TRT - blood work results on 75mg Test Cyp, E3D

[tenpoundsleft]

Just got my blood work results back. Blood was taken at the morning before the pin, so about 65 hours after last pin.

This was taken about 2.5 months of being on a TRT dose of 75mg E3D (Alpha-Pharma, Test Cyp) after being on Test Cyp and Tren for a couple months prior to that.

I'm also taking these:
* Metformin 850mg morning and evening ED - glucophage
* Doxazosin 1mg ED - primarily for the prostate
* Anastrazole 0.25mg E3D

Detailed results below, some comments:
* My WBC is slightly low - 2.9 - odd, never happened before
* As usual (since my 20s) my RBC is borderline and my hemoglobin and hematocrit are high
* LDL is slightly high - 112 - perhaps remnant from the Tren run - on basic TRT it's been around 80 in the past IIRC
* T4 = 7
* T3 = 34
* Total test = 934 - I was shooting for around 1,000 - and blood was taken at the morning before the pin, so ~65 hours after last pin - peak value probably a couple hundred higher?
* Free test = 32
* PSA = 0.6 - this is nice, this is below where it was when I started on TRT , the Doxazosin must work
* IGF-1 = 146 - decent for my age group?
* E2 = 33.7 - a bit higher than I expected, but I didn't notice any sides (in my case water retention starts in my left ankle and general sappiness strikes prior to that)

Overall, other than the slightly high LDL, and the puzzling WBC, I'm pretty pleased with the results, what I was aiming for, and I have also felt well dialled in - great sleep for example. Weaker in the gym compared to earlier when I was on Tren with Var or Drol as "PWO" supps obviously...

Comments?

Stats: 53 going on 54 (March), 6' even, ~210lbs, and ~13% BF






@Docd187123
Here are my results - despite your pinko tendencies, I still respect you in the morning.

 

[Docd187123]

Well at least you let me shower in the morning to clean up....

1) I wouldn't worry about WBC unless it's a chronic thing.

2) same with RBC. You're not at a critical level yet

3) LDL could be bc of the tren you're right. When was your last blood test?

4) T4 and TSH look fine. T3 is really T3 uptake not serum T3. T3 uptake is worthless IMO.

5) I think you're a little high for TRT. You could keep everything you want progress wise with slightly lower, potentially healthier, levels

6) don't trust free test results. There's several places for error. Getting SHBG tested THEN calculating free test from that is better.

7) PSA and IGF look great

8) E2 looks fine.

 

[Raven101]

How old are you?
Doxasosin doesnt lower the psa, it relaxes the muscles in the prostate to increase urine flow. Do you have an enlarged prostate or syptoms?
Your T levels are too high. I would lower the dose to 50 mgs every 3 days. Your dht levels will increase big time when your t levels are 900. Thats too darn high. To stay at those levels long term is not healthy especially for your prostate and red blood cell count.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

How old are you?
Doxasosin doesnt lower the psa, it relaxes the muscles in the prostate to increase urine flow. Do you have an enlarged prostate or syptoms?
Your T levels are too high. I would lower the dose to 50 mgs every 3 days. Your dht levels will increase big time when your t levels are 900. Thats too darn high. To stay at those levels long term is not healthy especially for your prostate and red blood cell count.

53 going on 54 - it's at the end of the post above.

I know the Doxazosin doesn't impact the PSA as such, but my doc said that it is good for my prostate overall. He recommends it for TRT patients. (And when I looked it up, seems like it mildly reduces BP too.) In any case, the 0.4 is good, I've been at 3.6 in the past, but that was after or during an illness. No prostate issues, not now or in the past. I'm usually btw 0.8 and 1.4

I was on 60mg of Test Cyp 2x per week on my doctor TRT, and pharma grade test. I upped it slightly to 75mg E3D when I switch to the Alpha-pharma UGL test Cyp. Looks like the Alpha-pharma stuff is pharma strength so I can drop back to 60mg E3D.

Thanks for the input

 

[Raven101]

Thats interesting about BP.. bph drugs not only help the prostate, it also helps with the blodd pressure a bit. I use flomax.

 

[KeithO]

How old are you?
Doxasosin doesnt lower the psa, it relaxes the muscles in the prostate to increase urine flow. Do you have an enlarged prostate or syptoms?
Your T levels are too high. I would lower the dose to 50 mgs every 3 days. Your dht levels will increase big time when your t levels are 900. Thats too darn high. To stay at those levels long term is not healthy especially for your prostate and red blood cell count.

Just curious why having T levels in the upper range of normal is dangerous?

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Just curious why having T levels in the upper range of normal is dangerous?

Yeah, I don't get that either, I'm peaking right around 1,000 or so.

Also, why is DHT bad? Read here :
The Facts And Myths About: DHT!

I don't get gyno symptoms, no MPB problems, no acne.

 

[KeithO]

Yeah, I don't get that either, I'm peaking right around 1,000 or so.

Also, why is DHT bad? Read here :
The Facts And Myths About: DHT!

I don't get gyno symptoms, no MPB problems, no acne.

I've been bald for 20 years. My psa, CBC and lipids are all good

 

[Eman]

Just curious why having T levels in the upper range of normal is dangerous?

@Michael Scally MD is there a round about testosterone level you would usually shoot for with patients?

 

[Docd187123]

Just curious why having T levels in the upper range of normal is dangerous?

Yeah, I don't get that either, I'm peaking right around 1,000 or so.

Also, why is DHT bad? Read here :
The Facts And Myths About: DHT!

I don't get gyno symptoms, no MPB problems, no acne.

Bc he has trough levels of 934 which would mean his peak is well over a 1000 most likely. High test can lead to BP, cholesterol/lipid, RBC, etc issues. Now that I think about it, your test levels being that high can be causing your LDL issues.

 

[Docd187123]

@Michael Scally MD is there a round about testosterone level you would usually shoot for with patients?

He typically aims for trough levels between 500-700ng/dL.

NV: And your goal is usually to have patients above what level?

MS: I like their total testosterone trough or lower level to be in the 500–700 range, normal being 300–1,000 ng/dL.

Dr. Michael Scally Talks About TRT and Steroid Side Effects, Part 1

 

[Eman]

He typically aims for trough levels between 500-700ng/dL.

NV: And your goal is usually to have patients above what level?

MS: I like their total testosterone trough or lower level to be in the 500–700 range, normal being 300–1,000 ng/dL.

Dr. Michael Scally Talks About TRT and Steroid Side Effects, Part 1

Thanks Scally.

Trough at 700 seems about right, 1,000 doesn't seem that crazy though for a peak.

 

[KeithO]

Someone run down this idea of trough and peak levels. If I inject cyp every 3.5 days and I run labs halfway between injections am I seeing peak or trough? I was under the impression that injecting twice weekly really reduced the peaks and valleys.

 

[Raven101]

Normal levels of dht is fine. High levels, which you probably have, will cause the prostate to grow faster. Trust me, you dont want that.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Bc he has trough levels of 934 which would mean his peak is well over a 1000 most likely. High test can lead to BP, cholesterol/lipid, RBC, etc issues. Now that I think about it, your test levels being that high can be causing your LDL issues.

Valid point - I'd probably see 1,200 or so if I'd done the blood work a day earlier, would you agree?

That Alpha-Pharma stuff appears to be indistinguishable from pharma grade, so I'll dial it down to 60mg E3D - from 75mg E3D - that should bring the peak below 1,000. (It's from Batch # TCX1401 in case anyone's interested. I'm on my last vial from that batch but I have several from #TBX15001.)

My diet is pretty clean - obviously nothing like BB contest prep clean - but I eat no junk, and my carbs are quality carbs. I eat with a heavy bias toward protein, slow fibers, and dark greens - with a varied intake of nuts and so-called superfoods too. So the likelihood of the test driving the LDL is likely. Before I started on TRT (3 or so years ago) my LDL and HDL were pretty much too low - I had borderline too little cholesterol, not good either. My diet hasn't changed that much since - other than eating more now since I'm heavier.

My RBC has always been high - I've given blood in several countries since I was around 22 years old. And unlike the retarded RC here in the US, in the other countries (Japan for example) they give you detailed results. The RC really should be forced to provide this to donors as well (forced because they have a de facto monopoly). I have hemochromatosis running in the family, but I've been tested for that and it's not the issue in my case. And I donated 500ml when I was in Thailand around Halloween - looks like I need to do it again.

I recently had a coronary CAT scan - showing 0% plaque buildup - so I don't know if LDL is really something I should be concerned with?

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Normal levels of dht is fine. High levels, which you probably have, will cause the prostate to grow faster. Trust me, you dont want that.

Wouldn't that show in the PSA numbers?

I'm really confused over DHT, especially after reading this The Facts And Myths About: DHT! article.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

3) LDL could be bc of the tren you're right. When was your last blood test?

6) don't trust free test results. There's several places for error. Getting SHBG tested THEN calculating free test from that is better.

3) Hmmm, I had a couple general health blood panels done in the second half of 2016, but my last TRT type panels were from June. (Didn't feel like doing any on cycle BW - and that my regular checkup panels were good enough. I don't have those results handy though.) I ended Tren around Nov 1 - so 2.5 months with no intake there - but that was my second Tren run last year so I don't know how long it takes for LDL/HDL to get back to "normal" levels?

6) Yeah, I know it's a derived number - so I paid more attention to the total test score. My TRT doc in Asia commented (based on the blood work that I did there) that I metabolize test really well. How do you determine that? Total test score in relation to amount of test taken? I've never pondered that too much - just focused on getting myself dialled in, but if you've got thoughts on that, would love to hear it.

 

[tenpoundsleft]

Someone run down this idea of trough and peak levels. If I inject cyp every 3.5 days and I run labs halfway between injections am I seeing peak or trough? I was under the impression that injecting twice weekly really reduced the peaks and valleys.

Yeah, I run E3D instead of E3.5D - which in reality fluctuates a bit since I sometimes take it in the morning, sometimes in the evening.

The following graph is probably more for natties, but here's how much it fluctuates naturally. Perhaps this is why some say that shorter esters and more frequent injections better mimic how the body naturally works - and that this is better for workouts?

Interestingly, I enjoy working out early in the mornings - around 8AM the best - coincidence?

 

[tenpoundsleft]

He typically aims for trough levels between 500-700ng/dL.

NV: And your goal is usually to have patients above what level?

MS: I like their total testosterone trough or lower level to be in the 500–700 range, normal being 300–1,000 ng/dL.

Dr. Michael Scally Talks About TRT and Steroid Side Effects, Part 1

Now, are those numbers based on the sweet spot from a performance/sides tradeoff calculation - or more based on a "if I recommend this level I won't lose any lawsuits" consideration? The latter is always at the back of my mind when I talk with medical professionals, they (and rightly so) are always quite concerned with lawsuits. As well as losing their prescription rights and/or license I guess?

 

[tenpoundsleft]

He typically aims for trough levels between 500-700ng/dL.

NV: And your goal is usually to have patients above what level?

MS: I like their total testosterone trough or lower level to be in the 500–700 range, normal being 300–1,000 ng/dL.

Dr. Michael Scally Talks About TRT and Steroid Side Effects, Part 1

Double-quoting here - after reading the Scally interview - which is really good btw.

Scally also said that "peak serum levels occur in 2–5 days after injection" which I interpret as my blood work results reflect a peak read more than a trough.

Since I do E3D, the frequency is probably optimal for Test C - so perhaps I could drop to 60mg E3D anyway.