TRT and general HRT optimization

[thepipisreal]

Hi all,

Long time lurker, figured I'd make it official.

Jumped on TRT 5 years ago in my late 30's. Had been feeling absolutely horrible for almost a decade by that point. Tried everything I could naturally; perfect diet, no drinking/smoking, lifting + cardio 5x/week, etc...still felt like shit. Got my levels tested and Free T was all the way at the bottom of the range.

Started TRT through a local doctor; 160mg/week Test Cyp. I've been essentially trying to fine tune my protocol since then. After experimenting with pretty much every ester and protocol possible, I've come to the conclusion that I need to minimize HPTA suppression (which means using shorter esters, e.g. Test Prop or compounded Test cream), supplement neurosteroids (Pregnenolone/DHEA) to some degree, and definitely some kind of E2 control.

I tried Adex and Asin and both fuck me up in different ways (Adex is definitely worse) and I've not been able to fine tune them in a reliable way. The best solution I've found so far has been cranking up DHT levels, either through use of scrotal application of compounded Test cream, or using straight DHT gel.
I'm also right now starting to experiment with oral Proviron. I've tried adding low dose Mast and Primo (~70mg/week alongside TRT Test), but while it helped they both completely trashed my lipids over time and don't seem sustainable long term for me at least.

I feel like I'm pretty close to finally getting dialed in, so we'll see. I might start a log thread where I document my experiments and conclusions, maybe it can help others struggling to get dialed in.

 

[Nidus]

Hi all,

Long time lurker, figured I'd make it official.

Jumped on TRT 5 years ago in my late 30's. Had been feeling absolutely horrible for almost a decade by that point. Tried everything I could naturally; perfect diet, no drinking/smoking, lifting + cardio 5x/week, etc...still felt like shit. Got my levels tested and Free T was all the way at the bottom of the range.

Started TRT through a local doctor; 160mg/week Test Cyp. I've been essentially trying to fine tune my protocol since then. After experimenting with pretty much every ester and protocol possible, I've come to the conclusion that I need to minimize HPTA suppression (which means using shorter esters, e.g. Test Prop or compounded Test cream), supplement neurosteroids (Pregnenolone/DHEA) to some degree, and definitely some kind of E2 control.

I tried Adex and Asin and both fuck me up in different ways (Adex is definitely worse) and I've not been able to fine tune them in a reliable way. The best solution I've found so far has been cranking up DHT levels, either through use of scrotal application of compounded Test cream, or using straight DHT gel.
I'm also right now starting to experiment with oral Proviron. I've tried adding low dose Mast and Primo (~70mg/week alongside TRT Test), but while it helped they both completely trashed my lipids over time and don't seem sustainable long term for me at least.

I feel like I'm pretty close to finally getting dialed in, so we'll see. I might start a log thread where I document my experiments and conclusions, maybe it can help others struggling to get dialed in.

I am curious what makes you think that different Esther's suppress your HPTA less?

 

[thepipisreal]

I am curious what makes you think that different Esther's suppress your HPTA less?

There's a few research papers on this, at least one on different degrees of LH/FSH suppression, and one on different timelines for fertility recovery. A deepsearch AI research nowadays will find those pretty quickly I'm sure.

Anecdotally (less valuable than actual research, obviously), I've had much less suppression of DHEA production on Test P than on Test C for the same dosages. Exogenous Test does suppress neurosteroid production for many men, which confuses some who will say that it shouldn't happen since DHEA is an adrenal hormone. But there are mechanisms by which it can happen. Exogenous Test affects ACTH secretion, which in turn can lower production of adrenal hormones.

Even more anecdotally, my balls come back to some significant degree size wise on Test P compared to longer esters. Same protocol (daily injections), same dosages.

 

[Country Club Hero]

There’s some real weirdos on there but also some wise men that have probably dealt with something very similar to your case over at Excelmale.com.

They are strictly a HRT forum with various protocols being implemented there amongst users. Tons of short ester, daily injectors using all types of supplemented downstream hormones. You have a better chance at dialing in details for your own case over there I’m pretty sure.

Be prepared to deal with some non-lifting nerds assisting you over there though lol. Good luck as I know it can be frustrating. I also like to fine tune my protocol constantly as I feel our particular situations constantly change in our bodies and hence our needs.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

There’s some real weirdos on there but also some wise men that have probably dealt with something very similar to your case over at Excelmale.com.

They are strictly a HRT forum with various protocols being implemented there amongst users. Tons of short ester, daily injectors using all types of supplemented downstream hormones. You have a better chance at dialing in details for your own case over there I’m pretty sure.

Be prepared to deal with some non-lifting nerds assisting you over there though lol. Good luck as I know it can be frustrating. I also like to fine tune my protocol constantly as I feel our particular situations constantly change in our bodies and hence our needs.

I feel attacked. Good advice though. I know this particular gentleman and he's already present on ExcelMale. He probably hopes for a different perspective here, free of judgment regarding UGL compounds.

 

[thepipisreal]

There’s some real weirdos on there but also some wise men that have probably dealt with something very similar to your case over at Excelmale.com.

They are strictly a HRT forum with various protocols being implemented there amongst users. Tons of short ester, daily injectors using all types of supplemented downstream hormones. You have a better chance at dialing in details for your own case over there I’m pretty sure.

Be prepared to deal with some non-lifting nerds assisting you over there though lol. Good luck as I know it can be frustrating. I also like to fine tune my protocol constantly as I feel our particular situations constantly change in our bodies and hence our needs.

Thanks for the recommendation. I've been on EM forums for a few years now. Definitely learned a lot over there, but as @FunkOdyssey wrote better than I could, hoping for a different mindset and approach here.

I feel attacked. Good advice though. I know this particular gentleman and he's already present on ExcelMale. He probably hopes for a different perspective here, free of judgment regarding UGL compounds.

Good to see you my friend, I was wondering whether you'd see my intro post haha.

 

[Country Club Hero]

Thanks for the recommendation. I've been on EM forums for a few years now. Definitely learned a lot over there, but as @FunkOdyssey wrote better than I could, hoping for a different mindset and approach here.



Good to see you my friend, I was wondering whether you'd see my intro post haha.

Haha but yeah, totally makes sense. Best to get as much info from as many places you can and honestly between here and there, that’s probably my top 2 recommendations for your situation. Knowledgeable people on both.

The good part about finding help from someone here is that they are more likely to be experienced with all forms of PEDs including extensive knowledge on new peptides and other potential helpful ways to optimize HRT. There’s so much change happening in the world of human enhancement it’s hard to keep up so it’s good to have a group of knowledgeable people to discuss this stuff with.

Oh and FunkOddyssey, I actually enjoyed your posts in my brief time there. I would consider you one of the wise ones. We never interacted though as I only posted 3-4 times a few years ago. Didn’t know you were over here.

 

[thepipisreal]

Haha but yeah, totally makes sense. Best to get as much info from as many places you can and honestly between here and there, that’s probably my top 2 recommendations for your situation. Knowledgeable people on both.

The good part about finding help from someone here is that they are more likely to be experienced with all forms of PEDs including extensive knowledge on new peptides and other potential helpful ways to optimize HRT. There’s so much change happening in the world of human enhancement it’s hard to keep up so it’s good to have a group of knowledgeable people to discuss this stuff with.

Exactly, and as you said people here are clearly more comfortable using a wider array of tools to potentially fine tune their protocol.

EM has some really knowledgeable people (I think @Type-IIx has just started posting there as well), but are just now starting to scratch the surface when it comes to using certain options that are not necessarily prescribable, and given how complex a system we're dealing with I want to make sure I'm learning about everything that could possibly help.