ago “size=strength but strength doesn’t always equal size” could be wrong honestly.

 

[Deskoze38192]

Although both 19-Nors they are very different compounds
NPP I gain a lot of size but go flat when stop taking it. Strength gain with NPP is negligible. I like Nandrolone for certain purposes and am always running it at varying doses blast or cruise. (100mg Deca on cruise)
Tren I gain size and strength. Bulking on Tren has been a challenge but I think I’ve got it now with the help of hgh and weed lol
The strength I gain from Tren sticks and the size as long as I can keep calorie intake up. First time running Tren I struggled so bad to eat. No appetite.
IMHO they are two different compounds and each serve their own purposes. I wouldn’t compare the two to decide which one is better.

 

[effswithtren]

Nandrolone in a bulk, trenbolone in a cut.

 

[Para_33]

Both of these I feel have unique benefits that may contribute to hypertrophy.

I feel as through nandrolone possible has more mineral corticosteroids activity and allows for more glycogen retention in the muscle because of this, which I believe is beneficial for growth long term.

Trenbolone has a unique effect of increasing igf1 activity, so in certain situations, like when using higher amounts of growth hormone or igf1 itself, tren can maximize the effect of the increased igf1 and maybe results in hyperplasia and hypertrophy.

I don’t see a reason why they can’t be used together- for me Atleast. I have used them together where nandrolone is the primary driver and lower doses of tren are used periodically for the strategy of optimizing of supraphyiological igf1 levels.


I haven’t used either one or the other in the same context, like an off-season growth phase to see which would be more effective with all else equal.

 

[Norse13]

From my personal experience, on  longer cycles i gain much more from nand. After about 10 weeks on tren e, I start to feel tired from the lack of sleep. After 12 weeks I'm usually fed up. Tren messes with my sleep, recovery, appetite, eating. It puts me in a state not conducive to long-term growth.

Deca I can run 16-20 weeks no problem. My lifestyle is healthier, better sleep, better appetite, better recovery.

I don't care which is stronger per mg, that's irrelevant to me. What matters to me is effective dose, how high dose can I go without crippling side effects, and what total stack can I tolerate.

When I use them together, I usually do about twice as much nand as tren.

 

[ruxin32424]

But water has nothing to do with strength.

And water retention isn’t more or less based on NPP or Tren.

"Water has nothing to do with strength."

Is there a hall of fame we can hang this in somewhere?

educate me on how water has an effect on strength. Aside the obvious of being hydrated vs dehydrated.

You literally just educated yourself with the obvious.

Try doing a 3 rep max on a water cut, then do it again in a hyper hydration state and tell me which one was stronger.

Also, this isn't a "meat head forum" it's a harm reduction forum full of professionals, scientists, and technicians.