TrNE troubles

[Dr JIM]

Curious why you suggest either of these over say MCT, or is it due to suspecting EO to be not up to standards?

Bc these are the primary solvents used in AAS by Pharmaceutical companies and their fifty plus year track record speaks for itself, IMO

To that end it’s not surprising the data sheets at Pub Chem list these oils as having higher solubility coefficients than EO

And while Tren is not FDA approved.its chemical structure is certainly in line
with another 19Nor AAS (Nandrolone)
to expect similar compatibility.

I’m not saying MCT can not or should not be used, but why venture into the unknown when a reasonably well established standard already exists.

I’ve watched in dismay as people on MESO and elsewhere experiment w a little of this, a lot of that, and a touch of
whatever else they have heard may work, and query why they develop PIP,
a supersaturated mixture, crystallization
or a resin base consisting of who know what.

Bottom line KIS and follow an established standard FIRST and only when that fails is a deviation from the
norm justifiable, at least from an evidence based perspective

JIM

 

[Dr JIM]

@Iron Vett

Tren Base is a bitch and probably not worth the effort. When you hear your sludgy cloudy mixture up does it become clear? Tren Base has a cloudy look like red mud when it crashes. Lots of solvent is necessary when working with it and contrary to the bullshit being spread across the internet EO is not a strong solvent and I would never use it alone. I’ve been told by some that have made it at 50mg/ml that 20-35% guaiacol was used in addition to 20-30%BB, no thanks.

TREN BASE?

It’s my understanding @Iron Vett is having difficulty solubilizing “TrNE” as in Trenboloe Enanthate ???

The distinction is critical bc an esterified AAS exhibits quite different solubility characteristics than its parent base (non-esterified) compound.

Fact is bc the degree of difficulty and learning curve is considerable very FEW certified compounding Pharmacies will even try to solubilize Testosterone Base. I know of only one in the DFW area.


JIM

 

[Dr JIM]

@Iron Vett

EO is not a strong solvent and I would never use it alone.

Yep in part bc it’s a monounsaturated fatty acid that’s to “nonpolar” to be used as a primary AAS solvent including pharmaceutical progesterone.

EO is used as a 20% solution in most PG
formulations.

Jim

 

[Iron Vett]

TREN BASE?

It’s my understanding @Iron Vett is having difficulty solubilizing “TrNE” as in Trenboloe Enanthate ???

The distinction is critical bc an esterified AAS exhibits quite different solubility characteristics than its parent base (non-esterified) compound.

Fact is bc the degree of difficulty and learning curve is considerable very FEW certified compounding Pharmacies will even try to solubilize Testosterone Base. I know of only one in the DFW area.


JIM

@Dr JIM it is tren base. TrNE has been an acronym used around here for Tren-No Ester. @XmadXscientist is correct about it being unesterified tren that I am trying to make. I am going to try a batch with 40%BB and 6%GU next with no EO and see how that holds. If it still gives probs holding I’ll just up the GU a little at a time until it holds and then see if it’s tolerable to pin. If not, I’ll just scrap the whole mess and forget this project lol

@Iron Vett

Tren Base is a bitch and probably not worth the effort. When you hear your sludgy cloudy mixture up does it become clear? Tren Base has a cloudy look like red mud when it crashes. Lots of solvent is necessary when working with it and contrary to the bullshit being spread across the internet EO is not a strong solvent and I would never use it alone. I’ve been told by some that have made it at 50mg/ml that 20-35% guaiacol was used in addition to 20-30%BB, no thanks.

It is very cloudy and red mud like. Opaque. As the mixtures I’ve tried, with EO as part of the solvent mix, is heated up, it does not clear up. It remains cloudy and as the temp goes past 225F a sludge begins to form. I usually never bring compounds over 125-150F on the mixer but this is an experiment and I’m just trying different things once it has begun to go downhill. My first attempt had only BB as a solvent with the raws and went into a clear solution around 175F. Then I added EO and it sludged up. I am next going to try a ratio of 40%bb and melt the raws and then add 6%GU as it begins to cool down and see if it will hold.

 

[Bigguy]

I would try this

2.5ml of gua for each g of powder
1% bb
EO as carrier, no oil

Gua and powder in a beaker, heat until it smokes, swirl for 5 mins while hot, add hot eo, swirl more, add ba when cooled down a bit

 

[Bigguy]

A water based suspension would be easier tbf. You can make it into a cloudy oil based suspension by dumping it into hot gso, no eo, so you can make it without eo or gua. That's ok for 50mg but 100mg you use eo

 

[XmadXscientist]

I would try this

2.5ml of gua for each g of powder
1% bb
EO as carrier, no oil

Gua and powder in a beaker, heat until it smokes, swirl for 5 mins while hot, add hot eo, swirl more, add ba when cooled down a bit

NO! Smoking is bad and anything that ever gets to said point should be thrown in the garbage immediately. If you don’t understand why you shouldn’t be making anything for anyone.

 

[XmadXscientist]

remains cloudy and as the temp goes past 225F a sludge begins to form.

That’s the bitch about Tren Base, you need a lot of heat to drive the reaction yet high heat destroys it. This along with levels and use of solvents that I think are not safe at all (guaiacol) are reasons I leave it alone.

 

[XmadXscientist]

Bc these are the primary solvents used in AAS by Pharmaceutical companies and their fifty plus year track record speaks for itself, IMO

Was thinking you were recommending this due to them being known established methods.

I’ve watched in dismay as people on MESO and elsewhere experiment w a little of this, a lot of that, and a touch of
whatever else they have heard may work, and query why they develop PIP,
a supersaturated mixture, crystallization
or a resin base consisting of who know what.

Bottom line KIS and follow an established standard FIRST and only when that fails is a deviation from the
norm justifiable, at least from an evidence based perspective

Also a fan of evidence based practice using human models (but what about rodents? Lol)

 

[Bigguy]

That’s the bitch about Tren Base, you need a lot of heat to drive the reaction yet high heat destroys it. This along with levels and use of solvents that I think are not safe at all (guaiacol) are reasons I leave it alone.

It's destruction point is over 400°f, so high heat is no problem

 

[XmadXscientist]

It's destruction point is over 400°f, so high heat is no problem

My concern wasn’t destruction of the hormone in question....

 

[Dr JIM]

@Dr JIM it is tren base. TrNE has been an acronym used around here for Tren-No Ester. @XmadXscientist is correct about it being unesterified tren that I am trying to make. I am going to try a batch with 40%BB and 6%GU next with no EO and see how that holds. If it still gives probs holding I’ll just up the GU a little at a time until it holds and then see if it’s tolerable to pin. If not, I’ll just scrap the whole mess and forget this project lol



It is very cloudy and red mud like. Opaque. As the mixtures I’ve tried, with EO as part of the solvent mix, is heated up, it does not clear up. It remains cloudy and as the temp goes past 225F a sludge begins to form. I usually never bring compounds over 125-150F on the mixer but this is an experiment and I’m just trying different things once it has begun to go downhill. My first attempt had only BB as a solvent with the raws and went into a clear solution around 175F. Then I added EO and it sludged up. I am next going to try a ratio of 40%bb and melt the raws and then add 6%GU as it begins to cool down and see if it will hold.

My error I should have asked.

I’ll look at some Testosterone suspension protocols BUT I’m inclined to agree w @XmadXscientist
it’s not worth the trouble mate.

Jim

 

[Dr JIM]

Was thinking you were recommending this due to them being known established methods.

Also a fan of evidence based practice using human models (but what about rodents? Lol)

Would you prefer monkeys, dogs or cats.
as a rodent substitute?

The A/A ratio, developed in the 1960s, used a rodent model and contemporary technology, such as protein specific mRNA techniques, has confirmed it’s applicability to humans

And how many drugs have been developed using rodents as the experimental model THOUSANDS.

Dont throw out the baby w the bath water, but learn how to apply rodent studies to humans.

JIM

 

[XmadXscientist]

Would you prefer monkeys, dogs or cats.
as a rodent substitute?

The A/A ratio, developed in the 1960s, used a rodent model and contemporary technology, such as protein specific mRNA techniques, has confirmed it’s applicability to humans

And how many drugs have been developed using rodents as the experimental model THOUSANDS.

Dont throw out the baby w the bath water, but learn how to apply rodent studies to humans.

JIM

I was making a joke there, not saying they’re trash. You and I can probably decifer when to apply non-human studies to humans based on risk vs reward. It was more in reference to the people who say it worked in rats imagine what it can do for me?!!! Most don’t appreciate the fact that 99% of non-human studies never make to human studies.

By the way what do you have on EO negative effects? I was on a mission to prove to myself it was bad and had a hard time finding information on it.

 

[Dr JIM]

That’s the bitch about Tren Base, you need a lot of heat to drive the reaction yet high heat destroys it. This along with levels and use of solvents that I think are not safe at all (guaiacol) are reasons I leave it alone.

I abolutely agree, bc while a fella may
get TrNE to solubilize, the final product
may be tissue toxic and not suitable for
parenteral use.

Well I’d pin/experiment on a Rodent FIRST

 

[Iron Vett]

I believe I’m just going to have to throw in the towel on the Tren Base. I tried another test batch with just MCT, BB and GU. No EO. The raws dissolve great in 40%BB and 10%GU. But as soon as I added the heated mct oil it clouded up. So I decided the experiment was on. I began adding BB and GU a little at a time and then heating it up to 200F to see if it would clear up. I ended up with 45%BB and 25%GU and it was still cloudy after coooing down. I think I’m done with this stuff.