TRT does NOT...

[mranak]

There was speculation that hCG showed some FSH activity in the body because the sertoli cells would un-artophy after usage of hCG. But now we know that the sertoli cells need two things: just a little bit of FSH and testosterone. Exogenous testosterone won't cut it due to the blood barrier in the testes. But hCG has the same alpha and beta subunits as LH, and LH stimulates the leydig cells to make testosterone, thus providing the sertoli cells with the testosterone they need.

 

[Random987]

Right. But HCG and exogeneous test will not create spermogenesis, correct? There needs to be some FSH, whether naturally occuring through the HPTA that is not "completely" shut down, or by HMG or some other FSH substitute.

There was speculation that hCG showed some FSH activity in the body because the sertoli cells would un-artophy after usage of hCG. But now we know that the sertoli cells need two things: just a little bit of FSH and testosterone. Exogenous testosterone won't cut it due to the blood barrier in the testes. But hCG has the same alpha and beta subunits as LH, and LH stimulates the leydig cells to make testosterone, thus providing the sertoli cells with the testosterone they need.

 

[Matt Muscle]

Right. But HCG and exogeneous test will not create spermogenesis, correct? There needs to be some FSH, whether naturally occuring through the HPTA that is not "completely" shut down, or by HMG or some other FSH substitute.

I would also like to know the answer to this. "Appropriate TRT is supposed to maintain adequate fertilty if the HPTA is not completely suppressed".. which must mean LH and FSH is still being produced at a sufficient level?
My levels of LH and FSH whilst I have been on TRT are under the measurable reading... so does this mean I am completely shut down?
My ejaculate levels are also very low which may also reflect a very low FSH production. I am using small amounts of HCG, however this has had little effect on improving this.
I have read many accounts of guys using clomid (and sometimes nolva) during TRT, and noticing vast improvement in ejaculate levels and teste size.. this must be the result of not only LH... But also FSH.
It is the sertoli cells that make up most of the mass of the teste.. and they are stimulated by FSH.. correct?

 

[1cc]

took me btween 2 and 3 months on the first 2 and 6 months on the most recent,my wife is 3 months pregnant. i was off everything for 6 months and no dice until i started using a little hcg believe it or not. my first 2 children were convieved after 6 monyths of being off as well. i did clomid for a 10 weeks and then waited a month or 2 without anything and bamm!!!!
anyway,without hcg,you would be sterile,although it comes back after cessation of TRT.
mxim

How much HCG and Clomid would one need to take for fertility purposes, if one stopped TRT?

 

[hackskii]

There was speculation that hCG showed some FSH activity in the body because the sertoli cells would un-artophy after usage of hCG. But now we know that the sertoli cells need two things: just a little bit of FSH and testosterone. Exogenous testosterone won't cut it due to the blood barrier in the testes. But hCG has the same alpha and beta subunits as LH, and LH stimulates the leydig cells to make testosterone, thus providing the sertoli cells with the testosterone they need.

I think this dude nailed it.
I read it takes testosterone produced by the testes that allow sperm to be manufactured.
I think this is the reason why guys get sterile on cycle, due to the nuts not producing any test.

 

[1cc]

At appropriate TRT doses, I do not believe HCG is necessary to maintain adequate fertility.

Why is it that many guys complain of testicular shrinkage when on TRT?

 

[HeadDoc]

Why is it that many guys complain of testicular shrinkage when on TRT?

this is both a psychological question and a physical question. The later is due to negative feedback to the testis once exogenous testosterone is introduced. I suspect you know this. It's the former that may be your inquiry. Many men who have been on trt without hcg or knowing about it just accept this as a side effect. My local pharmacist tells me that more and more men are getting hcg with their testosterone. (Which reminds me that I've got to go back and get the names of the physicans who are prescribing such). For some I'm sure the reason is purely aesthetic. There is a market even for artifical replacments--purely cosmetic. So self-esteem is involved. Could this not be comparable to a woman desiring reconstruction of her breast after mascetomy? It seems to me that with all the benefits of antiaging medicine from endocrinology and psychiatry people feel better and have more energy and a higher activity level through their 50's, 60's, 70's and beyond. During my last A4M seminar, I was in the hotel's gym at 6 am jogging on a treadmill next to a retired orthopedic surgeon in his 80's. This guy was bugging me for advice about ending his fourth marriage and looking for his next---he was also complaining to me about the cost of hgh. So if people feel better, have more energy, they probably want to look the part. It manifests for some an externalization of how they feel and the vitality they possess. I am not however ignoring that for some the changes are only cosmetic and do not reflect inner strength and vitality. For this group the cosmetic changes are a poor substitute for the inner development--these are the folks that plastic surgeons try to refer to me.

 

[Ruper]

Going back to the previous discussion I can confirm, for sure, that exogenous T + HCG does not make one sterile, even when FSH is below the lab detectability threshold.

I can also confirm that just becuase one's wife has medical issues and doesn't think she could possibly get pregnant, does NOT mean she is correct.

 

[deadlifter405]

Congratulations Ruper!