MESO-Rx
Anabolic Steroids
Trouble staying "Off"......
- Thread starter big rob
- Start date
big rob
New Member
Damn Niko, you and them Asian women...... What went wrong with the blonde this time??? Did she go get her break up tattoo yet????
Captain Planet
New Member
PCT is just as important as they cycle itself IMO, you won't keep your gains if you just stay on all the time.......
Hogg
New Member
What did you just say?
Captain Planet said:
I think he said if you never come off, you'll lose your gains.
Captain Planet
New Member
Let me clairify my previous statement. At some point the law of decreasing returns comes into play and the drugs become less and less effective. At some point you WILL have to come off, whether it be for financial or you just can't seem to gain another ounce, and if you have been on for a long time you'll loose your gains, or at least a lot more of them than if you had only stayed on for a reasonable amount of time. That is why PCT is just as important as the cycle itself, it helps you keep your gains when you come off. I kind of randomly put that post in, sorry for the confusion, its slightly off the topic I know.
Hogg
New Member
Thanks for clarifying.
I do not necessarily agree that short cycles and post cycle therapy will yield greater results than staying on for extended periods of time. I have also watched some long term users take 6 months off and maintain their bodyweight within 10 pounds of peak. Granted, this is an exception rather than the norm and out of a sampling of 100 bodybuilders who use steroids, I would expect to find 5-8 men who demonstrate these characteristics.
I feel inclined to point out that there is a point where you simply cannot gain additional mass without the drugs, and consequently, there is a point where you will fail to gain additional mass no matter the quantity of drugs used as growth is weighted by another very important variable - time. Let me clarify that. You can reach a point where you can use 3 grams of gear per week or as little as 500mg but the rate of growth will be no greater over time. Sounds odd, I know, but i have experienced it first hand and have had this discussion with numerous others, large men all of them, one a national-level heavyweight, another a former competitive powerlifter who turned to bodybuilding. I also know of people who are fairly big, say 220-250# and come off without any sort of post cycle therapy. Somehow, they manage to maintain most of their bodyweight albeit, their body composition does change a bit as would be expected. In summary, I believe that the training stimulus and proper nutrition need to be applied consistently over an extended duration and act as a greater factor in sustaining growth than supraphysiological amounts of drugs.
Further, without consistent training, I believe that one can never achieve his ultimate state of development. Altogether too often, we see lifters who get big in Jan/Feb, start slacking off in March, get back on track and reacquire the target in May, find some new growth in June/July, slack off in August, etc. such that at the end of the year, they are only slightly better off or perhaps in worse shape than when they began the year. At times, this is because of injury, in other cases, these slack periods correspond to partying and time off of the drugs.
I do not necessarily agree that short cycles and post cycle therapy will yield greater results than staying on for extended periods of time. I have also watched some long term users take 6 months off and maintain their bodyweight within 10 pounds of peak. Granted, this is an exception rather than the norm and out of a sampling of 100 bodybuilders who use steroids, I would expect to find 5-8 men who demonstrate these characteristics.
I feel inclined to point out that there is a point where you simply cannot gain additional mass without the drugs, and consequently, there is a point where you will fail to gain additional mass no matter the quantity of drugs used as growth is weighted by another very important variable - time. Let me clarify that. You can reach a point where you can use 3 grams of gear per week or as little as 500mg but the rate of growth will be no greater over time. Sounds odd, I know, but i have experienced it first hand and have had this discussion with numerous others, large men all of them, one a national-level heavyweight, another a former competitive powerlifter who turned to bodybuilding. I also know of people who are fairly big, say 220-250# and come off without any sort of post cycle therapy. Somehow, they manage to maintain most of their bodyweight albeit, their body composition does change a bit as would be expected. In summary, I believe that the training stimulus and proper nutrition need to be applied consistently over an extended duration and act as a greater factor in sustaining growth than supraphysiological amounts of drugs.
Further, without consistent training, I believe that one can never achieve his ultimate state of development. Altogether too often, we see lifters who get big in Jan/Feb, start slacking off in March, get back on track and reacquire the target in May, find some new growth in June/July, slack off in August, etc. such that at the end of the year, they are only slightly better off or perhaps in worse shape than when they began the year. At times, this is because of injury, in other cases, these slack periods correspond to partying and time off of the drugs.
Captain Planet said:
Excellent points, Hogg.
I also think that what a persons training looks like when they come off cycle will play a large role in how much gains they keep. It seems like all too often someone will come off cycle and then switch from heavy 5 rep sets to pussy 10-12 rep sets. The intensity (%RM) just falls off the scale. Its no wonder they lose a bunch of mass. Myself and others that I know of highly recommend staying heavy during the first few weeks/month after a cycle ends in order to maintain that intensity. Instead of dropping weight/intensity, I would rather see people still lifting heavy. Sure, they may end up losing a rep or three, but overall I think it will work out much better than dropping from working at 85-95% 1RM to 70-75%.
I also agree wholeheartedly about your statements regarding consistency. I am as guilty of this as anyone. Hell, last year I ended up entirely missing about 6-7 months in the gym for various reasons. You cant grow an admirable physique if you miss a ton of time in the gym, arent working hard, and dont fight through those times when your motivation may be lacking. We all have ups and downs, we all have bad days at home/work, and sometimes its good to take one of those days off. But too many of those days will end up forcing your results down the drain. I started a thread in the training section a month or two ago about what people felt was the single most important factor in regards to success in the gym. Though people differed between training and nutrition, I think we all were really arguing different points of consistency. Without it, no miracle lifting program, no spot-on nutrition, and no amount of AAS will make up for for lack of consistency over time.
I also think that what a persons training looks like when they come off cycle will play a large role in how much gains they keep. It seems like all too often someone will come off cycle and then switch from heavy 5 rep sets to pussy 10-12 rep sets. The intensity (%RM) just falls off the scale. Its no wonder they lose a bunch of mass. Myself and others that I know of highly recommend staying heavy during the first few weeks/month after a cycle ends in order to maintain that intensity. Instead of dropping weight/intensity, I would rather see people still lifting heavy. Sure, they may end up losing a rep or three, but overall I think it will work out much better than dropping from working at 85-95% 1RM to 70-75%.
I also agree wholeheartedly about your statements regarding consistency. I am as guilty of this as anyone. Hell, last year I ended up entirely missing about 6-7 months in the gym for various reasons. You cant grow an admirable physique if you miss a ton of time in the gym, arent working hard, and dont fight through those times when your motivation may be lacking. We all have ups and downs, we all have bad days at home/work, and sometimes its good to take one of those days off. But too many of those days will end up forcing your results down the drain. I started a thread in the training section a month or two ago about what people felt was the single most important factor in regards to success in the gym. Though people differed between training and nutrition, I think we all were really arguing different points of consistency. Without it, no miracle lifting program, no spot-on nutrition, and no amount of AAS will make up for for lack of consistency over time.
Hogg
New Member
I believe the reason that people drop their training poundages is to deny the psychological blow when strength falls off. But then again, to at least go to the gym and do something is better than doing nothing.
With respect to the post cycle period, I can think of another scenario which may be worth considering. Coming off is also a good time to move into a deloading period and then begin a new training cycle at the bottom of the wave. We know that the rate of recuperation is reduced when off cycle - otherwise, steroids would have little benefit. We also tend to train a bit harder when on the bean than when off and a rest is usually warranted at some point, actually, it is often needed. But then again, what is the point of switching to 10-12 rep sets? Is the idea "mass gain"? I would tend to think that if a person is going to drop his training loads, he should switch to higher repetition training and push some fluids through his connective tissues, get some LA buildup, remodel the tendons, and for that matter, let cortisol run rough shod over those steroid-built scar tissue-laden contractile fibers and the mt junction.
Ultimately, I have no idea which method works best.....I can probably think of a half dozen scenarios and cant even rate them on a 1 to 10 scale
With respect to the post cycle period, I can think of another scenario which may be worth considering. Coming off is also a good time to move into a deloading period and then begin a new training cycle at the bottom of the wave. We know that the rate of recuperation is reduced when off cycle - otherwise, steroids would have little benefit. We also tend to train a bit harder when on the bean than when off and a rest is usually warranted at some point, actually, it is often needed. But then again, what is the point of switching to 10-12 rep sets? Is the idea "mass gain"? I would tend to think that if a person is going to drop his training loads, he should switch to higher repetition training and push some fluids through his connective tissues, get some LA buildup, remodel the tendons, and for that matter, let cortisol run rough shod over those steroid-built scar tissue-laden contractile fibers and the mt junction.
Ultimately, I have no idea which method works best.....I can probably think of a half dozen scenarios and cant even rate them on a 1 to 10 scale
Bob Smith said:
I give it a 6.
As to what "it" is, I really have no freakin clue!
As to what "it" is, I really have no freakin clue!
Hogg
New Member
That is where I find myself these days......
Funny thing, I now find myself training lighter when on the bean and using higher volume - a lot of mechanical work, yet for my recent 3 months off, I pushed the intensity up and the volume down....actually, I feel invincible when off and cautious when on. How's that for a totally bass-akwards methodology ?
Over the years, I have studied numerous books, talked to numerous people, and attempted numerous scenarios. As I sit here right now, I realize that there is no universal answer and that nothing will work forever.
Funny thing, I now find myself training lighter when on the bean and using higher volume - a lot of mechanical work, yet for my recent 3 months off, I pushed the intensity up and the volume down....actually, I feel invincible when off and cautious when on. How's that for a totally bass-akwards methodology ?
Over the years, I have studied numerous books, talked to numerous people, and attempted numerous scenarios. As I sit here right now, I realize that there is no universal answer and that nothing will work forever.
Bob Smith said:I give it a 6.
As to what "it" is, I really have no freakin clue!
I can certainly understand your role-reversal in regards to not pushing nearly as heavy while on. After a pec tear and some other injuries, I would definitely lean more towards the cautious side as well.
If I could ever get an email through to you, you would see what my plan is for the next couple months. Its HST but with 3 sets instead of 1-2. Since Ill be on, I will be cautious when it comes to pushing close to RMs. Freddy has helped me out a lot in terms of the workouts and movements and such, so I feel comfortable in what the plan is.
If I could ever get an email through to you, you would see what my plan is for the next couple months. Its HST but with 3 sets instead of 1-2. Since Ill be on, I will be cautious when it comes to pushing close to RMs. Freddy has helped me out a lot in terms of the workouts and movements and such, so I feel comfortable in what the plan is.
Hogg
New Member
Bob Smith said:
Why HST? Did it produce good results for you at some point in the past?
Yeah, Ive made good gains on HST training naturally, so I figured I would give it a shot while not-so-natural.Hogg said:
If its on the internet, then it must be true!easywin said:
ROB, she never totally forgave me. i got sick of her bitching about how bad i treated her 5 months ago. she didn't even see that i was a knight this round, and asking her to move in didn't even crack her bitch mode. she called today, though. i'm trying not to fuck her because we always have to go out first. that means at least $140. living downtown isn't so great sometimes. 1200mg of cyp is fucking killing me. it's so hard to not think about pussy. i'm going nuts trying to hide my boners at work and at the gym. i got a haircut today, and i was scared to stand up after. she was hot and i almost whipped it out right there and smacked her in the face with it. aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh
big rob
New Member
Damn stud, you just made me up my Cyp dosage a few mg's...... I have no hair so the stylist chick is ass out for anything but the hard-on in the face.......
